>> Steve: OTTAWA IS A CITY ACCUSTOMED TO PROTESTS AND BIG GATHERINGS ON PARLIAMENT HILL.
BUT WHAT'S CURRENTLY HAPPENING THERE IS UNPRECEDENTED, AS PROTESTORS CALLING THEMSELVES A
"FREEDOM CONVOY" HAVE CREATED ENCAMPMENTS AND ARE REFUSING TO LEAVE.
JOANNE CHIANELLO IS THE CITY AFFAIRS ANALYST FOR CBC OTTAWA, AND SHE'S BEEN COVERING THIS
STORY SINCE IT BEGAN NEARLY TWO WEEKS AGO.
SHE JOINS US NOW FROM THE DOWNTOWN CORE OF THE NATION'S CAPITAL.
JOANNE, AS ALWAYS, GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
HOW ARE YOU MANAGING?
>> Joanne: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
YOU KNOW, WEIRDLY, IT'S STARTING TO SEEM NORMAL TO HAVE ALL OF THESE TRUCKS DOWNSTAIRS --
DOWNTOWN, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT'S REALLY A GOOD SIGN.
>> Steve: I HEAR YOU.
ALMOST TWO WEEKS IN, HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THE MOOD OF THE PROTESTERS TODAY AS OPPOSED TO
WHEN THIS STARTED?
>> Joanne: THIS STARTED LIKE A FEW WEEKENDS AGO AND IT WAS SORT OF A PARTY, JOVIAL MOOD.
AND A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT, INCLUDING POLICE, INCLUDING THE CITY, THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE A
WEEKEND AFFAIR, THAT MAYBE SOME DIE-HARDS WERE GOING TO STAY, BUT THAT WAS GOING TO BE IT.
THEY WERE GOING TO GO.
THAT IS OBVIOUSLY NOT THE CASE.
LAST TIME WE HEARD THERE WERE 400 OR SO TRUCKS IN THE DOWNTOWN CORE, SPILLING OUT DIESEL FUMES,
HONKING THEIR HORNS UNTIL VERY RECENTLY.
THERE ARE LOTS OF REPORTS OF PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBOURHOOD BEING HARASSED.
AND RIGHT NOW WHERE WE ARE IS I WOULD SAY AT A TENSE STANDOFF, TRYING TO SEE WHAT IS GOING TO
HAPPEN NEXT.
POLICE HAVE ANNOUNCED A HUGE INCREASE IN POLICING AND SECURITY.
THEY'VE ASKED FOR 1800 PEOPLE.
I THINK BOTH PROTESTERS ARE WONDERING WHEN THAT POLICE FORCE IS GOING TO COME IN, WHAT'S
GOING TO HAPPEN, AND AS WE'RE APPROACHING ANOTHER WEEKEND HERE, WEEKEND NUMBER 3, I THINK
THAT THE RESIDENTS ARE THINKING, ARE WE GOING TO BE SEEING YET AGAIN THOUSANDS MORE PROTESTERS
COME BACK INTO THE CITY?
SO PEOPLE ARE REALLY WONDERING WHAT IS THE NEXT STEP HERE.
>> Steve: HOW ORGANIZED VERSUS ORGANIC DOES IT ALL SEEM RIGHT NOW?
>> Joanne: YOU KNOW, THE PROTESTERS ARE SUPER ORGANIZED.
YOU KNOW, LAST WEEKEND, I WENT TO THE CAMP, THEY CALL IT THE COVETTRY CAMP -- COVENTRY CAMP,
YOU WOULD APPRECIATE THIS, STEVE, IT'S THE LOCAL BASEBALL STADIUM OWNED BY THE CITY AND
IT'S ON COVENTRY ROAD AND THE PARKING LOT THERE HAD BEEN USED TO PARK SOME OF THESE VEHICLES
ON THE FIRST WEEKEND, THE IDEA BEING, LET'S TAKE SOME OF THESE TRUCKS OUT OF THE DOWNTOWN CORE,
PUT THEM, YOU KNOW, AS A PARKING LOT, AND THEY WERE GOING TO BE LEAVING SUNDAY NIGHT.
BUT IN FACT WHAT THEY DID WAS, THEY QUICKLY MOVED INTO -- THEY'RE SETTING UP THIS CAMP AS
A SUPPLY CAMP.
THERE IS FUEL THERE, FOOD, TENTS.
