THIS POINT.
NEIL: SO FAR.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
LET'S GO TO FORMER WHITE HOUSE
PRESS SECRETARY TO BUSH 43, AR
ARIFLEISCHER.
THE SAUDIS OBVIOUSLY WANT TO PUT
THIS BEHIND THEM BUT AREN'T
PEOPLE GOING TO CALL FOR
PUNISHMENT IF KHASHOGGI WAS
TARGET E
TARGETED?
>> WELL, THEY WILL.
IF WE HAVE INTERCEPTS, IF
THERE'S EVIDENCE HE PERSONALLY
ORDERED THE ATTACK AND THEN
PARTICIPATED IN THE INITIAL LIE
ABOUT WHAT TOOK PLACE WHEN HE
SAID HE WALKED OUT THE BACK
DOOR, NOBODY SAW HIM, THEN IT
REALLY IS A PROBLEM.
NEIL, THIS IS A TERRIBLE CLASH
BETWEEN OUR NATION'S MORALITY
WHICH WE MUST ALWAYS FIGHT FOR
AND REPRESENT ABROAD, AND THE
REALITY OF THE DIRTY MIDDLE EAST
AND OUR PROBLEMS WITH IRAN.
WHAT I WANT TO TRY TO FIND THE
MIDDLE LINE ON HERE IS HOW TO
REPRESENT OUR MORALITY WITHOUT
DOING ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO
BENEFIT IRAN, WHICH CARRIES OUT
FAR MORE ATTACKS AND MURDERS AND
DESPOTIC ACTS THROUGHOUT THE
MIDDLE EAST THAN SAUDI ARABIA
DOES.
WE'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO
WALK THAT MIDDLE LINE.
NEIL: THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE
WHO EMBRACE THAT IRANIAN DEAL
AND KNOWING FULL WELL THE
COUNTRY WE WERE DEALING WITH,
THEN OUR FINGERING THIS ONE SO
IT IS A LITTLE ODD, BUT IT IS
WHAT IT IS.
I'M WONDERING WHEN YOU WORKED
WITH PRESIDENT BUSH AND
OBVIOUSLY YOU HAD TO WEIGH THOSE
WHO WERE GOING TO PARTICIPATE
AND HELP US IN THE WAR IN IRAQ
AND ELSEWHERE, HOW DO YOU
BALANCE THAT OUT BETWEEN
COUNTRIES WHOSE LEADERS YOU
CAN'T CHOOSE ANYWAY, YOU CAN'T
PICK AND CHOOSE YOUR FRIENDS AND
ENEMIES, FOR THAT MATTER, AND
LOOKING THE OTHER WAY?
>> SURE.
I THINK YOU SAW IT MORE
PRONOUNCED IN THE OBAMA ERA WHEN
EGYPT WENT THROUGH ITS SPRING
REVOLUTION AND THEY THREW OUT
THE FORMER MILITARY DICTATOR OF
EGYPT, MUBARAK, AND REPLACED HIM
WITH THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD.
DID ANYBODY END UP BETTER IN
THAT DEAL?
THE ANSWER IS NO.
FINALLY, THERE WAS ANOTHER
MILITARY COUP AGAINST THE MUSLIM
BROTHERHOOD AND NOW YOU HAVE
GENERAL SISI, AN AMERICAN ALLY.
THIS IS THE COMPLICATION OF
DEALING IN A MESSY AREA WHERE,
IF WE HOLD OUR MORALITY AND
AMERICAN STANDARDS TO BE WHAT
MUST BE APPLIED EVERYWHERE,
ANYWHERE AROUND THE WORLD, WE
SHOULD BRING HOME OUR
AMBASSADORS AND STOP DOING
RELATIONS WITH RUSSIA, WITH
CHINA, WITH EGYPT, WITH SAUDI
ARABIA, HALF THE MIDDLE EAST.
I COULD GO ON AND NAME OTHER
NATIONS AROUND THE WORLD.
THAT'S WHY I WANT TO TRY TO
FIGURE OUT WHAT THE MIDDLE LINE
IS HERE.
I SUSPECT IT'S GOING TO COME
DOWN TO INDIVIDUALLY SANCTIONING
THE 15 PEOPLE WHO WERE SENT TO
TURKEY TO CARRY OUT THIS ATTACK.
SOME TYPE OF ECONOMIC SANCTION
AGAINST SAUDI ARABIA AND THEN
WE'LL SEE WHERE THE FUTURE LIES
FROM THERE.
AGAIN, IF WE TAKE SEVERE ACTION
AGAINST SAUDI ARABIA AND IT
GIVES IRAN THE UPPER HAND IN THE
MIDDLE EAST POWER STRUGGLE, WE
WILL ALL BE WORSE OFF FOR IT,
PARTICULARLY WE AMERICANS.
NEIL: WE ARE GETTING AN
ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL SAYING
THE U.S. HAS AN IMPORTANT
RELATIONSHIP WITH SAUDI ARABIA,
BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS
IGNORING OTHER ISSUES WITH THE
SAUDIS, PRESUMABLY THIS ONE.
I'M WONDERING, IT COMES ON THE
SAME DAY MARCO RUBIO HAS SAID IT
IS WORTH BLOWING UP A
RELATIONSHIP OVER THIS.
IS IT?
>> IT'S NOT.
