COLLUSION, MASSIVE OBSTRUCTION, AND THEY SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED.
WELL SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING.
>> IM REBOUNDER AND YOU ARE GLUE. REBOUNDER AND YOU ARE
GLUE.
JOINING ME NOW, TOM WINTER, MIMI
ROCHA, AND OUR PANEL, JOHN PODHORITZ, CAITLYN HUEY BURNS,
AND GABE DEBENEDETTI.
TOM, LETS START WITH YOU.
THIS IS THE THIRD SUPERSEDING
INDICTMENT ON PAUL MANAFORT. WHAT DOES ROBERT MUELLER HAVE ON
HIM NOW?
HIM NOW?
>> TODAYS CHARGES DIRECTLY REFLECT SOMETHING WE LEARNED
EARLIER THIS WEEK.
AND THAT IS AN ATTEMPT BY
MANAFORT, ACCORDING TO
PROSECUTORS, TO TAMPER WITH WITNESSES TO KIND OF GUIDE THEIR
TESTIMONY, FOR THEM TO SAY --
AND THE ROOT OF THIS GOES TO
MANAFORTS POLITICAL LOBBYING
EFFORTS HERE IN THE UNITED
STATES ON BEHALF OF THE ANA KOVIC REGIME IN UKRAINE.ANA
KOVIC REGIME IN UKRAINE. BASICALLY HE WAS TRYING TO GUIDE
THEM TO SAY, HEY, YOU DIDNT DO
ANY WORK IN THE UNITED STATES,
REMEMBER?
IT WAS ALL WORK THAT WAS DONE IN
EUROPE.
BASICALLY AN ATTEMPT BY MANAFORT
TO KIND OF GUIDE THEM. CONSTANTINE HAS BEEN REFERENCED
IN COURT DOCUMENTS ALTHOUGH NOT
SPECIFICALLY NAMED BEFORE BY
MUELLERS TEAM.
MUELLERS TEAM.
AS WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY REPORTED
HE IS SOMEBODY THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT BELIEVES HAS TIES TO
RUSSIAN MILITARY INTELLIGENCE.
HE IS MENTIONED TODAY.
HE IS ONE OF THE PERSONS THAT
WAS CHARGED ALONG WITH PAUL
MANAFORT.
MANAFORT.
ITS TWO CHARGES HAVING TO DO
WITH CONSPIRACY TO OBSTRUCT
JUSTICE AS WELL AS OBJECT
INSTRUCTING JUSTICE.
THOSE CHARGES ARE TIED TO THOSE
EFFORTS TO TRY TO TAMPER WITH
WITNESSES.
THEY SAY THE TWO OF THEM WERE
TOGETHER TO TRY TO DO THAT. THIS IS NOW THE THIRD THAT.
THIS IS NOW THE THIRD SUPERSEDING INDICTMENT IN THIS
CASE.
CASE.
MEANING THIS IS THE THIRD TIME THAT MUELLERS TEAM HAS COME IN
WITH NEW CHARGES BASED ON
EVIDENCE THEY HAVE COME UP WITH.
MANAFORTS TEAM HAS NOT YETH YET
RESPONDED TO THIS.
HE OF COURSE PLED NOT GUILTY TO
THE CHARGES IN THE PAST. HE HAS TO RESPOND BY TODAY.
A JUDGE TOLD HIM TO RESPOND
TODAY TO THESE TAMPERING
ALLEGATIONS THAT WERE RAISED
EARLIER THIS WEEK.
KATY, WE WILL WAIT TO SEE WHAT HE HAS TO SAY ABOUT THIS. WHAT
HE HAS TO SAY ABOUT THIS. >> RIGHT NOW HE IS ON BAIL UNDER
HOUSE ARREST.
HOUSE ARREST. ROBERT MUELLER IS TRYING TO GET
THE JUDGE TO REVOKE THAT BAIL.
WHEN WILL A DECISION BE MADE ON
THAT?
THAT?
