AND CHRIS MATTHEWS HAS YOU COVERED.
COVERED. HARD
HARD "HARDBALL WITH CHRIS MATTHEWS"
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>>> GOOD EVENING.
I’M CHRIS MATTHEWS FROM
WASHINGTON.
WASHINGTON. FEDERAL PROSECUTORS IN NEW YORK
HAVE ACCUSED THE PRESIDENT OF
CRIMINAL VIOLATION OF THE
FEDERAL CAMPAIGN LAWS.
THEY SAY TRUMP DIRECTED --
THAT’S THE WORD -- LAWYER
MICHAEL COHEN TO COVER UP A
CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTION IN THE
FORM OF PAYMENTS TO TWO WOMEN
WITH WHOM HE HAD SEXUAL
RELATIONS.
RELATIONS. THIS COMES FROM THE SOUTHERN
DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, NOT ROBERT
MUELLER, NOT THE SO-CALLED 17
DEMOCRATS THE PRESIDENT SAYS ARE
WORKING AGAINST HIM, NOT THE
DEEP STATE, NOT FROM A
WITCH-HUNT.
WITCH-HUNT. IT’S FROM ONE OF THE TWO
SENTENCING MEMOS FILED IN THE
CASE OF TRUMP’S FORMER LAWYER
MICHAEL COHEN TODAY WHICH ARE
SHEDDING NEW LIGHT ON THE
PRESIDENT’S POTENTIAL LEGAL
EXPOSURE.
EXPOSURE. AS TRUMP’S LONG-TIME FIXER,
COHEN PLEADED GUILTY IN AUGUST
TO CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATIONS
IN MAKING HUSH PAYMENTS TO TWO
WOMEN ON TRUMP’S BEHALF, AND NOW
TONIGHT’S SENTENCING MEMO MAKES
CLEAR THAT, QUOTE, WITH RESPECT
TO BOTH PAYMENTS, COHEN ACTED IN
COORDINATION WITH AND AT THE
DIRECTION OF INDIVIDUAL ONE.
THAT’S THE PRESIDENT.
WE’RE ALSO GETTING NEW INSIGHT
INTO WHAT COHEN HAS TOLD THE
SPECIAL COUNSEL IN THE ONGOING
PROBE OF POTENTIAL COLLUSION
WITH RUSSIA.
WITH RUSSIA. ACCORDING TO THE FILING FROM
MUELLER’S OFFICE, COHEN NOT ONLY
PROVIDED INFORMATION ABOUT THE
MOSCOW REAL ESTATE PROBLEM,
TRUMP TOWER OVER THERE, THAT
TRUMP PURSUED DURING THE
ELECTION, BUT ALSO PROVIDE
INFORMATION ABOUT ATTEMPTS BY
OTHER RUSSIAN NATIONALS TO REACH
THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN.
ACCORDING TO THE MEMO, QUOTE,
COHEN SPOKE WITH A RUSSIAN
NATIONAL WHO CLAIMED TO BE A
TRUSTED PERSON IN THE RUSSIAN
FEDERATION WHO COULD OFFER THE
CAMPAIGN -- HERE’S A PHRASE --
POLITICAL SYNERGY, WORKING
TOGETHER, TRUMP AND RUSSIA
AGAINST HILLARY.
AGAINST HILLARY. PROSECUTORS SAY COHEN PROVIDED
USEFUL INFORMATION PROVIDING
CERTAIN DISSKREETD
CERTAIN DISSKREETD RUSSIA-RELATED MATTERS ACCORDING
TO ITS INVESTIGATION THAT HE
OBTAINED BY VIRTUE OF HIS
REGULAR CONTACT WITH COMPANY
EXECUTIVES.
EXECUTIVES. THAT WAS TRUMP COMPANY
EXECUTIVES.
EXECUTIVES. THAT’S HOW COHEN GOT THE
INFORMATION HE HAS BEEN USING TO
TRY TO SAVE HIMSELF.
