THE UK HAS SPENT MORE THAN $500
MILLION TO HELP UKRAINE DEAL
WITH A GROWING HUMANITARIAN
CRISIS.
BUT BRITAIN, ALONG WITH THE
UNITED STATES AND THE REST OF
NATO, IS FACING GROWING CALLS TO
DO MORE.
JOINING ME NOW IS THE BRITISH
AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES,
KAREN PIERCE.
AMBASSADOR PIERCE, THANK YOU FOR
COMING TO "THE SUNDAY SHOW."
>> THANKS VERY MUCH FOR HAVING
ME.
>> SURE.
LET'S LISTEN TO WHAT PRESIDENT
ZELENSKYY SAID ABOUT NATO THIS
MORNING ON CNN, AND I'LL GET
YOUR REACTION ON THE OTHER SIDE.
>> THERE CANNOT BE ANY ULTIMATUM
FROM ANY COUNTRY WHATSOEVER TO
ANOTHER COUNTRY.
I TOLD THEM THAT WE ARE RUNNING
OUT OF TIME.
YOU HAVE TO ADMIT UKRAINE INTO
NATO RIGHT NOW.
WE DO NOT HAVE MUCH TIME.
YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT UKRAINE AS A
MEMBER OF EU.
WE DESERVE THIS ALLIANCE.
UKRAINE CANNOT SAY THAT IT IS
NOT GOING TO JOIN NATO.
NATO IS SAYING THAT IT IS NOT
GOING TO ADMIT UKRAINE.
>> AND SO, AMBASSADOR PIERCE,
YOUR REACTION TO PRESIDENT
ZELENSKYY SAYING ONCE AGAIN, WE
SHOULD BE A PART OF NATO, WE
SHOULD BE PART OF THE EU?
>> IT SOUNDS A VERY BORING
ANSWER, BUT THERE ARE PROCEDURES
TO GET INTO NATO, PROCEDURES 0
TO GET INTO THE EU AND UKRAINE
HASN'T QUALIFIED, DOESN'T
QUALIFY AT THE MOMENT.
BUT WHAT WE ARE DOING IS TRYING
TO HELP UKRAINE DEFEND ITSELF.
WE'RE SENDING LOTS OF ANTI-TANK
AND DEFENSIVE WEAPONS THERE.
WE ARE PUTTING ECONOMIC PRESSURE
ON RUSSIA TO DEGRADE RUSSIA'S
ABILITY TO FIGHT A WAR AGAINST
UKRAINE.
>> HAS PRIME MINISTER BORIS
JOHNSON BEEN IN TOUCH WITH
PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY OR WITH
PRESIDENT PUTIN SINCE ZELENSKYY
SPOKE WITH BRITISH PARLIAMENT?
>> YES, THE PRIME MINISTER
SPEAKS TO ZELENSKYY EVERY DAY.
THEY ESTABLISHED A GOOD WARM
RELATIONSHIP.
ALSO THE PRIME MINISTER CALLS TO
GIVE HIM A BOOST TO SHOW WE'RE
THINKING OF HIM, WE HAVEN'T
FORGOTTEN UKRAINE.
WE CONTINUE TO LOOK FOR WAYS TO
HELP UKRAINE AT THIS DIFFICULT
MOMENT.
PRESIDENT PUTIN, THE PRIME
MINISTER SPOKE TO A COUPLE OF
WEEKS AGO, I DON'T THINK THERE
WOULD BE ANYTHING MORE RECENT
THAN THAT, BUT HE KEEPS IN TOUCH
WITH A LOT OF WORLD LEADERS
AROUND EUROPE AND, OF COURSE,
HERE.
>> HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU AND
BRITISH INTELLIGENCE AND THE
BRITISH GOVERNMENT ABOUT TODAY'S
NEWS, THE RUSSIANS ANNOUNCING
THEY HAVE CONDUCTED NOT ONE, BUT
TWO HYPERSONIC MISSILE ATTACKS
ON UKRAINE?
>> WELL, OF COURSE, ONE IS
CONCERNED.
THE INVASION SHOULDN'T HAVE
HAPPENED TO START WITH.
>> TRUE.
>> THE RUSSIANS HAVE TAKEN NO
ACCOUNT OF CIVILIANS.
THIS IS WHY PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT
THEY MAY HAVE COMMITTED WAR
CRIMES, AND THAT ALL NEEDS
INVESTIGATING.
SO, YES, WE ARE WORRIED.
HYPERSONIC MISSILES, THEY'RE A
NEW CATEGORY OF MISSILE.
WE DON'T YET KNOW ALL THE
CONSEQUENCES OF USING MISSILES
LIKE THAT.
BUT FUNDAMENTALLY, THE REAL
PROBLEM IS THAT RUSSIA IS IN
UKRAINE WITH ITS MILITARY IN THE
FIRST PLACE.
>> I PICKED UP ON A BIT OF
LANGUAGE THAT YOU USED THERE
ABOUT PUTIN BEING ACCUSED OF WAR
CRIMES.
PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS SAID
FLAT-OUT THAT PUTIN IS A WAR
CRIMINAL.
SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY
BLINKEN ALSO SAID THE SAME
THING.
HAS PRIME MINISTER JOHNSON NOT
GONE THAT FAR?
DOES HE NOT BELIEVE THAT
PRESIDENT PUTIN IS A WAR
CRIMINAL?
>> WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER HAS
SAID IS THAT WHAT'S HAPPENED ON
THE GROUND IN UKRAINE MAY WELL
AMOUNT TO WAR CRIMES.
