PROCESS AND ITS A DONE DEAL,
WHICH WILL GIVE US THE MAJORITY
BACK.
WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT VOTERS
WANT.
THATS THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM.
REPUBLICANS ARE WILLING TO
SECURE POWER BY GERRYMANDERING,
AND VOTER SUPPRESSION, WHATEVER
OTHER MEANS THEY CAN, SO YOU CAN
CHOOSE FORTIFYING DEMOCRACY OR
CHOOSE WORKING WITH REPUBLICANS,
BUT I DONT SEE HOW YOU CAN
CHOOSE BOTH.
ERIC HOLDER SERVED IN THE OBAMA
ADMINISTRATION AS THE 82nd
ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED
STATES.
HE NOW CHAIRS THE NATIONAL
DEMOCRATIC REDISTRICTING
COMMITTEE WORKING TO END
GERRYMANDERING AND STOP VOTER
SUPPRESSION IN THE NEXT
ELECTION, AND HE JOINS ME NOW.
I WANT TO START ASKING YOU ABOUT
THAT QUOTE BY RONNY JACKSON.
THAT IS A WIDELY SHARED VIEW OF
HOUSE REPUBLICANS, THEYRE VERY
CONFIDENT THEYRE GOING TO TAKE
THE HOUSE, AND THE REASON THEY
ARE ISNT NECESSARILY BECAUSE
POLITICAL WIND IS IN THEIR
FAVOR.
THEY CAN CALL ENOUGH SEATS JUST
FOR REDISTRICTING IN STATES THEY
CONTROL.
SHOULD WE BE OKAY WITH THAT AS
THE MEANS BY WHICH A PARTY TAKES
POWER?
>> NO, OBVIOUSLY WE SHOULD NOT
BE OKAY WITH THAT.
THATS SOMETHING WE HAVE BEEN
FIGHTING AT THE NDRC IN JANUARY
OF 17.
HES RIGHT, IN THE SENSE THAT
THAT IS WHAT REPUBLICANS DID.
THE LAST TIME WE DID IT IN 2011,
THEY PUT IN PLACE GERRYMANDERING
THAT HAS LASTED FOR THE COURSE
OF THE DECADE.
ITS A GERRYMANDER THATS LED TO
REPUBLICANS IN THAT FIRST CYCLE
AFTER REDISTRICTING, THE
TWOOEFRL2012
ELECTIONS, REPUBLICANS GOT
1.2 MILLION FEWER VOTES FOR THE
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES THAN DEMOCRATS
DID, AND YET GOT 33 MORE SEATS.
WE LOOKED AT WISCONSIN.
WHERE DEMOCRATS HAVE GOTTEN 54%
OF THE VOTE, BOTH FOR CONGRESS
AND STATE LEGISLATURE AND END UP
WITH A THIRD OF THE SEATS, AND
SO THE POSSIBILITY OF A
GERRYMANDERING TO ACHIEVE THE
RESULTS THAT WE SAW IN 2011 IS
THERE AND IS SOMETHING THAT HAS
TO BE MET.
IT HAS NOT GOTTEN SUFFICIENT
MEDIA ATTENTION.
IT HAS NOT GOTTEN SUFFICIENT
ATTENTION AROUND THE COUNTRY.
WE FOCUS ON VOTING RIGHTS, AND I
GET THAT.
THAT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.
IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN HAVE
EVERYBODY FIGHT THEIR WAY
THROUGH ALL OF THEIR
OBSTRUCTIONS THAT REPUBLICANS
ARE GOING TO PUT IN PLACE, AND
RUN INTO A WALL OF
GERRYMANDERING THAT WILL
BASICALLY NEGATE THE
PARTICIPATION OF HUGE NUMBERS OF
PEOPLE, AND NOT ONLY PEOPLE OF
COLOR.
WE GOT TO GET AWAY FROM THIS
NOTION THAT SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER,
THIS IS A BLACK FIGHT OR THIS IS
A FIGHT FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR.
THIS IS AN AMERICAN ISSUE.
THIS IS ABOUT THE KIND OF
DEMOCRACY THAT WE WANT TO HAVE.
THIS IS ABOUT KEEPING OUR SYSTEM
CONSISTENT WITH OUR FOUNDING
IDEALS.