AND COHEN ALSO PROVIDED RELEVANT
AND USEFUL INFORMATION
CONCERNING HIS CONTACTS WITH A
PERSON CONNECTED TO THE WHITE
HOUSE ITSELF AFTER JANUARY OF
2017.
2017. HOWEVER, DESPITE COHEN’S
ASSISTANCE, PROSECUTORS IN THE
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
STILL RECOMMENDED A SUBSTANTIAL
TERM OF IMPRISONMENT FOR MICHAEL
COHEN GIVEN THE NATURE OF HIS
CRIMES.
CRIMES. ALSO TONIGHT, PROSECUTORS
DETAILED HOW TRUMP’S FORMER
CAMPAIGN CHAIR PAUL MANAFORT
LIED TO THEM REPEATEDLY WHILE HE
WAS SUPPOSEDLY COOPERATING WITH
THEM.
THEM. WHAT A NEWS NIGHT.
I’M JOINED RIGHT NOW BY KEN
DILANIAN, REPORTER FOR NBC’S
INVESTIGATIVE UNIT, JULIA
AINSLEY, BARBARA McQUADE, A
FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY AT
MICHIGAN.
MICHIGAN. MIMI ROCAH, FORMER U.S.
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY IN THE
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK.
I WANT TO START WITH KEN.
I WANT TO FOCUS ON ONE THING
FIRST.
FIRST. I WANT TO FOCUS ON THE CRIMINAL
VIOLATION OF THE CAMPAIGN LAWS,
THIS EFFORT TO COVER UP WHAT IS
REALLY A CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTION
OF $130,000, $150,000, ADDING IT
UP TO COVER UP THESE AFFAIRS
WITH THESE TWO WOMEN.
THE PRESIDENT DIRECTED THAT
ACTIVITY, ACCORDING TO THIS
MEMORANDUM TODAY.
MEMORANDUM TODAY. KEN?
KEN? >> YES, IN FACT, MICHAEL COHEN
ALREADY STOOD UP IN COURT AND
SAID THAT WHEN HE PLEADED GUILTY
TO THESE CHARGES IN THE SOUTHERN
DISTRICT OF NEW YORK.
BUT WHAT’S DIFFERENT TODAY IS
THE U.S. ATTORNEY’S OFFICE, A
REPRESENTATIVE OF THE UNITED
STATES OF AMERICA IS ENDORSING
THAT VIEW IN BLACK AND WHITE IN
A COURT FILING, THAT COHEN ACTED
IN COORDINATION WITH AND AT THE
DIRECTION OF INDIVIDUAL ONE,
DONALD TRUMP, WHO HAD BECOME THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
NOW THE REASON I’VE BEEN TOLD
IT’S NOT ACCURATE TO CALL HIM AN
UNINDICTED CO-CONSPIRATOR
UNINDICTED CO-CONSPIRATOR BECAUSE THERE STILL IS AN ISSUE
OF CRIMINAL INTENT.
THE WAY THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAW
IS WRITTEN, PROSECUTORS HAVE TO
PROVE FOR A VIOLATION THAT YOU
HAD AN INTENT TO VIOLATE THE
LAW.
LAW. NORMALLY YOU HEAR IGNORANCE OF
THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE.
IN THIS CASE, IGNORANCE OF THE
LAW CAN BE AN EXCUSE.
IF DONALD TRUMP WAS TOLD BY A
LAWYER HEY, THIS PAYMENT IS
OKAY.
OKAY. IT’S NOT A VIOLATION OF THE
CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAW, THAT WOULD
CLEARLY BE A DEFENSE.
BUT THE FACTS OUTLINED HERE
SUGGEST A SCHEME, SUGGEST PEOPLE
WHO KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING
WAS WRONG, PARTICULARLY COHEN.