>> WE EXPECT MANAFORTS TEAM TO RESPOND TO THAT, LIKE I SAID,O
RESPOND TO THAT, LIKE I SAID, TODAY, AND THEN NEXT WEEK THEY
WILL HAVE A HEARING TO TALK ALL
OF THIS OVER.
ITS UNCLEAR WITH TODAYS
SUPERSEDING INDICTMENT WHETHER
OR NOT THEY ARE GOING TO WAIT TO
HOLD A HEARING ON THAT.
SO WILL THE JUDGE AT THAT POINT
OR WILL SHE MAKE A DECISION NEXT
FRIDAY ON WHETHER TO REVOKE OR
MODIFY HIS BAIL.
ITS DIFFICULT TO SEE WHERE THEY
WOULD MODIFY HIS BAIL FURTHER AS
YOU MENTIONED HE IS ON HOME
CONFINEMENT.
CONFINEMENT.
HE HAS GPS MONITORING.
HE IS RESTRICTED RIGHT NOW IN WHAT HE CAN DO.D RIGHT NOW IN
WHAT HE CAN DO. IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THIS IS
STARTING TO LEAN TOWARDS PAUL
MANAFORT BEING HELD IN JAIL
UNTIL HIS D.C. TRIAL COMMENCES
SOMETIME THIS FALL.
>> IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, HE IS WEARING TWO MONITORINGY, HE
IS WEARING TWO MONITORING BRACELETS ON BOTH LEGS, RIGHT
TOM.
TOM.
>> I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO AT THE TIME IT DOWN TO JUST
ONE.
ONE.
BUT AT ONE POINT YOU ARE
CORRECT, HE HAD BOTH.
>> MIMI ROCHA, EXTRAPOLATE FOR YOU, THE NEW COURT FILINGS,FOR
YOU, THE NEW COURT FILINGS, WHERE DO YOU THINK THE
INVESTIGATION IS GOING?
>> I WANT TO MAKE ONE POINT THAT
TOM RAISED.
NOW THAT THESE NEW SUPERSEDING CHARGES HAVE BEEN FAILED,EDING
CHARGES HAVE BEEN FAILED, MANAFORT WILL GET ARRAIGNED AND
BROUGHT BEFORE THE COURT AND
HAVE THEM READ TO HIM OR
EXPLAINED TO HIM.
THAT COULD HAPPEN BEFORE FRIDAY.
THE HEARING THAT IS SCHEDULED
FOR FRIDAY IS ABOUT HIS BAIL.
BUT IT MAY BE THAT NOW THE
COURTS SCHEDULE SOME KIND OF
ARRAIGNMENT SOONER ON THESE
CHARGES AND THE BAIL ISSUE GETS
DEALT WITH SOONER.
WE DONT KNOW THAT.
I THINK THE FACT THAT MUELLER
HAS BROUGHT THE OBSTRUCTION
CHARGES IN THE INDICTMENT AS
OPPOSED TO JUST ALLEGING THEM IN
A LETTER AS HE HAD DONE
PREVIOUSLY NOW MAKES DETENTION
MUCH MORE LIKELY.
ITS HARD TO MANAFORTS LAWYERS
TO ARGUE, THEY HAVENT CHARGED
US, THESE ARE ALLEGATIONS.
NO, ITS BEEN CHARGED NOW.
ITS BEEN PROVEN BY PROBABLE
CAUSE.
CAUSE.
AND MUELLER BELIEVES HE COULD
CERTAINLY PROVE IT IN COURT OR
HE WOULDNT HAVE BROUGHT THE CHARGES.NT HAVE BROUGHT THE
CHARGES.
AS FOR WHERE THIS GOES, I THINK
THIS IS SIGNIFICANT FOR A COUPLE
OF REASONS BECAUSE IT SHOWS MANAFORTS REALLY DEEP TIES WITH
CONSTANTINE WHO AS EVERYONE
KNOWS BY NOW CERTAINLY HAS TIES
TO RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE.
