IT DOESNT DO ANYTHING FOR ME.
ALL I DID WAS COME OFF AND GET
ARRESTED.
>> ROBERT WILLIAMS TESTIFIED
BEFORE A HOUSE JUDICIARY
SUBCOMMITTEE THIS WEEK ABOUT HOW
THE FACIAL RECOGNITION SYSTEM
USED BY THE DETROIT POLICE
DEPARTMENT LEAD TO HIS WRONGFUL
ARREST IN JANUARY OF 2020.
HE FILED A FEDERAL LAWSUIT
AGAINST THE CITY AND THE POLICE
SEEKING DAMAGES AND A BAN ON THE
USE OF TECHNOLOGY.
AS MORE CASES SURFACE, THERES
GROWING CONCERN THAT FACIAL
RECOGNITION COULD PUT MORE
INNOCENT PEOPLE IN JAIL,
ESPECIALLY BLACK PEOPLE.
JOINING ME NOW IS ROBERT WILLIAM
WHO IS SUING THE DETROIT POLICE
DEPARTMENT AND HIS ATTORNEY BILL
MAHER OF THE ACLU.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING
TO "THE SUNDAY SHOW."
MR. WILLIAMS, LET ME START WITH
YOU.
JUST ASK YOU THIS, WHEN THEY
ARRESTED YOU, DID THEY TELL YOU
IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE USE OF
FACIAL RECOGNITION?
>> NO.
THEY DIDNT.
THEY WOULDNT TELL ME WHY I WAS
ARRESTED.
I HAD TO -- I TOLD THE GAL -- TO
BRING A WARRANT. BECAUSE I DIDNT BELIEVE THAT HE
BECAUSE I DIDNT BELIEVE THAT HE
WAS ACTUALLY A POLICE OFFICER.
HE WAS LIKE YOURE UNDER ARREST.
I WAS LIKE FOR WHAT.
HE WAS LIKE ARE YOU ROBERT
WILLIAMS?
I WAS LIKE YES. HE WAS LIKE YOURE UNDER ARREST.
HE WAS LIKE YOURE UNDER ARREST.
HE WAS LIKE I GOT A WARRANT
HERE.
>> DID HE SAY WHAT YOU WERE
BEING ARRESTED FOR?
WHAT WAS THE CRIME?
NOT AT ALL?
>> NO.
>> I ASKED HIM ON THE WAY DOWN
THERE AND I ASKED WHAT DID HE
SAY I STOLE?
HE SAID I CANT TELL YOU THAT.
ALL WE KNOW IS THAT YOU HAD A
WARRANT AND YOURE UNDER ARREST.
IM THINKING THIS IS CRAZY.
>> I SHOULD NOTE WE REACHED OUT
TO THE DETROIT POLICE DEPARTMENT
FOR COMMENT AND WE DIDNT GET
ONE.
WE KNOW FROM THE DETROIT NEWS,
ACCORDING TO THE DETROIT NEWS,
DETROITS MAYOR AND FORMER
POLICE CHIEF HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED
THAT WILLIAMS ARREST WAS A
MISTAKE AND SAY THAT NEW
PROTOCOLS ARE IN PLACE TO AVOID
SIMILAR INCIDENTS.
MR. MAHER, LET ME BRING YOU INTO
THE CONVERSATION.
IS IT ENOUGH?
>> NOWHERE CLOSE TO ENOUGH.
YOU KNOW, THE IDENTIFICATION
THAT MR. WILLIAMS WAS A SUSPECT
SPECIFICALLY SAID ON IT THAT IT
WAS TO BE USED AS AN
INVESTIGATIVE LEAD ONLY.
NOT AS A BASIS FOR ARREST.
AND THAT DIDNT STOP THE DETROIT
POLICE FROM TAKING THAT
IDENTIFICATION AND INDUCTING
COMPLETELY INADEQUATE LINE UP
WITH SOMEBODY WHO WASNT EVEN AN
EYE WITNESS.
SOMEBODY WHO REVIEWED SECURITY
FOOTAGE OF THE ALLEGED THEFT AND
ARRESTED MR. WILLIAMS BAITSED ON
THAT.
IN OTHER WORDS, SOME OF THOSE,
YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT POLICE SAY
WOULD STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING.
WERE ALREADY IN PLACE AND THEY
WERE COMPLETELY DISREGARDED.
SHODDY TECHNOLOGY MAKES SHODDY
INVESTIGATIONS.
