We are welcoming back today a longtime friend of the show, Benjamin Dixon, host of the Benjamin
Dixon Show, resident of the all important state of Georgia.
We are going to talk about what already happened in Georgia, what may happen on January 5th
then.
It's so good to see you, David, as always.
Good to see you.
Good to be back here sharing with you.
Congratulations on the million subscribers.
Thank you.
Million.
One million to now.
Right.
Well, listen, you're going to get there faster than I did it.
You're not there yet, but you're compressing my growth into less time, I'm sure.
I certainly hope so, because it already feels like it's been forever as it's been like six
years.
So but we're just still doing the work and excited about what's happening in Georgia.
Yeah.
So, I mean, let's just dove right into it.
First of all, you know, there were questions, will Texas go red?
I never.
I'm sorry.
Well, Texas go blue.
I never thought it would.
What's going to happen in Florida?
I thought it was kind of a question mark.
I did not think Georgia was the most likely to go to Joe Biden, but it did.
You followed it in a way that that I didn't from outside of the state.
Were you surprised?
No, I wasn't.
I was pleased.
I was thoroughly pleased.
But I knew the kind of work that was happening on the ground.
I knew the type of registrations that were happening.
New Georgia Project, which is affiliated with Stacey Abrams and a couple of other colleagues
of mine, New Georgia Project, registered half a million people of color alone in this cycle.
And so with those kind of numbers and that type of targeted push that I saw on the ground,
I suspected that Georgia would be blue.
I just didn't want to jinx it.
So I kept my fingers crossed.
So we've got these two Senate races and John Joseph, David Perdue, there's no more debates
there.
I almost had to call Atlanta police and report a murder after that first debate with Josephine
Perdue.
I mean, that's one of the most brutal debates I've ever seen.
And I understand why David Perdue is not debating.
We had the Lefler Warnaco debate on Sunday and she seemed to have a software malfunction
where she was repeating the same five things over and over, including the word socialist
and a radical leftist radical liberal, Raphael Warnock.
My instinct in my audience was this is so transparent, but we don't necessarily understand
the totality of the electorate in Georgia.
It's that type of repetition, actually, something that could win you a Senate race in Georgia.
No, no.
But what can win you a Senate race in Georgia is simply being complicit and part and parcel
with the power structure that Kelly Lefler represents and what she's trying to protect.
So they don't care how incompetent she is.
She's theirs.
She's that that's that's their that's their senator.
That's the person who they're going to vote for.
I mean, they voted for Donald Trump.
Right?
I know Joe Biden won, but there's still a lot of people in Georgia who support Trump
ism.
So do they support her malfunction because she did have a software malfunction, to be
sure?
No, they probably think she's she's bland as a Borg, but they're still going to vote
for her.
And in terms of voting at all, and this is something that I am just fascinated by.
On the one hand, early it was it's rigged, rigged, rigged, Trump really won, etc., which
would imply January 5th could maybe is also rigged.
And then you started seeing inklings of this.
Let's just boycott Republicans boycott if they're not going to count our votes anyway.
Let's just boycott, which, of course, is crazy because that will just hand the wins to to
the two Democratic candidates.
But lately, in Trump's rally, during the debate, you saw Lefler say it.
They're now focusing on the importance of getting out every vote.
Do you think that this boycott movement will have any impact?
Well, I will say that the Republicans here in the state of Georgia are pretty much like
the Republicans across the country.
They they're doing their best to hold it together while they figure out what the hell to do
with Donald Trump.
And that's happening in Georgia.
So people don't really know.
Republicans don't really know whether they are free to distance themselves from Donald
Trump.
Nobody is going to attack him, but they are afraid to distance themselves.
And so there's kind of a kerfuffle, right?
There's confusion, there's chaos.
There's dissent in Georgia, Republicans, we see some of them disagreeing with each other
publicly.
They're going in different directions in terms of strategy.
I think they are collapsing under the weight of Donald Trump's ego.
And I think that's going to have a huge effect in January.
And so but but as far as just like this idea of them staying home as some kind of solidarity
with the claims it was rigged, only a few percent need to do that for it to potentially
make a difference, given how close it's expected to be.
Right, because the special elections, the the special election on January 5th, the turnout
is going to be, by definition, lower.
Right.
It's a special election.
And so the margins are going to be that much more important.
So if they actually do manage to get like one percent, even just one percent of Georgia's
turnout, Republican turnout to stay home, then that could be the margin of difference
here I've been having.
Not really an argument, but kind of a disagreement about strategy with some in my audience where
last week I said, listen, for 10 years on this program, I've been saying increase civic
engagement.
Voting is is a step one, is only step one, but it is step one.
Increase turnout.
Overall, the left does better with more turnout.
