good evening from new york i'm chris hayes day two of the
criminal trial donald trump and today we heard in great
detail how trump and his gang conspired to hide all his were
secret well at least some of them both trump and his lawyer
continue to stretch the patients of judge wong were
shot
the morning started with a hearing on the gag order that
judge had already issued which trump has repeatedly and
flagrantly been violating on social media and elsewhere
we'll have more on that later in the show but suffice to say
the entire event was a huge embarrassment for trump's
attorney todd blanche
like every trump employee blanched once an assistant us
attorney for the southern district of new york was forced
to repeatedly debase himself and service of his boss
because if you agree to work for trump the threshold
qualifications to be the kind of person who only cares first
and foremost about pleasing him rather than dwell doing your
job
in fact in his opening statements on monday blanched
went out of his way to let everyone know he was speaking
to an audience of one he insisted on referring to his
client colonel defendant private citizen as president
trump and then saying quote you're going to hear me refer
to him as president trump this is a title he has earned
because he was our forty-fifth president we will call him
president trump out of respect for the office he held from
twenty seventeen to twenty twenty-one
but as we saw today as we will likely continue to see as we've
seen in many many different venues in many different
situations pleasing donald trump
and doing your job in this case providing the best legal
representation
awfully you often a mutually exclusive choice
that theme continued when longtime publisher the
national enquirer david packer took the stand again this
afternoon for second day of testing
packer al on how well running the national enquirer he
worked for trump and michael cohn to both suppress negative
stories about the then presidential candidate and to
plant negative and presumably baseless stories about trump's
political opponents
michael cohen would call me and say we would like for you to
run a negative article on let's say for argument's sake
on ted cruz that he would send me information about ted cruz
or ben carson or about marco rubio that was the basis of
our story that we would embellish from there
upon further questioning clarified quit michael cohen
wasn't part of the campaign when he said we i thought he
was talking about himself mister trump
sounds like packer believe that he was acting at the direction
of donald trump when you publish stories like this about
texas senator ted cruz who challenge trump in twenty
sixteen primary having extramarital affairs with
multiple women five secret mistresses actually
or this story remember this one this one day got a little
bit of attention which packer admitted to making up linking
cruz's father to that john f kennedy assassination but i
want
of course the substance of this trial is about what the
umpire did not publish as part of its practice in the tabloid
world known as catch and kill during which it help suppress
stories about trump's own affairs culminating in a twenty
fifteen meeting between packer trump and call
tonight a person familiar with the matter tells nbc news
in august twenty fifteen canada trump was in the room
when cohen a national enquirer publisher david packer
discussed ways packers company am i could help quash negative
stories about mister trump's relationships with women
that was from twenty eighteen when that meeting was
first reported according to packer in that twenty fifty
meeting in august he told trump michael cohen quote
i said that anything like here in the marketplace if i hear
anything negative about yourself or hear anything about
women selling stories i would notify michael cohn and i did
over the last several years i would notify michael cohn and
then he would be able to have them kill in another magazine
where have the not be published or somebody would have to
purchase them
today's testimony into with something of a cliffhanger as
packer began to outline the plan to pay off playboy model
karen mcdougal to cover up her own story of an affair with
trump according to packers testimony one of his editors
approach in the spring of twenty sixteen about mcdougal
with the understanding that she wanted someone to purchase and
bury the story of her affair
becker says he contacted michael cohn consistent on
communicating through encrypted app
cohen apparently grew increasingly agitated as
packers editor work to vet mcdougal story with packer
saying quote he kept on calling each time he called he
seem more anxious
adding quote i assume you have the conversation mister
crump and mister trump is asking michael cohn did we
hear anything yet
packer also testified that trump called him directly about
the mcdougal story with the then candidate saying quote
i spoke to michael unquote he told me about karen and
trump said to me what do you think
packer said he told trump to purchase the mcdougal story
the former editor will resume his testimony on thursday
we have the day off tomorrow for the trial but we already
know how this story ends enquirer paid mcdougal hundred
fifty grand for the rights to her story and her silence
but
here's the astronauts were just great trump was supposed to
repay packer backer wasn't just like doing this is
charity he was the the past through if you will
but trump did what he always does he stiffed him on the
bill hundred fifty thousand dollars
which is why michael cohen was a one forced to pay stormy
daniels out of his own pocket
that of course is by trump
was ultimately in court today
it's written as an msnbc legal correspondent has been watching
from inside the courtroom andrew rice also in the
courtroom today zoraida or your magazine we just profiled
trump's defense attorney todd blanche in a new cover story
and they join me now great to have you both here we just
start top one impressions from the day today lisa
so my top line impression is that david packer has a whole
lot to say one of the things that he said at the very
beginning was he was asked how often he communicated with
trump and he said after trump became a candidate the
conversations increase not decrease you'd expect a
presidential candidate we get so busy that they wouldn't
really have time for the old friend david packer and yet
they still found time to meet once a month talked on the
