ANYWHERE ELSE. THAT IS "ALL IN" FOR THIS
EVENING.
EVENING. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" STARTS
RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT NOW. GOOD EVENING, RACHEL.
>> GOOD EVENING.
THANKS, MY FRIEND.
THANKS TO YOU AT HOME FOR
JOINING US THIS HOUR ON WHAT HAS
BEEN A FAST-MOVING NEWS DAY AND
WHAT IS TURNING OUT TO BE A
FAST-MOVING NEWS NIGHT.
IN PARTICULAR, YOU WILL HAVE
NOTICED AS THE DAY WENT ON AND
INTO THIS EVENING, THERE HAS
BEEN A TON OF NEWS AND AN
INCREASING AMOUNT OF NEWS ON THE
CASE OF JAMAL KHASHOGGI, THE
SAUDI-BORN DISSIDENT JOURNALIST
WHO HAS DISAPPEARED.
IT WAS SORT OF SURREAL TO SEE
THOSE IMAGES EARLY TODAY OF THE
AMERICAN SECRETARY OF STATE IN
SAUDI ARABIA MEETING WITH THAT
COUNTRY’S LEADERSHIP WHILE THE
KINGDOM HEADS INTO WEEK THREE
NOW OF TRYING TO COME UP WITH AN
EXPLANATION FOR WHAT HAPPENED TO
THIS "WASHINGTON POST"
JOURNALIST AFTER HE WALKED INTO
A SAUDI CONSULATE IN TURKEY AND
THEN WAS NEVER SEEN OR HEARD
FROM AGAIN.
FROM AGAIN. IT’S UNSETTLING ENOUGH TO SEE
THESE IMAGES, RIGHT?
THE U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
YUKKING IT UP WITH THE RULING
CROWN PRINCE OF SAUDI ARABIA
WHILE THAT CROWN PRINCE STANDS
FAIRLY CREDIBLY ACCUSED OF
ORCHESTRATING THE MURDER OF A
U.S.-BASED JOURNALIST, A
VIRGINIA RESIDENT, AN EMPLOYEE
OF ONE OF AMERICA’S GREAT
NATIONAL NEWSPAPERS.
NATIONAL NEWSPAPERS. THERE IS MIKE POMPEO, HA HA HA,
GREAT TO SEE YOU, MY OLD FRIEND.
THEN SHORTLY AFTER WE GOT THOSE
IMAGES OUT OF SAUDI ARABIA, THE
PRESIDENT HIMSELF GAVE AN
INTERVIEW TO THE ASSOCIATED
PRESS FROM THE OVAL OFFICE IN
WHICH HE SAID THIS APPARENT
MURDER CASE, IN HIS WORDS, IS
JUST ANOTHER CASE OF YOU’RE
GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT.
TO UNDERSTAND SOME OF WHAT THE
PRESIDENT IS TALKING ABOUT
THERE, I THINK IT MAY BE WORTH
REMEMBERING THAT SINCE JAMAL
KHASHOGGI WENT MISSING,
PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS ALSO
PUBLICLY ASSERTED THAT THE U.S.
GOVERNMENT HAS AN ACTIVE
INVESTIGATION INTO THIS MATTER,
THAT IN FACT WE HAVE
INVESTIGATORS ON THE GROUND
WHERE KHASHOGGI DISAPPEARED,
LOOKING INTO THIS.
THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID THAT
PUBLICLY.
PUBLICLY. THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE THE
CASE.
CASE. AFTER THE PRESIDENT MADE THAT
PUBLIC ASSERTION, THAT THERE IS
SOME U.S. INVESTIGATION UNDER
WAY WHERE KHASHOGGI DISAPPEARED,
THE FBI HAD TO CLARIFY TO THE
PRESS THAT ACTUALLY, NO, WE’RE
NOT.
NOT. WE’RE NOT LOOKING INTO THIS.
THE FBI HAS NOT BEEN INVITED TO
INVESTIGATE THIS MATTER IN
TURKEY.
TURKEY. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ON THE GROUND
INVESTIGATING THIS MATTER,
DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE
PRESIDENT IS SAYING THEY WERE.
BUT NOW IT’S CLEAR FROM THE
PRESIDENT’S BEHAVIOR THAT I
THINK ONE OF TWO THINGS IS GOING
ON HERE.