And so I would not feel OK saying, hey, Republicans, you know, you really should stay home.
You really should boycott this thing, because I feel like at a higher level, it's not what
I'm about.
Now, some people in my audience wrote to me and they said, listen, David, if Democrats
take the Senate and Kamala Harris becomes the tie breaking vote, things will get done
that would not otherwise get done.
The country will be better off.
Isn't there some greater good in just this one time encouraging Republicans not to vote
even if you have to lie to them about the rigged stuff?
I can't get behind that.
Like I'm having a lot of trouble with that.
What's your thought on this idea?
No, no, no.
It's a great question because I'm actually I'm senior adviser for really American.
And they are running some really provocative ads in Georgia, billboards particularly.
They have billboards all over the state that are basically basically encouraging Republicans
to continue fighting each other.
Right.
And in a way, if you're not careful, it could have a suppressive effect against Republicans,
because if Republicans feel like they have a lot of infighting, they're more likely to
stay home.
I'm OK with that.
I and I 100 percent understand where you come from, David.
And I find myself struggling with that on a regular basis.
Well, let me clarify then, just to make sure I know what you're saying.
You're saying you're OK.
I'm OK with them staying home.
If they want to convince each other to stay home, that's great.
I'm not going to say, you know, you really should vote.
Where I sort of draw the line is participating in the encouragement to stay home because
it's rigged.
What we're participating and what my colleague at really American calls a truth telling campaign.
OK, what's what's this been?
It was a great spin.
So he said all we're doing is telling the truth about what's going on in the Georgia
Republican Party.
I think the people of Georgia have the right to understand the divisions that are happening
in the Republican Party.
So we're calling what we're doing a truth telling campaign.
And, you know, I know, you know, we could read between the lines.
We want to win Georgia.
And then you guys, you know, people who disagree with me, not you particularly, but you could
come after us afterwards.
We're going to we're going to win this race and and then and then we'll feel bad about
what we did afterward.
So you're confident about the two races?
I'm pretty pretty bullish on it.
I feel I feel that if everything falls in place, we could pull out a miracle.
It will be a miracle.
Right.
It's not going to be easy, but I think all the elements are in place.
And I think if everyone plays their cards right, we can get two seats.
And I know that's a stretch, but I'm willing to to to go out on the limb there.
Let's talk a little bit about the incoming Biden administration.
I said months ago, I will call it the way I see it.
If I see Joe Biden pick people that I think are problematic, I will tell you it won't
mean that I think I should have voted for Trump instead.
It will just mean I voted for the right person.
But they made some selections I didn't like so far.
The two that I am concerned about primarily are Neera Tanden.
Absolutely.
And Lloyd Austin.
And, you know, back in twenty seventeen, I said when Jim Mattis was selected, guys, we
have a rule about being out of the military seven years.
So what's the point of the rule if you can just get a congressional waiver and get around
that there's a reason that that rule is in place.
The exact same waiver is going to be necessary for Lloyd Austin, and I would be a hypocrite
if I didn't call it out.
He was involved in some of the mishandling of of the Iraq war in 2011.
And in twenty fourteen, this this is not a pic I love.
And to me, it strikes me as identity diversification without solving the structural problems.
Right.
Well, I mean, so there's always going to be David, there's always going to be an element
in the corporate Democratic wing that is more than happy to give us identity, you know,
because it is it is a it is instantly celebrated that this is a black guy who's going to lead
the Pentagon.
Right?
Well, Lloyd Austin.
Yep.
But, you know, we just take a break and breathe and look and say, oh, well, this is that guy.
And so I think it's you know, that's our job.
Our job is going to be to maneuver through the both of them using identity as a shield,
like, I think identity politics matters.
I want to make sure I say that I think identity politics matters because black people and
all kind of identities suffer identity specific problems in this country.
There are problems that black people go through simply because they are black LGBTQ.
I obviously, however, when the corporate Democrats use it as a shield against criticism, we have
to be able to maneuver through that and still bring a solid critique against their their
corporate corporatism and imperialism.
Right.
The phrase I've used is I value identity because of the insight it gives.
But where I stop is whether it's used as either a shield or a cudgel or a mallet to beat people
sort of over the head, and that's where the rational thinking seems to go out, right.
Well, and I agree with you.
I agree with you all the way to the point where I think that there are some situations
in this country that require a mallet to the head.
I think that there are some very stubborn situations in this country that are so intransigent
and malignant.
To be quite honest, racism is malignant in this country.
And if we need to go straight head to head with it, then fine.
But we have to be able to understand when it's time to recognize how identity politics,
just like any I mean, any other politics are used against you for powerful people to continue
getting their way into getting their agenda.
And we just have to know when that's happening with identity.