AND CLEARLY, IF A PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES WAS ABLE TO BE
INDICT
INDICT INDICTED, THIS IS A CASE
PROSECUTORS WOULD PURSUE, TO THE
LAST DOCUMENT, TO THE LAST
WITNESS, CHRIS.
WITNESS, CHRIS. >> JUST TO MAKE YOUR POINT,
AGAIN, THE PROSECUTORS IN THIS
CASE IN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF
NEW YORK, THE FEDERAL
PROSECUTORS BASICALLY NOMINATED
AND CONFIRMED BY THIS REPUBLICAN
SENATE THESE PEOPLE SAY THAT
MICHAEL COHEN HAD CRIMINAL
INTENT.
INTENT. THEY SAID HE KNEW THE LAW, THAT
HE HAD WORKED IN POLITICS.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. >> HE KNEW EXACTLY THIS WAS A
COVER-UP.
COVER-UP. JULIA, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT,
THAT COHEN DIRECTED BY THE
INDIVIDUAL ONE, THE PRESIDENT,
IS ACCUSED OF KNOWING WHAT HE
WAS DOING.
WAS DOING. IT IS POSSIBLE OR PLAUSIBLE TO
ASSUME THAT THE GUY WHO TOLD HIM
WHAT HE WAS DOING DIDN’T KNOW IT
WAS A CRIMINAL ACT, THE
PRESIDENT?
PRESIDENT? >> YEAH, CHRIS, BEFORE I CAME
OUT HERE, I SAW THAT INDIVIDUAL
ONE WAS THE NUMBER ONE TREND OF
TWITTER, AT LEAST IN THIS
REGION.
REGION. IT’S BECAUSE INDIVIDUAL ONE IS
NAMED IN BOTH OF THESE
SENTENCING MEMOS WE’VE SEEN
TONIGHT FROM THE SOUTHERN
DISTRICT AND FROM THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL.
COUNSEL. IN THE MUELLER MEMO, INDIVIDUAL
ONE IS THE OWNER OF THE COMPANY,
THE REAL ESTATE COMPANY THAT
COHEN WORKED FOR THAT.
WOULD BE TRUMP ORGANIZATION THAT
WOULD BE DONALD TRUMP.
AND HE IS THE ONE WHO I’M
READING HERE WOULD HAVE
CONFERRED WITH COHEN ABOUT
REACHING OUT TO THE RUSSIAN
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. THEN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE
PAYMENTS TO THE WOMEN THAT KEN
WAS JUST DISCUSSING, THE
INDIVIDUAL ONE GOES ON TO BECOME
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES.
STATES. PRETTY CLEAR THAT’S DONALD
TRUMP, AND THAT HE ALSO WORKED
WITH HIM, TALKED TO HIM ABOUT
THE PAYMENTS TO THOSE WOMEN.
SO IN A LOT OF WAYS, IT CANNOT
BE UNDERSCORED THAT THESE MEMOS
REALLY AREN’T ABOUT COHEN.
I MEAN, THEY ARE ABOUT COHEN,
BUT THEY REALLY POINT TO THE
PRESIDENT IN A WAY WE HADN’T
SEEN BEFORE.
SEEN BEFORE. >> SURE.
>> SURE. >> AND POINT TO THIS
ADMINISTRATION.
ADMINISTRATION. NOT JUST THE CAMPAIGN, BUT
WHAT’S GOING ON INSIDE THE WHITE
HOUSE.
HOUSE. >> LET ME GO TO BARBARA ON THIS
BECAUSE I THINK THE LANGUAGE IS
VERY STRONG.
VERY STRONG. I WAS REALLY IMPRESSED BY THE
SPIRIT OF THE PROSECUTORS’
LANGUAGE.
LANGUAGE. THEY TALK ABOUT HOW PEOPLE GO
DOOR TO DOOR IN POLITICS, THEY
LICK ENVELOPES THAT.