ON HERE. WE ARE FACING EITHER THE
PROSPECT THAT THE PRESIDENT
CAN’T CRITICIZE SAUDI ARABIA AND
ITS LEADERS FOR SOME REASON, IS
SOMEHOW BEHOLDEN TO THEM FOR A
REASON HE CANNOT OR WILL NOT
EXPLAIN.
EXPLAIN. HE FEELS BOUND FOR SOME REASON
TO LITERALLY LET THEM GET AWAY
WITH THE MURDER OF A U.S.
RESIDENT, OR THERE’S THE
ALTERNATE PROSPECT HERE THAT
THERE ARE NO ULTERIOR MOTIVES
DRIVING THE PRESIDENT’S
BEHAVIOR, THAT THERE IS NOTHING
WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT OPERATING
BEHIND THE SCENES HERE.
RATHER THIS IS SIMPLY A
MANIFESTATION OF THE FACT THAT
THE PRESIDENT DOESN’T THINK THAT
MURDERING A JOURNALIST FOR "THE
WASHINGTON POST" IS ALL THAT BIG
A THING.
A THING. WHY WOULD WE CARE?
I MEAN I SHOULDN’T SAY THAT
THESE TWO PROSPECTS ARE MUTUALLY
EXCLUSIVE.
EXCLUSIVE. I GUESS THEY COULD BOTH BE TRUE.
HE COULD BOTH BE COMPROMISED BY
THE SAUDIS IN THE SENSE HE IS
NOT FREE TO CRITICIZE THEM, NO
MATTER WHAT THEY DO, EVEN WHEN
THEY START KILLING U.S.-BASED
JOURNALISTS, AND ALONGSIDE THAT,
HE COULD ALSO NOT REALLY FEEL
LIKE CRITICIZING THIS KIND OF A
MURDER BECAUSE OF WHO WAS
MURDERED, AND HE DOESN’T THINK
THIS KIND OF A MURDER IS THAT
BIG A DEAL.
THEY COULD BOTH EXIST, RIGHT?
BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THOSE ARE THE
FEASIBLE EXPLANATIONS THUS FAR
FOR THE PRESIDENT’S BEHAVIOR.
I HAVE YET TO HEAR ANY EVEN
PROPOSED ALTERNATE EXPLANATION
FOR THE PRESIDENT’S BEHAVIOR
FROM ANYBODY INSIDE THE WHITE
HOUSE OR FROM THE PRESIDENT
HIMSELF.
HIMSELF. NOT LEAST IN THIS NEW INTERVIEW
THAT HE HAS JUST DONE WITH THE
AP TONIGHT.
AP TONIGHT. SO WE’RE WATCHING THAT STORY.
WE’VE ACTUALLY GOT SOME BREAKING
NEWS ON THAT STORY COMING UP IN
A MOMENT WITH "THE NEW YORK
TIMES" REPORTER WHO JUST BROKE A
REALLY IMPORTANT PIECE OF THIS.
BEFORE WE GET TO THAT INTERVIEW,
I WANT TO LET YOU KNOW, THOUGH,
IN TERMS OF WHAT ELSE IS COMING
UP THIS HOUR, WE’RE GOING TO
KNOW THREE WEEKS FROM TONIGHT
WHETHER OR NOT AMERICA IS GOING
TO CHANGE UP THE CONGRESS AFTER
THESE FIRST TWO YEARS OF THE
TRUMP PRESIDENCY.
TRUMP PRESIDENCY. TODAY WAS THE DEADLINE TO
REGISTER TO VOTE IN SIX MORE
STATES -- LOUISIANA, KANSAS,
MARYLAND, NEW JERSEY, OREGON,
AND WEST VIRGINIA.
TODAY IS THE VOTER REGISTRATION
DEADLINE IN ALL THOSE STATES.
WE’VE GOT A COUPLE OF BIG
STORIES COMING UP TONIGHT ON THE
ELECTION, AND SPECIFICALLY, YOUR
ABILITY TO VOTE IN THESE
ELECTIONS.