YOU HAVE HEARD THE SAYING YOU
CANT BE A FORMER RUSSIAN
INTELLIGENCE OFFICER.
INTELLIGENCE OFFICER. ITS NOT JUST WITH RESPECT TO
THESE OBSTRUCTION CHARGES.
IT SHOWS COULD BE STAN TEENS
INVOLVEMENT GOING BACK MANY
YEARS WITH MANAFORT, AND DURING
THE TIME OF THE CAMPAIGN.
SO MANAFORT WAS INTERACTING AND
DOING THIS SCHEME, THIS LOBBYING
SCHEME, THIS ATTEMPT TO HIDE HIS
ACTIONS ON BEHALF OF THE UKRAINE
FROM THE U.S. GOVERNMENT DURING
THE TIME THAT HE WAS A CAMPAIGN
MANAGER WITH THIS FORMER RUSSIAN
INTELLIGENCE OFFICER.
INTELLIGENCE OFFICER. SO THIS PUTS MANAFORT REALLY
BOOEP DEEP IN IT.
THIS IS WHATEVER C WORD YOU WANT
TO USE, COLLUSION, CONSPIRACY,
THIS IS IT.
MANAFORT IS IN IT.
AND NOW THE REAL QUESTION IS
WHAT IS HE GOING TO DO?
IS HE GOING TO COOPERATE? IF HE DOES, WHAT WILL HE SAY
ABOUT TRUMPS KNOWLEDGE OR
INVOLVEMENT OR OTHER PEOPLE IN
THE CAMPAIGN ABOUT THESE
ACTIVITIES.
ACTIVITIES.
>> I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT
WITNESS SAMPERING SPECIFICALLY, WHAT THE NEW CHARGES ARE AROUND.
KNOWINGLY AND INTENTIONALLY
ATTEMPTED TO PERSUADE ANOTHER
ONE WITH RESPECT TO TESTIMONY IN
AN OFFICIAL PROCEEDING.
COULD YOU MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT
THE PRESIDENT HAS ATTEMPTED TO
PERSUADE WITNESSES HIMSELF?
HE HAS BEEN GOING OFFER JEFF
SESSIONS RECENTLY TWEETING ABOUT
HIM JUST THREE DAYS AGO, AND
SESSIONS IS SOMEBODY WHO HAS
BEEN INTERVIEWED BY THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL.
COUNSEL.
>> LOOK, I MEAN, THATS CERTAINLY THE -- ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT MUELLER IS LOOKING
AT.
AT.
ARE TRUMPS REPEATED SORT OF -- YOU KNOW, ATTACKS ON SESSIONS,
ON COMEY, ON -- AND THEN THE
DANGLING PARDONS TO OTHER
WITNESSES -- YOU KNOW, ARE THOSE
ATTEMPTS TO GET THEM TO EITHER,
YOU KNOW, SHUT DOWN THE
INVESTIGATION, CHANGE THEIR
TESTIMONY?
TESTIMONY?
AND YOU KNOW, I THINK TO A LAY PERSON, YOU KNOW, SORT OF IF YOU
ARE JUST LOOKING AT IT IN THE
SENSE OF, YOU KNOW, YEAH, IT
LOOKS LIKE IT, BUT IN THE SENSE
OF CAN YOU CHARGE THAT TO MEET
THE ELEMENTS OF THE CRIME, IM
NOT SURE.
NOT SURE.
AND I THINK THATS REALLY GOING
TO TAKE MUELLER PIECING TOGETHER
A LOT OF DIFFERENT ACTS. I KEEP COMING BACK TO THE TRUMP
TOWER COVER-UP, THE MEETING IN
THE TRUMP TOWER.
I THINK THATS VERY SIGNIFICANT
EVIDENCE OF INTENT TO OBSTRUCT.
I DONT THINK STANDING ALONE IT
WOULD BE ENOUGH.
BUT I THINK IT ADDS A LOT TO THE
THINGS LIKE YOU ARE TALKING
ABOUT.