THATS WHAT HAPPENED HERE.
ITS WHAT IS GOING TO KEEP
HAPPENING.
>> AND YOU KNOW THIS CASE, THIS
CASE HERE WITH MR. WILLIAMS
ISNT THE ONLY ONE IN THE
COUNTRY CASE OR EVEN INCIDENT.
THERE WAS A BLACK ENTERPRISE.
THERES A STORY ABOUT BLACK GIRL
BANNED FROM MICHIGAN SKATING
RINK BECAUSE FACIAL RECOGNITION
SOFTWARE MISIDENTIFIED HER.
SHE HAD NEVER BEEN TO THAT
SKATING RINK BEFORE BUT THEY
TRIED TO BAN HER FROM THAT.
HOW SUCCESSFUL DO YOU THINK
FOLKS LIKE YOUR CLIENT, MR.
WILLIAMS, AND OTHERS AROUND THE
COUNTRY IN SORT OF CURTAILING
THE USE OF FACIAL RECOGNITION BY
POLICE DEPARTMENTS?
>> YEAH, I MEAN, WHAT ITS
SHOWING IS WHAT EVERYBODY KNOWS.
WHAT THE VENDORS KNOW.
WHAT THE POLICE KNOW.
WHAT WE KNOW.
THIS TECHNOLOGY IS COMPLETE DB
ITS ABOUT A HUNDRED TIMES WORSE
AT IDENTIFYING PEOPLE OF COLOR
AS IT IS IDENTIFYING WHITE MEN.
ITS A TECHNOLOGY THAT WAS
DEVELOPED USING PRIMARILY WHITE
FACES AS A RESULT ITS RACIST IN
ITS APPLICATION.
IT FAILS TO PROPERLY RECOGNIZE
PEOPLE OF COLOR AND THATS WHY
WERE SEEING THIS TIME AND TIME
AGAIN.
ITS NOT JUST THE INCIDENT OF
THE ROLLER SKATING RINK YOU
DESCRIBED EITHER BUT TWO KNOWN
BLACK MEN OTHER THAN MR.
WILLIAMS WHO HAVE BEEN FALSELY
ARRESTED BECAUSE OF FACIAL
RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY.
>> AND YOU KNOW, I DIDNT REALIZE WE ALSO HAD TAPE.
REALIZE WE ALSO HAD TAPE.
LETS LISTEN TO THAT.
JULIA ROBERTSON AND HER HUSBAND
DEREK ARE CONSIDERING LEGAL
ACTION AGAINST THE SKATING RINK
AFTER THEIR 14-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER
WAS MISIDENTIFIED BY THE
BUSINESSS FACIAL RECOGNITION
TECHNOLOGY.
>> AND SO, YOU KNOW, TO THAT
POINT, MR. WILLIAMS, GIVEN YOUR
EXPERIENCE, YOU WOULD AGREE WITH
THAT TEENS MOTHER THAT
BASICALLY YOU WERE RACIALLY
PROFILED BY THE DETROIT POLICE
AS A RESULT OF THEIR FACIAL
RECOGNITION.
>> YEAH, I WOULD SAY SO.
BECAUSE I DONT KNOW HOW YOU
CAN -- A VIDEO OF SOMEBODY AND
ISSUE AN ARREST WARRANT.
I DONT KNOW HOW YOU CAN SAY
THATS EVIDENCE THAT SOMEBODY
SHOULD BE ARRESTED SO, YEAH, IF
YOU USE THIS TECHNOLOGY TO DO
THE JOB OF POLICE OFFICER THEN
ITS WRONG.
IT SHOULD -- AT LEAST IT SHOULD
BE USED.
DONT LOOK FOR A RULE SAYING
WERE GOING TO USE IT AS AN
INVESTIGATIVE LEAD AND THE NEXT
THING YOU DO IS ARREST THAT
PERSON AND THEM SAY OH, OKAY.
WE MIGHT HAVE MADE A MISTAKE AND
GOT IT WRONG.
THATS CRAZY.
IF IT WAS ANOTHER CRIME OR A
LITTLE MORE MADAM CHAIR.
I DONT KNOW IF I WOULD BE HOME
RIGHT NOW.
IF IT WAS MURDER OR THEY SAID I
SHOT SOMEBODY OR SOMETHING.
>> MR. WILLIAMS, WERE GOING TO
KEEP OUR EYE ON YOUR CASE AND