ELECTIONS. GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE BRIAN
KEMP GOT SUED TWO MORE TIMES IN
THE PAST 24 HOURS OVER SERIOUS
VOTER SUPPRESSION CONCERNS IN
HIS STATE WHERE HE IS RUNNING
THE ELECTION AS GEORGIA’S
SECRETARY OF STATE, AND HE IS
ALSO RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR AS THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY’S NOMINEE FOR
THAT JOB.
THAT JOB. WE’LL HAVE NEWS ON THAT COMING
UP.
UP. WE ALSO JUST GOT ACTUALLY SOME
GREAT VOTING NEWS OUT OF
GEORGIA.
GEORGIA. WE’RE COVERING A LOT OF BAD
VOTING NEWS OUT OF GEORGIA.
WE GOT GREAT VOTING NEWS OUT OF
GEORGIA TONIGHT.
GEORGIA TONIGHT. IT’S NOT AT ALL PARTISAN.
IT IS NOT A TILT FOR ONE SIDE OR
THE OTHER, IT’S JUST REALLY
GREAT NEWS FROM THAT STATE.
WE’RE GOING TO HAVE THAT GOOD
NEWS STORY COMING UP IN JUST A
MOMENT.
MOMENT. BUT AS I SAID, THIS HAS BEEN A
DAY AND PARTICULARLY AN EVENING
OF CONTINUING BREAKING NEWS, A
LOT OF WHICH RELATES TO JAMAL
KHASHOGGI.
KHASHOGGI. JUST TONIGHT, "THE NEW YORK
TIMES" HAS PUBLISHED THE RESULTS
OF BASICALLY SOME FORENSIC VIDEO
AND TRAFFICIC ANALYSIS, DIGGING
INTO THE IDENTITY OF THE 15-MAN
SAUDI TEAM THAT TURKEY SAYS FLEW
INTO TURKEY AND TRAVELLED TO THE
SAUDI CONSULATE THERE AT THE
TIME OF THE DISAPPEARANCE OF MR.
KHASHOGGI.
KHASHOGGI. NOW WHAT’S PARTICULARLY
IMPORTANT ABOUT WHAT THE TIMES
HAS DONE TONIGHT WITH THIS
FORENSIC WORK IS THAT IT -- THIS
REPORTING FROM "THE TIMES"
TONIGHT IS GOING TO CONSTRAIN, I
THINK, AND ALSO SORT OF LAY BARE
SAUDI ARABIA’S RESPONSE THUS FAR
TO THE DISAPPEARANCE OF JAMAL
KHASHOGGI, BUT ALSO PRESIDENT
TRUMP’S RESPONSE AS WELL.
I MEAN, THE BOTTOM LINE HERE IS
THAT WE STILL HAVE EXACTLY NO
IDEA WHAT HAPPENED TO JAMAL
KHASHOGGI.
KHASHOGGI. TWO WEEKS AGO TODAY, HE WALKED
INTO THE SAUDI CONSULATE IN
ISTANBUL AND HE JUST
DISAPPEARED, NEVER HEARD FROM
AGAIN.
AGAIN. NOW TURKEY HAS BEEN SAYING THAT
HE WAS LURED IN TO THAT
CONSULATE AND THEN KILLED BY A
15-MAN TEAM, A KILL-TEAM, THAT
FLEW IN FROM RIYADH IN SAUDI
ARABIA.
ARABIA. THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT MEANWHILE
IS DENYING ANY INVOLVEMENT.
FOR DAYS NOW, PRESIDENT TRUMP
HAS BEEN TELEGRAPHING THAT HE
SPOKE WITH KING SALMAN AND THE
CROWN PRINCE OF SAUDI ARABIA,
MBS, AND THEY BOTH ASSURED HIM
THEY HAD NOTHING DO WITH THE
DISAPPEARANCE OF MR. KHASHOGGI,
THAT THEY TOO ARE CONCERNED
ABOUT HIS WHEREABOUT, AND THEY
ARE NOT ONLY WORKING WITH TURKEY
TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS,
BUT THEY’RE ALSO INVESTIGATING
THEIR OWN INTERNAL
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. YESTERDAY PRESIDENT TRUMP
HIMSELF DECIDED THAT HE WOULD
TEST BALLOON ONE OF THE NEWEST
SAUDI TALKING POINTS ABOUT WHAT
MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED TO JAMAL
KHASHOGGI.