>> DO ALL THE CUT WORK IN
POLITICS IN AN OPEN AND
TRANSPARENT WAY, BECAUSE THAT’S
WHAT THE LAW AND OUR WHOLE
DEMOCRACY IS ABOUT, TRANSPARENT
POLITICS.
POLITICS. THIS SKULDUGGERY, THIS MIDDLE OF
THE NIGHT GETTING THE CATCH AND
KILL, GETTING THEM TO KILL THE
STORY ABOUT THESE AFFAIRS, ALL
THESE DONE PURPOSEFULLY AND
DELIBERATELY AND INTRICATELY TO
COVER IT UP, TO MAKE IT
NONTRANSPARENT.
NONTRANSPARENT. THEY REALLY THREW THE BOOK AT
THIS.
THIS. THEY TOOK THIS CAMPAIGN
VIOLATION AS DEAD CRIMINAL
ACTIVITY.
ACTIVITY. >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT A
PROSECUTOR IS REQUIRED TO DO IN
A SENTENCING MEMORANDUM IS
DESCRIBE TO THE JUDGE THE NATURE
AND SERIOUSNESS OF THE OFFENSE,
AND HERE THEY DESCRIBE THIS AS A
VERY SERIOUS OFFENSE.
THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF CAMPAIGN
FINANCE LAWS IS TO PROVIDE
TRANSPARENCY AND WHOSE PAYING
FOR THINGS AND HOW THEY’RE BEING
RUN.
RUN. AND, IN FACT, THEY USE THE WORD
CLOUD, THAT MICHAEL COHEN AND
INDIVIDUAL ONE WENT OUT OF THEIR
WAY AND TOOK DELIBERATE STEPS TO
CLOUD THAT TRANSPARENCY BY
MAKING THESE PAYMENTS TO HIDE
THE TRUTH FROM THE PUBLIC SO
THAT THEY COULD CAST AN INFORMED
VOTE.
VOTE. WHEN WE HAVE A DEMOCRACY, IT’S
BASED ON THE ABILITY OF VOTERS
TO CAST AN INFORMED VOTE.
AND WHEN YOU’RE HIDING THE TRUTH
FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THAT
THEN THAT DEMOCRACY BREAKS DOWN.
THAT’S A SERIOUS CRIME.
>> TONIGHT’S MULTIPLE COURT
FILINGS APPEAR TO INDICATE THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP HIMSELF COULD BE
FACING NEW LEGAL EXPOSURE,
INCLUDING IMPLICATIONS IN A
FEDERAL CRIME.
FEDERAL CRIME. THE PRESIDENT OR INDIVIDUAL ONE
AS HE IS CALLED HERE RESPONDED
TONIGHT WITH A SHOW OF
CONFIDENCE.
CONFIDENCE. HE TWEETED, "THIS IS OUTLANDISH.
TOTALLY CLEARS THE PRESIDENT.
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. WELL, THAT’S CRAZY TALK.
LET ME GO TO MIMI ON THIS.
YOU KNOW WHAT’S INTERESTING?
HOW CHARACTER AND MORALITY ALL
COME TO PLAY HERE.
THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES
PROGRESSIVES PLAY THIS GAME AND
SOMETIMES CONSERVATIVES PLAY
THIS GAME AND TRUMPITES,
WHATEVER YOU CALL THEM.
THEY FIRST, THE BEHAVIOR DOESN’T
MATTER.
MATTER. IT’S ALL ABOUT WHETHER YOUR
POLITICS AND IDEOLOGY CONFORMS
TO THE CANDIDATE.
IT DOESN’T MATTER WHO THE
PERSON.
PERSON. HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A GUY
AND HIS AFFAIRS AND THE WAY HIS
CHARACTER SHOWS THAT HAVING THE
AFFAIRS AND HIS CHARACTER IS
SHOWING AND COVERING UP THE
AFFAIRS AND HOW HE USE HIS
LAWYER TO DO IT, AND HOW HE USE
HIS MONEY TO DO IT, AND NOW IT’S
ALL ABOUT PROTECTING HIS CHANCE
TO HOLD PUBLIC OFFICE.