phone or roughly once a week and sometimes more we heard
about two of those conversations today bookended
sort of the beginning of the end of the testimony that
august two thousand fifteen meeting that you talked about
and that phone call during two thousand sixteen about karen
mcdougal having been vetted and what trump wanted to know about
that conversation i have to assume there are a lot more
conversations that david packer had directly with donald trump
and that the prosecution is going to elicit testimony about
them in the ensuing days and your what you think
i mean i thought the most relevant thing to to watch was
actually sort of that the ongoing dichotomy between
what's going on inside the courtroom what's happening
outside the courtroom in and i think that and when it
came under relief really went at the beginning of the day
when there's a hearing about whether donald trump is going
to be held in contempt for some of the things that he had said
entrees social about witnesses you about a juror yeah
he's and and and ty blach the guy that i i profiled the story
got up and said you know that that our client has a right to
talk about the two systems of justice that are being shown
here in this courtroom and i think that's something that
we're going to see a lot which is basically donald trump is
not if you can win an acquittal or if you can win a mistrial
that's great for him but he's running against the system
well okay let me follow up on that because blanche also
one point says to rush out and we're going to talk about this
a second and more in greater detail what he says like he's
doing his best or something like where we're trying our
best and that summer sean says like you're losing
credibility like come on buddy what is blanche is angle
here like if it is the case that your understanding of
trump's approach to this is not
primarily is legal but it's primarily about this sort of
making this broader case in the court of public opinion
it is is blanche on board with that strategy
well i think that
land is ultimately trying to and they've been made it very
clear they're hoping to find a juror one juror a really will
muscled out and won't vote to convict trump and on they're
hoping for a mistrial and if there's a mistrial course
donald trump will will go out on the court reversed a
courthouse steps and say i've been completely exonerated even
here in new york and and and so that's that's their
strategy ultimately the back and forth with the judge which
is happening outside of the presence of the jury has not
bled into the trial right too much but it's going to be
interesting dynamic to watch
yeah it in terms of this you know the packer testimony
and the notion of this troubling one of the things
that
just going back to the transcripts this is just sort
of striking me again made this such an obvious point but just
indulge me for a second is like you know sometimes you
have like in a classic sort of mystery courtroom drama
there's a question of like wasn't that person driving the
car did this actually happen
in this case like it's clear all this stuff happened
it's clear as day like is there any you'll doubt
but david packer met with michael cohen donald trump
that they set up the catch though i mean i guess you
could think the packers lying that michael cohen is lying and
that all that
but the basics of the story that's being presented here
just seemed to me but pretty much
that rock solid a little push back a lot a little
yeah i think that one of the things of the prosecution has
to establish and was surprising to many people the courtroom
is the extent of donald trump's own involvement here which of
course has the bar yeah it is necessary not only can text
early but to prove the crime the other thing is we all know
about what i'll call the kansas even story the set up of the
hush money payments the thing that the prosecutors have to
really prove though to show off occasion of business record
as a felony is that there was a cover up with the intent to
commit or conceal a crime and time donald trump expressly
to that i think is something that none of us have really
seen their evidence about yet and
we're all looking for
totally but i guess my point is that on this part of
light which is not the criminal part it's just like
did this arrangement happen it just seems clear that it did
happen i mean again i'm not in the jury but just from the
reporting we have from the testimony from and i also
wonder also because i can't quite get it from the
transcript
from the transcript packer seems pretty comfortable in
forthcoming as a witness how would you describe i
thought that it was you know maybe maybe i'm naive but i
but i thought it was pretty shocking to hear him talk with
sight touch a total frankness yeah exactly that's what
comes on a tour of the of the relationship that he had with
donald trump and he actually can't quite candidly said on
the stand that this was not normal this wasn't this one
even by the standards of national choir these
transactions were not normal day had a very special
relationship with donald trump that they had forged and
donna they wanted to see donald trump elected president
and they were acting sort of as an adjunct arm of the campaign
and that i mean this is has nothing to do with the criminal
trial per se but just as disclosures go the part about
the seating negative stories like he would just send us
stuff and we like that is shocking and would be in any
other league media enterprise unbelievable scandal and also
gives you a little sense of how donald trump projects his view
of the media
like his view of the media being like the they all
function like that because that's what
cracking choir did from a yeah i mean i think the other
thing that's sort of what was lost until today is what is
david packer getting out of this and then complimenting him
praising donald trump that's what made his testimony so
damn and he said he was the top celebrity among enquirer
readers that he was knowledgeable about his
business that he was detail oriented micro managerial
all the things that he said about donald trump that were
complimentary
our eventually going to be his doom as packer tells a
story and also is a little bit of a time machine think about
going back to the apprentice has a hit show and like i'm
trying to sell magazines vanna this guy's got a big
showing where and he moves products wrecked we need to be
close and lisa rubin and andrew rice was great thank
you very much