KHASHOGGI. SO IT MIGHT SEEM LIKE THE RULERS
OF THAT COUNTRY SHOULD BE OFF
THE HOOK IN HIS DISAPPEARANCE.
PRESIDENT TRUMP TOLD REPORTERS
YESTERDAY, QUOTE, IT SOUNDED TO
ME LIKE MAYBE THESE COULD HAVE
BEEN ROGUE KILLERS.
WHO KNOWS?
WHO KNOWS? IT’S LITERALLY THE PHRASE HE
USED, ROGUE KILLERS, WHO KNOWS.
A FEW HOURS LATER, CNN THEN "THE
NEW YORK TIMES" AND THEN NBC
NEWS ALL REPORTED THAT THE SAUDI
GOVERNMENT IN FACT IS DISCUSSING
A PLAN IN WHICH THEY MIGHT ADMIT
THAT JAMAL KHASHOGGI WAS KILLED
IN THEIR CONSULATE, BUT THEY
WOULD SAY IT WAS CARRIED OUT BY,
WHAT DID TRUMP SAY?
AH, ROGUE OPERATIVES.
YEAH YEAH, HE WAS KILLED IN OUR
CONSULATE, BUT IT WASN’T ORDERED
BY THE GOVERNMENT.
THESE WERE ROGUE OPERATIVES WHO
KILLED HIM ON THEIR OWN
RECOGNIZANCE DURING AN
INTERROGATION OR A RENDITION
ATTEMPT THAT WENT HORRIBLY AWRY.
BY CLAIMING THAT THIS THING WAS
CARRIED OUT BY ROGUE AGENTS, NOT
CONTROLLED BY THE SAUDI
GOVERNMENT, THAT WOULD
PRESUMABLY BE AN EFFORT TO
ABSOLVE THE SAUDI LEADERSHIP,
PARTICULARLY TO ABSOLVE THE
CROWN PRINCE, MBS, OF ANY
RESPONSIBILITY.
RESPONSIBILITY. IT WOULD ALLOW MOHAMMED BIN
SALMAN, THE CROWN PRINCE TO SAY
THAT HE DIDN’T ORDER THE KILLING
OF JAMAL KHASHOGGI.
SOMEONE WENT ROGUE.
HE CAN’T BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR
IT.
IT. WELL, NOW TONIGHT "THE NEW YORK
TIMES" HAS DUG IN, AND THEY SAY
THEY HAVE INDEPENDENTLY VERIFIED
THE IDENTITY OF AT LEAST NINE
MEMBERS OF THIS 15-MEMBER TEAM
OF SAUDIS.
OF SAUDIS. THEY SAY THEY’VE CONFIRMED THAT
THEY’RE MEMBERS OF THE SAUDI
SECURITY SERVICES, THE SAUDI
MILITARY OR OTHER SAUDI
GOVERNMENT MINUTE INDUSTRIES.
"THE TIMES" SAY THEY COMPILED
THIS INFORMATION USING A WHOLE
BUNCH OF RESOURCES, FACIAL
RECOGNITION SOFTWARE, PUBLICLY
AVAILABLE RECORDS, SOCIAL MEDIA
PROFILES, A DATABASE OF SAUDI
CELL PHONE NUMBERS, SAUDI NEWS
REPORTS, LEAKED SAUDI GOVERNMENT
DOCUMENTS, AND IN SOME CASES,
THE ACCOUNTS OF WITNESSES IN
SAUDI ARABIA AND COUNTRIES THE
CROWN PRINCE HAS VISITED.
SO "THE TIMES" TONIGHT SAYS
THEY’RE ABLE TO PLACE A NUMBER
OF THE SUSPECTS IDENTIFIED BY
TURKEY IN THE DISAPPEARANCE OF
MEASURE KHASHOGGI AS BEING IN
THE SAME PLACE AS MOHAMMED BIN
SALMAN, BEING IN THE SAME PLACE
AS THE CROWN PRINCE, MBS, ON
SEVERAL OCCASIONS.
SEVERAL OCCASIONS. AND THIS IS THE GUY WHO IS GOING
TO HAUNT YOUR DREAMS A LITTLE
BIT TONIGHT, THIS GUYTON LEFT
SIDE OF THE PICTURE HERE, THIS
ONE GUY WHO IS IDENTIFIED BY
TURKEY AS A MEMBER OF THIS
15-MAN TEAM.