IT ALL INTEGRATES TOGETHER.
THAT’S WHAT I FIND FASCINATING.
AND THE PROSECUTORS TALK LIKE
THAT.
THAT. THEY HIT THAT GUY MORALLY.
THAT’S THE WAY I READ THAT
DOCUMENT TONIGHT.
DOCUMENT TONIGHT. IT WASN’T SOME COLD SECULAR
DOCUMENT.
DOCUMENT. IT’S SAYING THIS IS WHAT BRINGS
THE TOXICITY INTO AMERICAN
POLITICS, THESE AFFAIRS BEING
PAID OFF, WOMEN BEING PAID OFF,
POWER BEING USED TO SNUFF OUT
THE TRUTH AND NOT ENLIGHTEN
DEMOCRACY, BUT DENY THE TRUTH TO
DEMOCRACY AND THE VOTERS.
YOUR THOUGHTS?
YOUR THOUGHTS? >> ABSOLUTELY, CHRIS.
THIS IS A TYPICAL SOUTHERN
DISTRICT, AND FRANKLY, ANY U.S.
ATTORNEY OFFICE TYPE OF DOCUMENT
WHERE YOU TALK ABOUT THE PURPOSE
OF THE LAWS AND THE SPIRIT OF
THE LAWS, AND THAT’S IMPORTANT,
AS BARB SAID, TO EXPLAIN TO THE
JUDGE IN TERMS OF SENTENCING.
AND JUDGE PAULEY IS A JUDGE WHO
TAKES THOSE LAWS SERIOUSLY.
YOU KNOW, I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT
TO POINT OUT HERE THAT ONE OF
THE -- THERE WAS A PHRASE USED
IN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT MEMO
ABOUT THE EVIDENCE AGAINST COHEN
BEING, QUOTE, OVERWHELMING.
AND THAT HE DIDN’T COOPERATE OUT
OF SORT OF THE GOODNESS OF HIS
HEART OR SPIRIT, BUT BECAUSE HE
WAS REALLY CAUGHT RED-HANDED.
SO FOR TRUMP TO SAY THAT THIS
CLEARS HIM, WE DON’T KNOW ALL OF
THE EVIDENCE THAT IS, QUOTE,
OVERWHELMING AGAINST COHEN, BUT
I’M WILLING TO GO OUT ON A LIMB
HERE RIGHT NOW AND SAY THAT
GIVEN WHAT THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT
HAS PUT AS KEN SAID IN BLACK AND
WHITE AND WRITING ABOUT THE
PRESIDENT’S ACTIONS, I’M WILLING
TO BET THAT THERE IS GOOD
EVIDENCE THAT TRUMP HAD THE
REQUISITE INTENT TO COMMIT THIS
CRIME AS WELL.
>> OKAY.
>> OKAY. AND I’LL GO OUT ON A LIMB AND
SAY THIS IS THE BIGGEST ACT OF
SELF-DELUSION SINCE BAGHDAD BOB
WHO SAID THEY WERE WINNING THE
WAR.
WAR. I WANT TO BRING IN ARI MELBER,
WHO HAS BEEN BRILLIANT ON THIS
TONIGHT.
TONIGHT. HE IS THE HOST OF "THE BEAT."
ARI, I LOVE THE WAY YOU PUT IT
UP TONIGHT.
UP TONIGHT. I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE DEEPER
QUESTION.
QUESTION. WHEN TRUMP GOT AWAY FOR A FEW
WEEKS WITH THE "ACCESS
HOLLYWOOD" TAPE, THAT EVERYBODY
SAID WAS GOING TO KILL HIM,
REINCE PRIEBUS WAS GOING TO WALK
OVER IT.
OVER IT. SMART REPUBLICANS, DECENT
REPUBLICANS SAID THE SMELL IS
TOO TERRIBLE HERE TO WITHSTAND
AND SURVIVE.