ABOUT.
>> ITS BEEN A CRAZY WEEK THIS THE MUELLER PROBE, THEEK THIS
THE MUELLER PROBE, THE REVELATIONS WE HAD COMING OUT OF
IT.
IT.
IT BEGAN WITH THE LEAK OF
TRUMPS LETTER, THE LEGAL LETTER TO ROBERT MUELLERS TEAM SAYINGR
TO ROBERT MUELLERS TEAM SAYING THAT YES, HE DID DICTATE THE
LETTER ABOUT TRUMP JR.S
STATEMENT.
STATEMENT.
PAUL RYAN JOINING TREY GOUTY TO SAY NO THERE WAS NO.EY GOUTY TO
SAY NO THERE WAS NO. >>> IN THE PRESIDENTS CAMPAIGN.
GIULIANI ALLEGING THAT MANAFORT
IS TRYING -- OR THAT ROBERT
MUELLER IS TRYING TO FRAME THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT.
AND NOW MANAFORT BEING INDICTED. I ENMOO,MEAN THATS A LOT TO HAP.
I ENMOO,MEAN THATS A LOT TO HAP JUST ONE WEEK.
>> THE MANAFORT STORY IS
BIZARRE.
BIZARRE.
HERES WHY.
THERE ARE A BUNCH OF CHARGES AGAINST MANAFORT. OF CHARGES
AGAINST MANAFORT.
THE LEAST OF THEM IS THAT HE WAS
AN UNREGISTERED FOREIGN LOBBYIST, SOMETHING ON WHICH
ONLY SIX PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TRIED
IN CLOSE TO 50 YEARS.
THERES A MONEY LAUNDERING
CHARGE, WHICH IS MUCH MORE
SERIOUS THAN OTHER CHARGES.
THIS SUPERSEDING INDICTMENT
INVOLVES HIM TRYING TO WITNESS
TAMPER ON THE QUESTION OF
WHETHER HE WAS AN UNREGISTERED
FOREIGN LOBBYIST.
FOREIGN LOBBYIST. HE IS TRYING TO TELL THESE TWO
PEOPLE WHO ARE UNNAMED, SEND
THEM HINTS THAT THEY SHOULD SAY
THAT THEY DID NO WORK IN THE
UNITED STATES WHEN THEY DID.
NAST BIZARRE.
NAST BIZARRE. HE COULD ALMOST CERTAINLY GET
OUT OF BEING SENT TO JAIL FOR
BEING AN UNREGISTERED FOREIGN
LOBBYIST.
LOBBYIST.
NO ONE EVER REALLY HAS. >> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT.
>> I DONT KNOW.
I MEAN ITS STUPID.
FIRST THING IT LOOKS LIKE IS THAT ITS REALLY STUPID.KE IS
THAT ITS REALLY STUPID. THATS NOT SOMETHING THAT HE
NEEDED TO, YOU KNOW, LIKE
THREATEN HIS FREEDOM BY WITNESS
TAMPERING, WHICH EVERYBODY KNOWS
IS A REALLY SERIOUS FELONY.
>> BUT THE OBVIOUS QUESTION
THATS RAISED BY THIS THEN IS
WELL, WHAT IS HE TRYING TO COVER
UP?
UP?
IF WE ARE GOING TO TAKE IT TO
THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION ITS THAT
WHAT HE IS TRYING TO STOP THEM
FROM TALKING ABOUT, THIS FOREIGN LOBBYING ARRANGEMENT THAT HE HAD
WAS MUCH MORE SERIOUS THAN WE
KNOW ABOUT AND MUCH MORE
EXTENSIVE THAN WE KNOW ABOUT.
THAT RAISES EVEN MORE QUESTIONS
ABOUT THE BROADER SCOPE OF
MUELLERS PROBE.
MUELLERS PROBE.
