JASON JOHNSON, THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.
WE ARE STAYING WITH THIS
BREAKING NEWS FROM THE "NEW YORK
TIMES" TONIGHT.
TIMES" TONIGHT. THE "TIMES" HAS JUST POSTED A
PORTION OF AUDIO OF THEIR
INTERVIEW, EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
IN THE OVAL OFFICE WITH
PRESIDENT TRUMP TONIGHT.
HERE IS THE PRESIDENT TALKING
WITH PETER BAKER ABOUT NANCY
PELOSI AND THE FIGHT OVER THE
BORDER WALL.
BORDER WALL. >> I THINK NANCY PELOSI IS
HURTING OUR COUNTRY VERY BADLY
BY DOING WHAT SHE’S DOING.
AND ULTIMATELY I THINK I’VE SET
THE TABLE VERY NICELY.
I THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTAND.
WELL, THEY UNDERSTAND, PETER,
THEY DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING
ON AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER.
NOW THEY KNOW.
THEY HAD NO IDEA THE AMOUNT OF
CRIME, THE AMOUNT OF DRUGS, THE
AMOUNT OF HUMAN TRAFFICKING,
WHICH CAN BE STOPPED WITH THE
PROPER SYSTEM.
PROPER SYSTEM. I’VE SET THE TABLE.
I’VE SET THE STAGE FOR DOING
WHAT I’M GOING TO DO.
>> YOU’RE GOING TO WAIT OUT 21
DAYS --
DAYS -- >> YEAH, I’M GOING TO WAIT TILL
THE 15th.
THE 15th. I THINK IT’S A WASTE OF TIME.
>> THAT AUDIO WAS JUST RELEASED
BY THE "NEW YORK TIMES."
IT’S JUST A PORTION OF THEIR
INTERVIEW WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP
TONIGHT.
TONIGHT. AND TODAY THE PRESIDENT ADMITTED
SOMETHING THAT NO PRESIDENT
BEFORE HIM EVER HAS.
THE PRESIDENT HAS GIVEN UP.
PRESIDENTS ARE NEVER SUPPOSED TO
GIVE UP.
GIVE UP. THEY ARE ALWAYS SUPPOSED TO
CONTINUE TO TRY TO GOVERN TO THE
BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES AND TO
PUSH THE COUNTRY AND THE
CONGRESS IN THE DIRECTION THEY
THINK WE SHOULD GO.
BUT TODAY THE PRESIDENT SAID
HE’S GIVEN UP ON TRYING TO MAKE
A DEAL WITH CONGRESS ABOUT HIS
BORDER WALL.
BORDER WALL. HE ALSO SAID THAT IN HIS "NEW
YORK TIMES" INTERVIEW TONIGHT.
OF COURSE THE PRESIDENT WILL BE
CHALLENGED IN COURT IF HE TRIES
TO DECLARE A NATIONAL EMERGENCY
TO BUILD HIS WALL.
THIS MORNING ON "MORNING JOE"
CONGRESSMAN ADAM SCHIFF SAID
THAT HE THINKS HE KNOWS WHAT
EXHIBIT A WILL BE IN THAT COURT
FIGHT.
FIGHT. >> THE FACT THAT NONE OF THE
INTEL CHIEFS BROUGHT UP A THREAT
AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER AS BEING
ONE OF THE MOST PRESSING THREATS
FACING THE COUNTRY, THAT COULD
BE EXHIBIT A IN A CHALLENGE TO
ANY KIND OF A DECLARATION OF A
NATIONAL EMERGENCY, THE FACT
THAT NONE OF OUR INTELLIGENCE
AGENCIES THINK IT’S AN
EMERGENCY, THE FACT THAT
CONGRESS ON BOTH PARTIES DON’T
THINK THIS IS AN EMERGENCY.
I THINK IF ANYTHING THIS IS
GOING TO UNDERMINE THE LEGAL
CASE THE PRESIDENT IS GOING TO
TRY TO MAKE.
THAT HEARING YESTERDAY COULD BE
A CENTRAL EXHIBIT.
>> JOINING OUR DISCUSSION NOW,
ELIZABETH GOTEEN, CO-DIRECTOR OF
THE LIBERTY AND NATIONAL
SECURITY PROGRAM AT THE BRENNAN
CENTER FOR JUSTICE.
ALSO WITH US, MARIA TERESA
KUMAR, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF
VOTER LA TEEN A&E AND AN MSNBC
CONTRIBUTOR.