THE CONSEQUENCES OF BLOWING
THINGS UP WITH SAUDI ARABIA IS
IF THE SAUDI ARABIAN LEADERSHIP
WERE TO FALL, IF ALL OF A SUDDEN
WE HAVE INSTABILITY ON THE SAUDI
PENINSULA, IT ENHANCES IRAN'S
ROLE WHICH THEY ARE DEEPLY
INVOLVED IN YEMEN, WHICH IS A
CHOKE POINT FOR THE PERSIAN
GULF.
DO YOU REALLY WANT TO GIVE IRAN
THE UPPER HAND IN ALL THINGS
MIDDLE EAST?
YOU HAVE TO BE COGNIZANT OF THE
BROADER RAMIFICATIONS OF ANY
STEP YOU TAKE, AND THAT'S WHY I
SUPPORT SOMETHING THAT'S AN
INTERMEDIATE SANCTION THAT IS A
PROPER MEASUREMENT OF OUR
MORALITY THAT DOESN'T PUT THE
SAUDIS INTO ANY GREATER DANGER
THAN ENHANCES THE IRANIANS.
NEIL: YOU CAN TELL FROM THE
COMMENTS COMING OUT OF THE WHITE
HOUSE, INCLUDING NOW THE VICE
PRESIDENT, THAT THEY ARE SORT OF
BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE
ON THIS.
IT'S SAYING TODAY, THIS IS VICE
PRESIDENT, THEY WILL BE SPEAKING
TO SECRETARY OF STATE POMPEO
LATER TODAY.
THE PRESIDENT HAS ALREADY SAID
WE ARE GOING TO GET TO THE
BOTTOM OF WHAT'S IMPORTANT AND
THE WORLD KNOWS THE TRUTH AND
THE FACTS, IF HE WAS MURDERED,
REFERRING TO KHASHOGGI, THE
"WASHINGTON POST" JOURNALIST, TO
KNOW WHO'S RESPONSIBLE, EVEN
MORE IMPORTANT THAT HE WAS A
MEMBER OF A FREE AND INDEPENDENT
PRESS, AN ACT OF VIOLENCE SHOULD
BE CONDEMNED.
ALSO A MEMBER OF THE PRESS, WE
ARE GOING TO DEMAND ANSWERS THE
WORLD DESERVES.
THE WORLD DESERVES ANSWERS.
LIKE A LITTLE STRING-ON SENTENCE
THERE, BUT OBVIOUSLY THE
ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO GET
AHEAD OF THIS.
WHAT IS AT RISK IN RESPONDING
TOO SOON?
HOW DO YOU HANDLE THAT?
>> WELL, I THOUGHT THE PRESIDENT
HANDLED THIS WELL, FRANKLY.
I THOUGHT HIS INITIAL REACTION
SAYING THAT HE HAS SEVERE
PUNISHMENT, HE WAS VERY UPSET
ABOUT IT, WAS THE RIGHT TONE TO
TAKE, AND YOU DO HAVE TO LET
SOME INFORMATION COME -- THE
FACTS AND THE TRUTH TO DEVELOP.
I'M NOT SURE I WOULD TAKE
EVERYTHING TURKEY SAYS AT FACE
VALUE.
TURKEY IS A DESPOTIC NATION AND
ALLY WITH IRAN IN MANY WAYS.
THEY HAVE THEIR OWN
ANTI-AMERICAN INTERESTS.
WE REMEMBER WHEN TURKEY BEAT UP
PROTESTERS IN AN AMERICAN PARK.
THE PRESIDENT OF TURKEY,
ERDOGAN, SENT HIS OWN THUGS TO
BEAT UP PROTESTERS ON OUR SOIL.
SO TURKEY IS A LITTLE SUSPECT,
TOO.
WE HAVE INTELLIGENCE
CAPABILITIES.
WE WILL BE ABLE TO SORT OUT
WHATEVER WE CAN SORT OUT, LISTEN
TO WHAT THE SAUDIS AND THE TURKS
SAY.
THAT'S WHY THE PRESIDENT SHOULD
ALLOW FACTS TO DEVELOP AS FULLY
AS FACTS CAN EVER BE DEVELOPED
IN A CONVOLUTED MIDDLE EAST, AND
MAKE THE RIGHT ACTION AFTER
THAT.
BUT ALSO NOTE, IT'S IN LARGE
PART BECAUSE KHASHOGGI WAS A
JOURNALIST THAT IT'S CREATED
SUCH IRE, SUCH MORAL IRE AMONG
THE AMERICAN PRESS CORPS,
PROPERLY SO.
BUT THE AMERICAN PRESS CORPS
DOES NOT DEMONSTRATE SIMILAR IRE
WHEN YOU SEE NORTH KOREA ENGAGE
IN THE BEHAVIOR IT'S BEHAVED IN
AROUND THE WORLD.
IRAN, THE MURDERS THAT IRAN HAS
COMMITTED AGAINST PROTESTERS IN
IRAN.
SO THIS IS ALSO BEING FORCED
BECAUSE OF PRESS PRESSURE AND
ANY GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO BE ABLE
TO MAKE A RIGHT LONG-TERM
DECISION FOR OUR NATIONAL
INTERESTS, NOT JUST IN RESPONSE
TO PRESS PRESSURE.
NEIL: WELL PUT.
YOU'RE RIGHT.
EVERYONE EMBRACED A DEAL WITH
IRAN TO DENUCLEARIZE AND ALL OF
THAT.
IRAN OF COURSE, A COUNTRY GUILTY
OF FAR, FAR GREATER HEINOUS
ACTS.
NO ONE CAN DEBATE THAT.