15-MAN TEAM. HERE HE IS IN A PHOTO WITH MBS
IN MADRID, IN SPAIN, IN APRIL OF
THIS YEAR.
THIS YEAR. HERE’S THE SAME GUY AGAIN WITH
MBS, THIS TIME IN PARIS.
HERE HE IS AGAIN, AGAIN WITH
MBS, THIS TIME IN BOSTON.
HERE HE IS, AGAIN, AGAIN WITH
MBS, THIS TIME IN HOUSTON.
THIS GUY HAS BEEN SEEN WITH THE
CROWN PRINCE, MBS, MANY TIMES
JUST THIS YEAR BY HIS SIDE AS HE
GETS OFF PLANES, STANDING GUARD.
PRESUMABLY, IF THIS GUY, THIS
SAME GUY WAS PRESENT IN THE
SAUDI CONSULATE IN ISTANBUL WHEN
JAMAL KHASHOGGI DISAPPEARED
INSIDE THAT CONSULATE, THEN THAT
WOULD PROVIDE A DIRECT LINK
BETWEEN THE RULER OF SAUDI
ARABIA, THE CROWN PRINCE, MBS,
AND THE DISAPPEARANCE OR THE
KILLING OF MR. KHASHOGGI.
IT WOULD BE A HECK OF A
COINCIDENCE IF THIS GUY WHO
TRAVELS WITH HIM AND IS ALWAYS
SEEN WITH HIM ALSO HAPPENED TO
BE IN THAT CONSULATE, AND MBS
HAD NO IDEA, REALLY?
IT WOULD ALSO SHATTER THE
SUGGESTION WHICH PRESIDENT TRUMP
AND THE SAUDIS ARE NOW TRYING TO
FLOAT TOGETHER THAT MR.
KHASHOGGI MIGHT HAVE DIED IN
SOME ROGUE OPERATION, RIGHT,
THAT WASN’T AT ALL RELATED TO
THE CROWN PRINCE.
APART FROM LINKING AT LEAST NINE
OF THE 15 SAUDIS TO THE SAUDI
ROYAL COURT, "THE NEW YORK
TIMES" ALSO POINTS OUT THE MERE
PRESENCE OF AN AUTOPSY EXPERT AS
ONE OF THE SUSPECTS WHO WAS ALSO
REPORTEDLY IN THE CONSULATE,
SUGGESTING THAT THE KILLING
MIGHT HAVE BEEN PART OF THE
ORIGINAL PLAN, NOT SOMETHING
THAT HAPPENED ACCIDENTALLY.
YOU DON’T BRING ALONG THE
AUTOPSY EXPERT IF YOU’RE
PLANNING TO JUST ASK THE GUY
HARD QUESTIONS.
HARD QUESTIONS. "THE TIMES" TONIGHT DETAILS A
SLEW OF THIS GUY’S TITLES,
INCLUDING THE MOST RECENT WHERE
HE WAS THE HEAD OF THE SAUDI
SCIENTIFIC FORENSICS.
SCIENTIFIC FORENSICS. "THE TIMES" NOTES SUCH A SENIOR
FIGURE IN THE SAUDI MEDICAL
ESTABLISHMENT WAS UNLIKELY TO
JOIN A ROGUE EXPEDITION
ORGANIZED BY AN UNDERLING.
WHAT "THE NEW YORK TIMES" IS
REPORTING HERE TONIGHT IS IF
PRESIDENT TRUMP IS GOING TO
PARTICIPATE WITH THE SAUDI ROYAL
FAMILY, THE RULERS OF SAUDI
ARABIA IN TRYING TO CLAIM THAT
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THIS
U.S.-BASED JOURNALIST IS SOME
ACT OF ROGUE ACTORS TOTALLY
UNCONNECTED TO THE SAUDI ROYAL
FAMILY AND TO IN PARTICULAR THE
CROWN PRINCE, THEY ARE GOING
HAVE A VERY HARD TIME MAKING
THAT CASE IF THEY INTEND TO MAKE
IT BASED ON ANY EVIDENCE,
BECAUSE ALL THE PUBLICLY
AVAILABLE EVIDENCE COMPILED BY
"THE TIMES" AND OTHERS SUGGESTS
THAT AT LEAST SOME OF THE PEOPLE
WHO INEXPLICABLY, OTHERWISE
INEXPLICABLY WERE IN THE
CONSULATE WHEN KHASHOGGI DIED
SEEM TO BE DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO
THE RULER OF SAUDI ARABIA.