And interestingly, I mean, it's good you mention that because oftentimes class politicking
is also used in ways that it's just not identified as pernicious.
And with the phrase identity politics is being used.
You rarely hear that said about class politics, but it's used very frequently.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's class politics is an identity politics that I get down with.
I'm like I'm down like four flat tires with class politics as well as race, racial politics.
But I agree with you, right?
It is.
If you're not careful, there's an element of of a class critique that itself can become
a cudgel.
It could become a bludgeoning tool.
It could become a weaponized way to ignore logic and reason.
Right.
So we just have to be careful that anything that we really believe in can be weaponized
against us.
If we're if we if we give it a free pass and not and we're not willing to critique it truthfully
and in good faith.
So who do you like that Joe Biden has selected so far?
Nobody, nobody.
No, Nancy, I'm really trying to think of any Sedrick I forget Sedgwick's last name, the
congressman who had that brilliant exchange with Matt Gates about his son.
I can't think of Sedgwick's last name, but he's OK.
I'm not I'm honestly, I'm not excited about any of this because I am.
What I have decided to do with Joe Biden is to let him make his play, let him make his
point.
I can't control who he picks, no matter how much commentary we give.
We can't control who he picks.
But we can decide what type of opponent we have in the White House is the opponent that
we have to oppose with all of our energy or is the opponent that we need to keep an eye
on because he made some bad picks and we need to keep an eye on what they're going to do.
I think he's going to fall into that latter category.
Yeah, I mean, I've said that I dug back into some of Janet Yellen economic writing from
the 90s where she was like an academic economist.
She's she's pretty brilliant.
And I mean, it's like, listen, she's going to she's going to run the Treasury and she
believes in monetary policy, you know, like that that we would expect that Joe Biden's
going going to pick somebody like that.
Yeah, but things like her fair wage hypothesis from nineteen ninety, which I would definitely
check out if you've not read it, a very, very interesting stuff.
She is quite brilliant and at least I think she will not stand in the way.
If Joe Biden can otherwise get consensus and political capital to get things done, I don't
think she'll stand in the way of anything he's he campaigned on.
Whether he'll do it is a different question.
Yeah.
And I think that's that is the million dollar question.
Right.
So what does Joe Biden really want to do?
The rest of this is on the periphery, right?
He's going to do a lot of things because there's a lot of people in a lot of departments who
have their own agendas and he's going to filter through them and they'll get whatever their
agenda is done.
Right.
Which is why I'm really leery about the possibility of Rahm Emanuel, because I just kind of have
a feeling I know what this guy wants.
And it's never been anything good for black people or poor people.
That said, with everyone else Joe Biden is picking, I want to see what Joe Biden actually
wants, because what he actually wants is what he's going to put his energy behind.
David, I'm afraid that what he really wants is bipartisanship with Republicans.
I think his initial goal might be bipartisanship.
And then then that is somebody I have to take a pretty good stand against.
But, yeah, that's completely naive.
I mean, you elected him, though.
I'm still glad we elected him.
Of course.
Yeah.
No, but the idea that you're going to get things done with the help of this Republican
Party, it seems like the height of naivete.
Yes.
And I don't know if Joe Biden I think possibly what Joe Biden it could be sincere naivete.
I think what people around him who always triangulate with Republicans, I think it is
intentional because they probably identify with Republicans more than they they do progressives.
But with Joe Biden, I don't know, the jury's still out.
I think he actually believes that bipartisanship is the greater good.
Yeah, we will I think we'll know relatively quickly is the upside.
I think by March 1st, we'll have a pretty good sense of whether he really believes that.
Ben Dixon, the Benjamin Dixon Show.
So you've got the audio podcast, you've got the Facebook and the YouTube channel, and
you seem to have like a dozen ancillary shows that I regularly am catching streams of.
So like what what's the hub where people can what's the best place?
I mean, you know what?
They honestly can go to the YouTube channel right here on YouTube, subscribe on YouTube.
Give us a please, sir.
Could we have some more subscribers, David?
Can we have some more of your subscribers?
You know, the beautiful thing about YouTube subscribers is like when me when Sam Ceder
and I were having this fake war to a million.
Yeah, it's not zero sum.
It's not you have one subscription subscription and you either give it to Sam or to Ben or
to David.
You can generate subscriptions infinitely just by subscribing to more than one channel.
So I always say spread the wealth around.
Hey man, I appreciate that.
That's why I broke with David and David.
For everyone who doesn't know, David has been rocking with my show since I started my show.
Like maybe six months after I started my show, David contacted me.
So, man, I appreciate everything that you've done to help me in this journey.
My my pleasure.
And let's let's do it again very soon.
Sounds good.
Take of.
The David Pakman Show at David Pakman Dotcom.