THEY BROUGHT IN SOME SAUNAS TO KEEP THEMSELVES WARM.
AND, YOU KNOW, THE CITY HAS HAD TROUBLE MOVING THEM OUT OF THERE.
IN FACT IT WAS ONLY LAST SUNDAY NIGHT THAT THERE WAS A MASSIVE POLICE RAID THERE TO ACTUALLY
REMOVE SOME FUEL.
SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN VERY SURPRISED BY HOW HIGHLY ORGANIZED THIS PROTEST
WAS.
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE TRUCKERS HERE, THEY'VE BEEN HERE FOR ALMOST TWO WEEKS.
THEY'RE BEING FED.
THEY'RE BEING GIVEN FUEL.
AND THEY'RE -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE ABILITY FOR PEOPLE TO -- THE PROTESTERS TO COMMUNICATE WITH
THEMSELVES, AMONGST THEMSELVES, I SHOULD SAY, HAS BEEN QUITE IMPRESSIVE ON A LOGISTICAL
SCALE, TO BE HONEST.
>> Steve: THAT POLICE RAID THAT YOU JUST REFERENCED, HOW SUCCESSFUL OR NOT FROM A LAW
ENFORCEMENT POINT OF VIEW WAS IT?
>> Joanne: YOU KNOW, I WAS ACTUALLY AT IT.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING I USUALLY DO.
I'M USUALLY COVERING, YOU KNOW, CITY HALL AND LEGISLATURE.
SO IT WAS THERE -- AND I THINK IT DID TWO THINGS.
ONE THING IS, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE -- THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CRITICISM THAT POLICE HAVE NOT
BEEN ENFORCING THE LAWS.
PEOPLE WANT TO SEE MORE ACTIVE POLICING.
THEY WILL TELL YOU THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO KEEP THINGS UNDER CONTROL, AND I SHOULD SAY, WE
HAVEN'T SEEN ANY RIOTS HERE, WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY REALLY SERIOUS INJURIES OR DEATHS.
THAT IS NOT TO SAY THERE HAVE NOT BEEN -- CRIMES HAVE NOT BEEN COMMITTED AND THERE HAVEN'T BEEN
OTHER PROBLEMS.
BUT ON THAT SCALE IT HAS BEEN A SUCCESS.
BUT PEOPLE ARE SAYING, LOOK, WHERE IS THE ENFORCEMENT?
AND WHAT YOU SAW SUNDAY NIGHT AT THIS BASEBALL STADIUM PARKING LOT WAS A VERY, VERY OBVIOUS
DISPLAY, I WOULD SAY, OF POLICE POWER.
THERE ARE ROWS AND ROWS AND ROWS OF POLICE, HEAVILY ARMED IN THEIR RIOT GEAR COMING IN,
DOZENS OF TRUCKS CAME IN, FIRE, AMBULANCE.
THEY CAME, THEY TOOK THE FUEL TANKS AWAY, AND SO THAT HAS -- IN A PRACTICAL SENSE, THE SUPPLY
CAMP HAS LOST THEIR FUEL THAT THEY WERE TRANSPORTING TO THOSE -- TO THE PROTESTERS WHO
ARE DOWNTOWN.
BUT I ALSO THINK IT ALSO SERVED TO DEMORALIZE THEM A LITTLE BIT AS WELL.
NOW, THEY ARE REGROUPING, THE PROTESTERS, AND THEY SAY THEY'RE STILL GOING TO KEEP GOING.
BUT IT WAS ACTUALLY ONE POSITIVE STEP FORWARD, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY NOT ENDED THE PROTEST BY ANY
MEANS.
>> Steve: NO.
HAVING SAID THAT, WE DID SEE THE ONTARIO LIBERAL LEADER THE OTHER DAY COME OUT AND SAY IT'S ENOUGH
ALREADY.
WE NEED TO START SEEING ARRESTS.
WE NEED TO START SEEING TOW TRUCKS COME IN AND SIMPLY TAKING VEHICLES AWAY FROM THEIR
OWNERS -- >> Joanne: HE WAS IN TOWN TODAY.
HE'S THE FIRST LEADER TO -- FIRST PROVINCIAL LEADER TO COME AND VISIT THE PROTEST.
>> Steve: HE'S NOT MEETING PROTESTERS, THOUGH, IS HE?
>> Joanne: I DIDN'T SEE HIM BUT I THINK HE'S MEETING WITH RESIDENTS.