JOINING US NOW LIVE FROM
ISTANBUL, TURKEY, WHERE IT IS
PAST THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT IS
DAVID KIRKPATRICK, INTERNATIONAL
CORRESPONDENT FOR "THE TIMES"
WHO IS ONE OF THE AUTHORS OF
THIS PIECE TONIGHT, LEAD AUTHOR
OF THIS PIECE THAT’S JUST POSTED
AT "THE TIMES."
MR. KIRKPATRICK, THANK YOU FOR
STAYING UP SO LATE TO JOIN US.
REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
>> GOOD TO TALK TO YOU.
>> SO I TRIED TO SUMMARIZE BOTH
THE IMPLICATIONS AND THE BASIC
FINDINGS OF YOUR PIECE TONIGHT.
FIRST, LET ME ASK YOU IF I GOT
ANY OF THAT WRONG OR IF THAT
ADEQUATELY SUMMARIZES WHERE YOU
HAVE LANDED WITH THIS REPORTING.
>> NO, YOU PRETTY MUCH GOT IT
THERE SO FOUR OF THESE PEOPLE
APPEAR TO BE MEMBERS OF THE
CROWN PRINCE’S SECURITY TEAM,
AND ONE OF THEM IS A VERY
HIGH-RANKING SAUDI AUTOPSY
EXPERT, MAYBE PERHAPS THE
PREIMMINENT FORENSIC DOCTOR IN
THE KINGDOM.
THE KINGDOM. >> I REALIZE THIS IS MORBID, BUT
I GUESS THAT’S THE POINT.
YOU EXPLAIN TO OUR VIEWERS AND
EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THE
IMPLICATIONS ARE OF HAVING AN
AUTOPSY EXPERT AT -- AT -- WELL,
ON THIS SUPPOSED TEAM.
I GUESS I DON’T EVEN REALLY
THINK OF IT OUTSIDE OF CSI AND
TV AND DETECTIVE NOVELS, I DON’T
KNOW WHERE YOU MIGHT SEE AN
AUTOPSY EXPERT DOCTOR OUT IN THE
WILD, WHY THEY WOULD BE
TRAVELING WITH OTHER PEOPLE FROM
THE SECURITY FORCES IN THE
MILITARY, WHAT THIS GUY MIGHT
HAVE BEEN DOING THERE AND WHAT
THIS MIGHT SAFE.
>> IT’S GHOULISH, FOR SURE.
IT DOES LOOK LIKE THIS -- LET ME
PUT IT ANOTHER WAY.
TURKISH OFFICIALS WHO HAVE
BEEN -- ARE SOURCED FROM MUCH OF
THIS INFORMATION CONCLUDED THAT
THIS WAS A PREMEDITATED
ASSASSINATION.
ASSASSINATION. THAT THE REASON WHY YOU BRING
ALONG AN AUTOPSY DOCTOR IS
BECAUSE THERE WAS AN INTENT TO
CUT UP AND DISMEMBER THE BODY IN
ORDER TO DISPOSE OF THE REMAINS.
WHAT’S MORE, THEY BROUGHT WITH
THEM, THE DOCTOR BROUGHT WITH
HIM A BONE SAW.
SO THEY WERE CERTAINLY READY FOR
THE POSSIBILITY THAT THEY WOULD
BE DISMEMBERING A BODY THAT DAY.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS
BEEN SORT OF HARD TO GET OUR
HANDS AROUND HERE I THINK IN
TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING THE
EVIDENCE AS IT IS BUILDING IN
THE PUBLIC REPORTING AROUND THIS
CASE, ESPECIALLY IN THE ABSENCE
OF ANY OFFICIAL INVESTIGATION
THAT WE CAN DO ANY SORT OF
ACCOUNTING FOR, IT’S BEEN HARD
TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT TURKISH
OFFICIALS MIGHT HAVE THEIR OWN
EQUITIES, MIGHT HAVE THEIR OWN
REASONS FOR TRYING TO PAINT THE
DARKEST AND MOST GHOULISH
POSSIBLE PICTURE ABOUT WHAT
HAPPENED HERE.