CONTRIBUTOR. I’D LIKE TO START WITH YOU.
YOU’VE WRITTEN ABOUT THE
PRESIDENT’S AUTHORITY TO USE THE
NATIONAL EMERGENCY ACT TO TRY TO
GO IN HERE AND BUILD THE WALL.
WHAT DO WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
THAT?
THAT? >> THE NATIONAL EMERGENCIES ACT
WAS PASSED IN 1976.
IT GIVES THE PRESIDENT
INCREDIBLY BROUGHT DISCRETION TO
DECLARE A NATIONAL EMERGENCY.
THERE’S NO DEFINITION OF
NATIONAL EMERGENCY IN THE
STATUTE.
STATUTE. THERE’S NO CRITERIA HE HAS TO
MEET.
MEET. AND ONCE HE DECLARES THAT
EMERGENCY THE SPECIAL PROVISIONS
OF ABOUT 123 DIFFERENT LAWS
BECOME AVAILABLE TO HIM.
AND THOSE LAWS GIVE HIM
SOMETIMES VERY EXTRAORDINARY
POWERS TO DO THINGS IN ALL AREAS
OF GOVERNMENT, RANGING FROM
MILITARY DEPLOYMENT TO
AGRICULTURE TO COMMUNICATIONS.
AND SO IT REALLY IS AN
INCREDIBLY POWERFUL STATUTE WITH
VERY FEW CHECKS AND BALANCES.
>> BUT ISN’T IT ALL WRITTEN IN
THE ANTICIPATION THAT THE
PRESIDENT HAS TO HAVE EMERGENCY
POWERS WHEN A RESPONSE IS
NECESSARY AND CONGRESS IS
UNAVAILABLE TO IN ANY WAY
RESPOND ITSELF?
RESPOND ITSELF? >> THAT’S EXACTLY RIGHT.
THE WHOLE POINT OF EMERGENCY
POWERS IS NOT TO DISPLACE
CONGRESS OR GET AROUND THE WILL
OF CONGRESS.
OF CONGRESS. IT’S TO GIVE THE PRESIDENT A
LITTLE MORE FLEXIBILITY IN
SITUATIONS WHERE A CRISIS IS
UNFOLDING SO QUICKLY THAT
CONGRESS REALLY HAS NO TIME TO
ACT.
ACT. SO THESE ARE AUTHORITIES THAT
CONGRESS HAS GRANTED IN ADVANCE
FOR THOSE SITUATIONS WHEN THINGS
ARE JUST UNFOLDING SO FAST.
AND IN A SITUATION WHERE
CONGRESS HAS PLENTY OF TIME
BECAUSE PRESIDENT TRUMP KEEPS
SAYING I’M GOING TO GIVE
CONGRESS MORE TIME, MORE TIME.
AND THEN NOT ONLY HAS THAT TIME
BUT ACTUALLY VOTES NOT TO GIVE
THE PRESIDENT THIS KIND OF
AUTHORITY.
AUTHORITY. THEN IT’S JUST A TREMENDOUS
ABUSIVE EMERGENCY POWERS.
AND I THINK IN THIS SITUATION
QUITE LIKELY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. BECAUSE THEN THE PRESIDENT IS
JUST TRYING TO GET AROUND A
NEGATIVE VOTE BY CONGRESS.
CONGRESS HAS VOTED AGAINST WHAT
HE WANTS TO DO WITH THE
EMERGENCY POWER.
EMERGENCY POWER. >> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. AND ARTICLE 1 OF THE
CONSTITUTION IS VERY CLEAR THE
PRESIDENT CANNOT SPEND FUNDS
THAT CONGRESS HAS NOT
APPROPRIATED.
APPROPRIATED. SO IT’S VERY MUCH AN ABUSE OF
POWER.
POWER. THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOU KNOW,
THIS LAW, THE NATIONAL
EMERGENCIES ACT, IS WRITTEN SO
INCREDIBLY BROADLY, WITHOUT THE
CHECKS AND BALANCES THAT WE
NEED, AND SO IT’S GOING TO END
UP BEING A VERY LONG, VERY
PITCHED BATTLE IN THE COURTS,
AND I’D LIKE TO SAY THAT THE
OUTCOME IS CERTAIN AND THAT THE
COURTS WILL DO THE RIGHT THING,
BUT I THINK YOU KNOW, IT’S GOING
TO BE UP TO THIS SUPREME COURT
WITH FIVE VERY CONSERVATIVE
JUSTICES WHO HAVE SHOWN A