NO, HE'S NOT HERE TO NEGOTIATE.
I THINK HE'S HERE TO REACH OUT TO THE RESIDENTS OF OTTAWA, IT BEING AN ELECTION YEAR, AS YOU
KNOW.
>> Steve: INDEED.
AND THEREFORE -- THE RESIDENTS HAVE GOT TO BE AT THEIR WIT'S END BY THIS POINT.
I KNOW THE HORNS AREN'T HONKING AS MUCH AS NOW AS THEY ONCE DID.
BUT STILL, PEOPLE CAN'T GET INTO BUSINESSES, THEY CAN'T LEAVE THEIR HOMES IN MANY CASES --
>> Joanne: IT'S TERRIBLE.
>> Steve: YEAH.
GIVE US SOME MORE FLAVOUR OF WHAT'S GOING ON.
>> Joanne: I JUST GO BACK -- I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU THERE.
BECAUSE YOU WERE SAYING THAT YES PEOPLE HAVE SAID IT'S TIME TO TOW TRUCKS OUT AND THINGS LIKE
THAT.
IT'S NOT AS IF PEOPLE HAVE NOT THOUGHT OF THAT.
OF COURSE THEY HAVE.
IT IS NOT EASY.
FOR EXAMPLE, I HEARD FROM THE OTTAWA CITY MANAGER, THEY HAVE LOTS OF TOW TRUCKS -- TOW TRUCK
COMPANIES ON RETAINER, THE CITY DOES.
THEY HAVE ALL REFUSED TO GO IN TO DO THIS WORK.
NOT ONLY IS IT LOGISTICALLY DIFFICULT IF THE DRIVER DOESN'T WANT TO -- HOW SHOULD I SAY --
COOPERATE, BUT ALSO THEY'RE HAVING TROUBLE FINDING COMPANIES THAT ARE WILLING TO GO IN THERE
BECAUSE EITHER THEY DON'T WANT TO UPSET BIG TRUCKING COMPANIES WHO THEY GET THEIR WORK FROM OR
THEY'RE AFRAID, FRANKLY.
SO IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE.
AS WELL, WE HEARD -- THE PROTESTERS DOWNTOWN, ABOUT A QUARTER OF THEM HAVE CHILDREN
WITH THEM.
AND SO IT'S NOT THAT YOU WANT TO GO IN ALL GUNS BLAZING, RIGHT?
YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT HURT WHEN YOU DO THIS.
AND IT IS GETTING SMALLER DAY BY DAY, BUT OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR PATIENCE.
A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT IT TO END ALL AT ONCE.
WE ALSO HEAR THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A NEW CONVOY OF TRUCKS MAYBE COMING IN THIS WEEKEND AND
THIS IS THE OTHER THING PEOPLE ARE BRACING FOR.
THE LAST TWO WEEKENDS WE'VE HAD SORT OF THE WEEKEND WARRIOR TYPES COME IN.
SOME ARE PARTYERS.
LAST WEEKEND YOU SAW THE PICTURES OF BOUNCY CASTLES ON WELLINGTON STREET AND BARBECUES.
PART OF IT WAS SORT OF FUN.
ANOTHER PART HAS SORT OF A MENACING ATMOSPHERE.
WE HAD RANDY HILLIER, THE MPP KICKED OUT OF THE PC CAUCUS HERE, TELLING PEOPLE THIS IS THE
HILL TO DIE ON, DON'T GO.
SO, AGAIN, IT SEEMS TO BE HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION TOWARDS ENDING IT, BUT IT IS NOT
THERE YET.
AND PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE NEXT STEPS -- RESIDENTS ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE NEXT STEPS
THAT PROTESTERS MIGHT MAKE.
>> Steve: NO DISRESPECT TO MR. HILLIER, BUT HE'S HARDLY THE HIGHEST PROFILE POLITICIAN OR
EX-PROFILE POLITICIAN TO MAKE HAY WITH THIS.
DONALD TRUMP MENTIONED IT THE OTHER WAY.
IT IS ALL OVER AMERICAN TELEVISION.
WHAT DO PEOPLE IN OTTAWA MAKE OF THAT?
>> Joanne: IT'S NOT GREAT.
WE'RE USUALLY THOUGHT OF AS BORING.
I THINK PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO BE KNOWN AS THE TOWN THAT FUN FORGOT.