HAPPENED HERE. I DON’T UNDERSTAND ENOUGH ABOUT
THE RELATIONSHIP AND RIVALRIES
BETWEEN TURKEY AND SAUDI ARABIA
AROUND SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO
KNOW WHETHER OR NOT TURKISH
OFFICIALS SHOULD BE TRUSTED WHEN
THEY TELL AMERICAN REPORTERS
WHAT THEY THINK HAPPENED HERE.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS IS A
BIG LEAP FORWARD FOR YOU AT "THE
TIMES" TONIGHT BECAUSE YOU AT
"THE TIMES" HAVE INDEPENDENTLY
VERIFIED SO MUCH OF WHAT TURKISH
OFFICIALS HAVE PREVIOUSLY
SUGGESTED MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED IN
TERMS OF THIS -- THIS KILL TEAM
FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM.
>> WE’RE STILL RELYING ON THE
TURKS FOR THE NAMES OF THE
SUSPECTS, THE PEOPLE WHO GOT OFF
THE PLANE.
THE PLANE. THEY’RE THE ONES WHO HAVE THE
PASSPORTS.
PASSPORTS. BUT THAT SAID, THEY’VE BEGUN
LEAKING SOME OF THOSE ACTUAL
PASSPORT COPIES.
PASSPORT COPIES. AND YOU’VE ASKED A VERY GOOD
QUESTION ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN THE TURKS AND THE
SAUDIS, BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND,
THERE IS CERTAINLY SOME RIVALRY
BETWEEN THE TWO GOVERNMENTS.
ON THE OTHER HAND, THE TURKS
HAVE GONE WAY OUT OF THEIR WAY
TO AVOID A FIGHT WITH THE SAWED
DORIS A CONFRONTATION WITH THE
SAUDIS PREVIOUSLY.
SAUDIS PREVIOUSLY. SO YOU MIGHT ASK WHY ARE THEY
DISCLOSING THIS INFORMATION?
YOU MIGHT ALSO ASK WHY AREN’T
THEY DISCLOSING MORE OF IT?
WHY IS IT COMING SO FAR IN THE
FORM OF LEAKS TO US OR TO THE
PRO-GOVERNMENT MEDIA?
PRO-GOVERNMENT MEDIA? AND WHY HAVEN’T THEY TURNED IT
OVER TO AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE
AGENCIES.
AGENCIES. THERE IS SOME -- CERTAINLY AMONG
THE FRIENDS OF JAMAL KHASHOGGI
THAT THE TURKS IN A SENSE ARE
COMPLICIT IN THE COVER-UP IF
THEY DON’T MOVE EXPEDITIOUSLY TO
MAKE ALL THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY
SAY THEY HAVE PUBLIC.
IN DEFENSE OF THAT EVIDENCE, A
FEW DAYS AGO, IT LOOKED LIKE
SAUDI ARABIA WAS SAYING, AND
EVEN THE CROWN PRINCE WAS SAYING
JAMAL KHASHOGGI LEFT THE
CONSULATE FREELY.
CONSULATE FREELY. WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS.
THEY’VE MOVED.
THEY’VE MOVED. THEY HAVE BEGUN TO COME AROUND
TO ACKNOWLEDGING THE CENTRAL
CLAIM OF THE TURKS, WHICH IS
THAT JAMAL KHASHOGGI DIED IN THE
CONSULATE.
CONSULATE. AND THAT TELLS ME THERE IS
SOMETHING TO THE EVIDENCE.
>> DAVID KIRKPATRICK,
INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT FOR
"THE NEW YORK TIMES."
HE’S ALSO THE AUTHOR MOST
RECENTLY OF "INTO THE HANDS OF
THE SOLDIERS: FREEDOM AND CHAOS
IN EGYPT AND THE MIDDLE EAST."
MR. KIRKPATRICK, YOU GET A
SPECIAL FAKE AWARD FROM "THE
RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" FOR STAYING
UP PAST 4:00 A.M. LOCAL TIME TO
BE WITH US TONIGHT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR
REPORTING.
REPORTING. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> AS I MENTIONED, TONS OF NEW