AND SURVIVE. AND HERE WE HAVE A PRESIDENT
BASICALLY BEING CHARGED BY THE
FEDERAL DISTRICT OF NEW YORK UP
THERE WITH BASICALLY COVERING UP
A COUPLE AFFAIRS WITH MONEY AND
POWER AND DOING IT IN A WAY THAT
I CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS CRAP.
THIS IS STUFF I GET AWAY WITH.
I GET THIS FIXER LAWYER HERE,
COHEN.
COHEN. HE DOES THIS CRAP FOR ME.
I GET A MAGAZINE THAT IS GOING
TO BUY THIS CRAP AND KILL IT FOR
ME.
ME. I GOT IT ALL WIRED.
I CAN GET AWAY WITH IT, JUST
LIKE HE SAID IN THE "ACCESS
HOLLYWOOD."
HOLLYWOOD." I CAN GET AWAY WITH IT.
I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING THE
WAY YOU TALKED ABOUT IT TONIGHT.
>> WELL, YOU JUST LAID IT OUT,
CHRIS.
CHRIS. THAT ATTITUDE THAT WAS CAUGHT ON
TAPE WAS NOT JUST BRAGGING ABOUT
SEXUAL ASSAULT, WHICH ITSELF IS
POTENTIALLY FELONIOUS CONDUCT,
IT WAS ALSO AS YOU JUST PUT IT
HIS BELIEF THAT THEY’LL LET YOU
GET AWAY WITH IT.
WELL, THAT’S NOT HOW THOSE
PEOPLE FELT, BECAUSE MANY OF
THEM SPOKE OUT.
THAT’S NOW KNOT HOW PROSECUTORS
IN NEW YORK HAVE DEEMED THAT
CONDUCT.
CONDUCT. THEY SAY MICHAEL COHEN HAD THE
SAME MENTALITY.
SAME MENTALITY. IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION MENTALITY, WE’LL
JUST GET AWAY WITH IT.
THE RULES DON’T APPLY.
THIS WAS 2 x 4 STRIKING MICHAEL
COHEN IN THE HEAD OVER AND OVER
TODAY.
TODAY. AND THIS IS SOMEONE WHO WENT OUT
THERE AND DID MEDIA LEAKS AND
TRIED TO SAY HE WAS DOING BOTH
WAYS OR HE WAS GOING TO DO THIS
BECAUSE IT WAS FOR THE GOOD OF
THE COUNTRY OR HE SAID HE WASN’T
TAKING A PARDON, AS IF THIS WAS
SOMETHING FOR HIM THAT IS
SITTING AROUND IN A SILVER
PLATTER, THE PRIVILEGE OF THAT.
THIS IS THE FEDERAL PROSECUTOR
WAS SAYING, NO IT DOESN’T WORK
LIKE THAT.
LIKE THAT. YOU’RE BUSTED.
YOU’RE BUSTED. THAT’S WHY YOU’RE IN TROUBLE.
YOU’RE BUSTED, THAT’S WHY YOU’RE
SORT OF COOPERATING.
AND IT STILL WASN’T GOOD ENOUGH
SO THAT’S WHY YOU SHOULD DO
TIME.
TIME. IT’S GOING TO ROYAL THE CITY
YOU’RE IN, THE MANAFORT FILING
WHICH IS GETTING ATTENTION,
ALTHOUGH IT’S PARTLY REDACTED.
CHRIS, IT SAYS ON HERE ON PAGE
9, WE ONLY DEALT WITH THIS
BRIEFLY, PAUL MANAFORT
AUTHORIZED PEOPLE TO SPEAK WITH
THE ADMINISTRATION ON HIS BEHALF
AND LIED TO MULLER ABOUT IT.
HE WAS IN CONTACT WITH OFFICIALS
IN 2018.
IN 2018. WHO ARE THEY?
DID THEY LIE ABOUT IT?