AND YOU KNOW, WE LEARNED ONE
LESSON EVERY WEEK, ITS THAT THIS THING IS WIDER THAN ANY OF
US KNOW.
US KNOW. >> WE NEVER HEAR FROM ROBERT
MUELLERS TEAM.
MUELLERS TEAM.
THE ONLY TIME WE HEAR FROM THEM ARE THROUGH THE COURT FILINGS.M
ARE THROUGH THE COURT FILINGS. YOU HAVE THE PRESIDENT TRYING TO
GO OUT AND TEAR DOWN THEIR
CREDIBILITY SAYING SPYGATE, ET
CETERA, GIULIANI, WHO IS
BASICALLY ACTING AS THE
PRESIDENTS SPOKESPERSON NOW
SAYING THEY ARE TRYING TO FRAME
HIM.
HIM.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE
MESSAGES THAT THE PRESIDENT
COULD BE SENDING TO OTHERS ABOUT
PARDONS.
COULD THIS BE A MESSAGE FROM
MUELLER TO THE PRESIDENT?
DONT OBSTRUCT JUSTICE? >> THIS EVENT COMBINED TODAY
WITH EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED
THIS WEEK, ONE OF COURSE WE
DONT KNOW WHERE THE PROBE IS
GOING.
GOING.
EVERY OTHER WEEK IT SEEMS LIKE
THERE IS SOMETHING COMING DOWN
AND WE SEE THE PRESIDENT REACT
THIS REAL TIME.
THIS EVENT COMBINED WITH WHAT WE
SAW FROM TRUMPS LAWYERS AND THE CONTROVERSY OVER THE STATEMENTE
CONTROVERSY OVER THE STATEMENT THAT THE PRESIDENT MADE AT THE
TIME, THAT THE WHITE HOUSE MADE
AT THE TIME OF THE DONALD TRUMP
JR. LETTER IN TRUMP TOWER WITH
WHAT HIS LAWYERS SAID, THAT HE
ACTUALLY DID DICTATE THAT
CREATES THIS ADDITIONAL PROBLEM
FOR THE PRESIDENT INSOFAR AS HE
CONTINUES THE WEIGH IN ON THIS
HE CONTINUES PUT HIM FURTHER AND
FURTHER INTO JEOPARDY AS IT
PERTAINS TO THIS CASE.
ALL THE WHILE, WHILE THEY ARE
TRYING TO DENIGRATE THE CASE
ENTIRELY THEY ARE KIND OF
BUILDING THEMSELVES BACK INTO IT
IN LOTS OF DIFFERENT WAYS.
>> MIMI BUTTON THIS UP FOR US.
WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING OUT FOR
NEXT?
NEXT?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT ALL THESE
CRIES OF THERE WAS NO COLLUSION, THERE WAS NO -- YOU KNOW -- WEN,
THERE WAS NO -- YOU KNOW -- WE DID NOTHING WRONG WITH THE
RUSSIANS -- I THINK THIS IS --
THAT IS NOT TRUE.
THERE HAS BEEN NO FINDING THAT
THERE HASNT BEEN COLLUSION OR
CONSPIRACY.
CONSPIRACY.
IN FACT, THE MORE HINTS THAT WE
GET FROM MUELLER, AS YOU SAY, HE
SPEAKS NOT OFTEN.
BUT WHEN HE DOES, YOU KNOW, WE SEE THE RUSSIANS COORDINATINGE
SEE THE RUSSIANS COORDINATING WITH VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE
TRUMP CAMPAIGN.
TRUMP CAMPAIGN. AND THIS IS YET ANOTHER SIGN OF
THAT.
THAT.
MANAFORTS CLOSENESS WITH COLUMN KNICK AND NOT IN THEWITH COLUMN
KNICK AND NOT IN THE OBSTRUCTION, WHICH IS SERIOUS,
AND HE IS CHARGED IN THAT.
BUT CONSTANTINE SHOWS UP
THROUGHOUT THIS INDICTMENT IN
TRYING THE DEFRAUD THE U.S.