OTTAWA IS A CAPITAL THAT IS KNOWN FOR HAVING A NICE BIG CANADA DAY PARTY.
WE NEVER MAKE THE INTERNATIONAL NEWS ALMOST EVER.
AND NOW I THINK WE'D LIKE TO GO BACK TO THAT.
IT'S CERTAINLY ALSO BEEN SEEN AS A CATALYST FOR OTHER PROTESTS.
THIS IS NOT SOMETHING, AGAIN, THAT PEOPLE ARE HAPPY ABOUT, AND ALSO -- IT ALSO BRINGS UP THE --
IT HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW WELL OTTAWA CAN BE MANAGED, RIGHT?
AND I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A BIG STORY AFTERWARDS.
ALREADY WE'RE SEEING CALLS FOR INQUIRIES AS TO HOW WAS THIS ALLOWED TO GET TO THIS STAGE,
THIS KIND OF PROTEST.
BUT NOW PEOPLE ARE WORRIED THAT WE'RE SEEN AS SOMEONE WHO CANNOT MANAGE OUR OWN SECURITY AND
THAT'S NOT A GREAT THING.
>> Steve: JOANNE, MAYBE ONE MORE COMMENT ON PRIME MINISTER TRUDEAU.
WE NOTICE THAT HE TOOK PART IN THAT EMERGENCY DEBATE THAT TOOK PLACE IN PARLIAMENT THE OTHER
DAY.
YOU KNOW, HE'S BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE IN SOME RESPECTS.
HE'S NOT GOING TO GO MEET THE PROTESTERS.
SOME PEOPLE WANT HIM TO MEET THE PROTESTERS, BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT ABOUT TO HAPPEN.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT PEOPLE THINK HE OUGHT TO BE DOING RIGHT NOW VIS-A-VIS THIS DEMONSTRATION
THAT HE HASN'T DONE YET?
>> Joanne: WELL, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE IS AN EXPERT ON HOW TO END THIS DEMONSTRATION.
THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS YOU REALIZE WHEN YOU START REPORTING THINGS.
BUT OF COURSE THERE ARE TWO ENDS OF THE SPECTRUM, RIGHT?
ONE IS SEND IN THE ARMY, USE ALL THE FORCE YOU HAVE.
THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
THE LAWS AROUND THAT ARE VERY SPECIFIC THAT YOU ONLY USE AN ARMY IN A NATIONAL EMERGENCY,
YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S RIOTING, AND HE HAS SAID -- AND I THINK RIGHTLY -- THAT YOU WANT TO BE
VERY CAREFUL WHEN YOU ARE SENDING IN CANADIAN ARMED FORCES AGAINST CANADIANS.
ON THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM, I THINK SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT THE PRIME MINISTER
COULD SPEAK OUT MORE TO SOME PEOPLE -- YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST HERE
BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN THE LAWS, THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN THE COVID RESTRICTIONS, THEY'RE
HERE TO PROTEST THAT AND THAT IS SOMETHING THEY ARE ALLOWED TO DO.
AND I THINK THAT THE PRIME MINISTER MAYBE COULD HAVE GONE A LITTLE FARTHER IN SAYING, YOU
KNOW, PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT OR TRYING TO START FIRES IN
APARTMENTS OR HARASSING RESIDENTS -- I'M NOT TALKING TO YOU.
I'M NOT TALKING TO YOU.
BUT THE REST OF YOU WHO ARE THERE BECAUSE YOU DON'T AGREE, I HEAR YOU.
I'M YOUR PRIME MINISTER AS WELL.
MAYBE YOU DIDN'T VOTE FOR ME.
AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO TALK TO EACH OTHER.
BECAUSE THERE IS NOW A GIANT GAP HERE AND I DON'T KNOW HOW FEDERAL LEADERS ARE GOING TO
BRIDGE THAT, PROVINCIAL LEADERS TOO, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF
PEOPLE WHO ARE NORMAL PEOPLE WHO WOULD NEVER PROTEST WHO ARE HERE WHO ARE NOT NECESSARILY
AGITATORS.
I DON'T KNOW IF THEY FEEL LISTENED TO.
>> Steve: JOANNE CHIANELLO, CBC, OTTAWA.
ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE YOU JOIN US ON OUR PROGRAM, JOANNE, AND THANKS SO MUCH FOR THAT UPDATE.
>> Joanne: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.