THIS IS SOMETHING EVERYBODY
OUGHT TO BE FOCUSED ON,
EVERYBODY NEEDS TO LEARN ABOUT,
AND ITS WHY I FOCUSED ON
FIGHTING AGAINST PARTISAN AND
RACIAL GERRYMANDERING IN MY POST
GOVERNMENT LIFE.
>> YEAH, AND I WANT TO FOCUS ON
THAT FOR A SECOND BECAUSE
THERES A REALLY IMPORTANT
ASPECT TO THIS.
SO WHEN JOE MANCHIN SAYS, LOOK,
ITS AN 800 PAGE BILL, ITS
TRUE, THE FOR THE PEOPLE ACT HAS
A LOT OF PROVISIONS, A LOT OF
CAMPAIGN FINANCE STUFF, THERES
VOTING ACCESS BUT INDEPENDENT,
BASICALLY INDEPENDENT
COMMISSIONS, NONPARTISAN
GERRYMANDERING IS A BIG PART OF
THAT BILL, AND IT JUST SEEMS TO
ME HEY, THERES TWO THINGS TO
NOTE ABOUT THAT.
ONE IS, IT REALLY WOULD BE
NONPARTISAN IN THE SENSE THAT
THERE ARE STATES THAT DEMOCRATS
CONTROL WHERE THEY COULD
PROBABLY PUT THE SCREWS TO
REPUBLICANS ON REDISTRICTING,
AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE
INDEPENDENT COMMISSIONS TOO.
IT GENUINELY IS THE PROPOSAL IN
THAT BILL, A LEGITIMATELY
NEUTRAL MEANS OF HANDLING THIS
PROBLEM.
>> AND ITS IN FACT THE THING
THAT I THINK DISTINGUISHES US AT
THE NDRC FROM THOSE WHO OPPOSE
US.
WE SUPPORT 100% THE
IMPLEMENTATION OF NONPARTISAN,
INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING
COMMISSIONS.
IN FACT, WE HAVE FOUGHT TO GET
THEM PUT IN PLACE IN MICHIGAN,
IN COLORADO, IN UTAH.
GOT ONE IN MISSOURI FOR THE
REPUBLICANS THEN GOT IT.
REPUBLICANS NEVER SAY THEY ARE
IN FAVOR OF THAT.
THEY UNDERSTAND THEYVE GOT TO
KEEP THEIR THUMB ON THE SCALE.
THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN ABILITY TO
IMPACT THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS
IN AN UNFAIR WAY IF THEY ARE
GOING TO HOLD ON TO THE POWER
THAT THEY GOT ILLEGITIMATELY IN
2011.
SO YEAH, INDEPENDENT COMMISSIONS
ARE, I THINK, THE BEST WAY TO GO
ABOUT THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS,
AND THAT IS A CORE PART OF THE
FOR THE PEOPLE ACT.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT, I
MEAN, DO YOU HAVE ADVICE TO
STATE LEGISLATORS CONTROLLED BY
DEMOCRATS, BECAUSE IT DOES SEEM
TO ME, AND I HAVE LOOKED AT
PEOPLE PLAYING WITH MAPS IN
PLACES LIKE NEW MEXICO, FOR
EXAMPLE, WHERE, YOU KNOW,
TRIFECTA DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT
KS TRY TO DO WHAT REPUBLICANS
HAVE DONE IN WISCONSIN WHICH IS
BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, PUT THE
SCREWS TO YOUR OPPONENTS.
USE THE POWER YOU HAVE TO PAD
YOUR NASCARMARGINS AS MUCH AS
POSSIBLE.
UNTIL SOMETHING LIKE AN
INDEPENDENT COMMISSION HAPPENS,
YOU KNOW, ITS NOT GOING TO GET
ANY BETTER.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?
WHAT WAS YOUR ADVICE TO THOSE
FOLKS?
>> I THINK WEVE GOT TO FIGHT
FOR FAIRNESS.
WE DONT NEED TO DO WHAT
REPUBLICANS DID IN 2011, AND
WHAT THEYRE GOING TO DO IN
2021.