AND FOR THAT REASON WE'VE
SPONSORED A DECISION AT THE
INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT TO
LAUNCH AN INVESTIGATION INTO
WHAT'S HAPPENED ON THE GROUND.
IF I MAY, JONATHAN, I DO WANT TO
STRESS ONE POINT, IT'S THAT IT
WON'T JUST BE PRESIDENT PUTIN
WHO WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR WAR
CRIMES.
IT'S THAT'S WHAT THE
INVESTIGATION SHOWS, IT WILL BE
EVERY SINGLE RUSSIAN GENERAL
INVOLVED IN UKRAINE.
THEY WILL BE PERSONALLY
ACCOUNTABLE IF WAR CRIMES ARE
COMMITTED.
THAT'S A MATTER OF LAW.
IT'S NOT JUST MY OPINION.
>> MADAM AMBASSADOR, THEY HAVE
CONFIRMED REPORTS OF UKRAINIANS
BEING MOVED TO, QUOTE, UNQUOTE,
CAMPS INSIDE RUSSIA.
>> I SAW THOSE REPORTS INSIDE
THE PRESS.
I DON'T HAVE ANY INFORMATION
THAT WOULD CORROBORATE THAT.
OBVIOUSLY IF IT'S TRUE, IT'S
EXTREMELY CONCERNING.
>> WHAT SHOULD BRITAIN, THE
UNITED STATES, THE NATO ALLIANCE
DO IF PUTIN DOES, INDEED,
UNLEASH CHEMICAL, BIOLOGICAL
WEAPONS ON THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE?
>> WELL, THAT REALLY WOULD BE A
WAR CRIME, YOU KNOW.
CHEMICAL WEAPONS ARE PROHIBITED
AS A MATTER OF INTERNATIONAL
LAW.
THEY ARE UNIVERSALLY PROHIBITED.
AND IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY
SHOCKING IF A MEMBER OF THE
PERMANENT FIVE, MEMBERS OF THE
SECURITY COUNCIL AS RUSSIA IS,
THEY ARE MEANT TO UPHOLD
NONPROLIFERATION, MEANT TO
UPHOLD NO USE OF WEAPONS OF MASS
DESTRUCTION.
IT WILL BE ACROSS THE LINE IF
PUTIN DOES THAT.
>> IF PUTIN CROSSES THE LINE,
HOW SHOULD THE WEST RESPOND?
HOW SPECIFICALLY SHOULD THE WEST
RESPOND?
>> I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO WHAT
THE WEST MAY OR MAY NOT DO
BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE VALUABLE
INFORMATION FOR MR. PUTIN TO
HAVE.
BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU NATO, WORLD
LEADERS ON THE WESTERN SIDE, WE
LOOK AT A LOT OF THESE
CONTINGENCIES.
NATO LEADERS WILL MEET IN THE
COMING DAYS TO TALK ABOUT
VARIOUS SCENARIOS AND HOW
MORE -- WHAT MORE WE CAN DO TO
HELP UKRAINE.
>> HOW WORRIED IS BRITAIN THAT
PUTIN WILL END UP ATTACKING A
NATO COUNTRY?
WE ARE SEEING MORE ATTACKS ON
WESTERN UKRAINE COMING WITHIN
MILES OF THE BORDER BETWEEN
UKRAINE AND POLAND.
IS THERE CONCERN THAT NATO WILL
BE DRAGGED INTO THIS, INTO
RUSSIA'S WAR ON UKRAINE?
>> I THINK NATO, AS YOU KNOW,
HAS BEEN REALLY CAREFUL TO SHOW
IT IS NOT ESCALATING THIS WAR.
NATO REMAINS A DEFENSIVE
ALLIANCE.
PUTIN HAS NOTHING TO FEAR FROM
NATO UNLESS, AS YOU SAY, HE
ATTACKS IT.
AND AT THAT POINT AS THE
PRESIDENT'S MADE CLEAR, PRIME
MINISTER'S MADE CLEAR, ARTICLE
5, WHICH IS THE GUARANTEE OF
COLLECTIVE SELF-DEFENSE WILL
APPLY.
NATO MEMBERS WILL DEFEND THEIR
TERRITORY, DEFEND EACH OTHER IF
ATTACKED.
MR. PUTIN WOULD DO WELL NOT TO
ATTACK NATO.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S BEEN
COMMENTED ON IS JUST HOW SOLID
THE NATO ALLIANCE IS AS A RESULT
OF WHAT VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS DONE.
YOU HAVE BEEN IN FOREIGN POLICY
FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.
ARE YOU AS SURPRISED AS EVERYONE
ELSE SEEMS IN THE NATIONAL
SECURITY ESTABLISHMENT BY HOW
QUICKLY, NOT ONLY HAS THE WEST
RALLIED AROUND, YOU KNOW,
REACTING TO PUTIN, BUT THAT THE
NATO ALLIANCE SEEMS TO BE
STRONGER THAN IT'S EVER BEEN?
>> I'M NOT SURPRISED BECAUSE AS
YOU SAY, I'VE WORKED ON THESE
SITUATIONS FOR A LONG TIME, AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS.
NATO COHERES TO DEFEND EUROPEAN
STABILITY.
THE KREMLIN IS SURPRISED BY HOW
QUICKLY NATO HAS COME TOGETHER.
AS THEY SIT IN THE KREMLIN, WHAT
THEY'VE DONE IS MAKE NATO COHERE
AND ALIGN THEIR POSITIONS.