WERE IN A FUNDAMENTALLY
DIFFERENT PLACE IN 2021 THAN WE
WERE IN 2011.
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO
CONGRESSMAN JACKSON, REPUBLICANS
DONT CONTROL THE PROCESS TO THE
EXTENT THAT THEY DID IN 2011.
THERE IS, IN FACT, A
REDISTRICTING COMMISSION IN
MICHIGAN.
THERE IS ONE IN COLORADO.
THERE ARE REFORMS IN OHIO.
THERES A LEGAL PRECEDENT IN
NORTH CAROLINA.
THERE ARE A WHOLE RANGE OF
THINGS THAT WE HAVE DONE OVER
THE COURSE OF THESE LAST FOUR
YEARS TO MAKE THE SITUATION
FUNDAMENTALLY BETTER THAN IT WAS
IN 2011.
SO WE NEED NOT REVERT TO
LOWERING OURSELVES TO DO THE
KINDS OF THINGS THAT REPUBLICANS
DO.
IF THE SYSTEM IS FAIR, IF THE
SYSTEM IS FAIR, DEMOCRATS,
PROGRESSIVES, WILL DO JUST FINE,
THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE WILL, IN
FACT, BE RESPECTED AND THAT
SHOULD BE THE GUIDE POST.
>> THE REASON THAT WERE HAVING
THIS PARTLY IS BECAUSE THE
SUPREME COURT SIGNED OFF ON
PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING AS NOT
IN VIOLATION OF A CONSTITUTIONAL
PRINCIPLE OR THE ONE PERSON, ONE
VOTE, LINE OF CASES.
RECENTLY, THAT SAME COURT, OF
COURSE, BY A 6-3 MARGIN, YOU
KNOW, BASICALLY UPHELD SOME
PROVISIONS IN ARIZONA THAT MANY
THOUGHT RAN AFOUL OF SECTION TWO
OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.
WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT
AND WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT
WHERE THINGS STAND IN THE KIND
OF BROADER SPECTRUM OF DEMOCRACY
PROTECTIONS UNDERNEATH THIS
COURT?
>> I THINK WE NEED TO BE VERY
WORRIED ABOUT THIS COURT.
THEY HAVE DEMONSTRATED AN
IDEOLOGICAL DISTASTE FOR
PROTECTING THE RIGHT TO VOTE.
WE SAW IT IN THE SHELBY COUNTY
CASE IN 2013, WE SAW IT IN A
CASE A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, THAT
ESSENTIALLY SAID THEY GUTTED THE
VOTING RIGHTS ACT IN 2013.
WERE NOW SAYING IN THE CASE
THAT JUST HELD, THEYRE ALMOST
GIVING THE LOWER COURTS A GUIDE
POST FOR WAYS IN WHICH YOU CAN
SANCTION THAT WHICH REPUBLICAN
LEGISLATORS ARE DOING.
THE OPINION BY JUSTICE ALITO IS
FRIGHTENING, NOT ONLY FOR THE
RESULTS OF THE PARTICULAR THINGS
THAT THEY UPHELD IN ARIZONA,
THOSE TWO PROVISIONS BUT THE
LANGUAGE THAT IS IN THAT
MAJORITY OPINION IS TRULY
FRIGHTENING.
AND I AM REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT
WHAT WE SEE COMING OUT OF OUR
SUPREME COURT.
ITS ONE OF THE REASONS WIHY I
THINK DEMOCRATS, PROGRESSIVES,
PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT THIS
COUNTRY HAVE TO FOCUS ON STATE
AND LOCAL ELECTIONS.
THESE LEGISLATEURES ARE THE ONES
THAT ARE PRODUCING THESE LAWS AT
THE SUPREME COURT IS UPHOLDING,
NOT ONLY WITH ELECTIONS,
REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, AND A WHOLE
RANGE OF OTHER THINGS.
WE NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON STATE
AND LOCAL ELECTIONS.
WE NEED TO BE INVOLVED IN MAKING
SURE THAT WE USE THE STATE
COURTS WHENEVER WE CAN AS
OPPOSED TO THE FEDERAL ONES.
I DONT THINK THAT, YOU KNOW,
WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTION REFORM
THAT WERE GOING TO FIND A