JOINING US NOW, E.J. DIONNE AT
THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION.
AND YOU’VE ACTUALLY SPOKEN TO
THE CHAIRMAN OF HOUSE AND SENATE
BUDGET COMMITTEES WITH THE FIRST
OUTLINE OF THE BILL WILL BE
WRITTEN.
WHAT ARE YOU LEARNING FROM
BERNIE SANDERS IN THE SENATE,
BUDGET COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN JOHN
YARMOUTH IN THE HOUSE WHO
APPEARED ON THE PROGRAM LAST
WEEK?
>> ONE OF THE THINGS I’M
LEARNING, ONE OF THEM SAID IN
THIS PROCESS, EVERYBODY IS JOE
MANCHIN WHICH IS TO SAY THE
MARGINS IN BOAST HOUSES ARE SO
SMALL IN THE SENATE.
IT IS 50-50 IN THE HOUSE.
THEY ONLY HAVE A COUPLE OF VOTES
TO SPARE SO EVERY MEMBER WITH A
DEMAND HAS SOME REAL POWER
BECAUSE THE VOTES WILL BE SOUGHT
AFTER.
AND WHAT THEY’RE TRYING TO DO IS
TO NEGOTIATE THIS BILL, NOT ONLY
WITH THEIR COMMITTEES, AND BY
THE WAY, ONE OF THE
ADVANTAGES DEMOCRATS HAVE IS
BOTH THE HOUSE COMMITTEE AND
SENATE BUDGET COMMITTEES HAVE
BROAD REPRESENTATION.
ALMOST EVERY WING OF THE PARTY
IS THERE.
IT’S LIKE A STRESS TEST.
IF IT GETS OUT OF THOSE
COMMITTEES, IF THEY CAN REACH AN
AGREEMENT, IT’S VERY LIKELY THE
REST OF THE SENATE DEMOCRATS CAN
REACH AN AGREEMENT.
BUT THEY’RE NOT GOING TO DO THE
TRADITIONAL THING OF THE HOUSE
PASSES ONE BILL, THE SENATE
PASSES THE OTHER, AND THEY GO TO
CONFERENCE.
WHAT THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT IS A
KIND OF PRE-CONFERENCE.
THEY’RE NEGOTIATING NOW,
EXCHANGING IDEAS NOW.
IN THE HOUSE, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE
ARE A LOT OF VULNERABLE
DEMOCRATS IN MODERATE OR SWING
DISTRICTS.
AND THEY DON’T WANT TO VOTE FOR
ONE BILL THAT THEY HAVE TO
ANSWER FOR, ONLY TO HAVE TO VOTE
FOR A SECOND BILL.
THEY’RE WILLING TO GO ALONG WITH
SOMETHING QUITE BIG.
BUT THEY WANT TO CAST ONE VOTE
FOR SOMETHING THAT WILL PASS,
NOT A VOTE FOR SOMETHING THAT IS
SYMBOLIC FOR NEGOTIATION
PURPOSES.
I LOVED YOUR INTRODUCTION,
LAWRENCE.
I THINK YOU’RE RIGHT, THIS WILL
LOOK LIKE IT’S FALLING APART A
NUMBER OF TIMES BEFORE IT COMES
TOGETHER.
BUT THE SENSE I GET FROM THE
COMMITTEE CHAIRS AND FROM OTHER
SENATORS I’VE TALKED TO AND
MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE, DEMOCRATS
KNOW IF THEY LET THIS COLLAPSE,
THE WHOLE PARTY, FROM CENTER TO
LEFT, WILL LOOK TERRIBLE.
JOE BIDEN WILL TAKE A DEFEAT,
AND NOTHING WILL BE MORE CERTAIN
TO CAUSE THEM TO LOSE BOTH
HOUSES IN 2022 THAN A
CATASTROPHE LIKE THAT.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO AVOID THAT.
>> McCONNELL DOESN’T HAVE ANY
POWER OVER THE BILL, BUT HE DOES
HAVE SOME POWER OF THE
BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT THAT THE
SENATORS WORKED ON.
IT LOOKS LIKE McCONNELL ONLY HAS
TO PULL AWAY TWO OR THREE
REPUBLICANS AND THAT THING
COLLAPSES IN THE SENATE.
BUT LET’S CONCENTRATE ON THE
DEMOCRATS ONLY BILL, WHICH IN
MANY WAYS IS MORE COMPLEX.
WHAT DOES JOE MANCHIN SAY THAT
BERNIE SANDERS CANNOT LIVE WITH,
AND WHAT DOES BERNIE SANDERS SAY
THAT JOE MANCHIN CANNOT LIVE
WITH?
AND I’M NOT HEARING THAT RIGHT
NOW, A RED LINE BEING DRAWN BY
EITHER SANDERS OR MANCHIN IN A
WAY THAT PREVENTS THE TWO OF
THEM FROM COMING TO AN
AGREEMENT.
AND TO ME, THEY REPRESENT BOTH
ENDS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN
THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.
IF THEY CAN GET TOGETHER ON
SOMETHING, THAT IS GOING TO BE
THE BILL.
>> I THINK THAT’S RIGHT.
I THINK THAT ONE OF THE ISSUES
WILL SIMPLY BE THE SIZE OF IT.
THE NUMBER MANCHIN HAS THROWN
OUT IS $2 TRILLION.
THE NUMBER THAT BERNIE HAS
THROWN OUT IS $5 TO $6 TRILLION.
I HAVE A SUSPICION THAT BOTH OF
THEM ARE AT A NEGOTIATING
POSITION.
FUNNILY ENOUGH, PRESIDENT BIDEN,
WHO SEEMS TO HAVE A KNACK FOR
FINDING THE CENTER OF THE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY, PROPOSED
SOMETHING AROUND $4.5 TRILLION.
THERE WILL BE ARGUMENTS ABOUT
THE NUMBER, ABOUT THE SIZE OF
THE INCREASE IN THE CORPORATE
TAX.
BUT THEY’RE NOT ARGUING ABOUT
WHETHER TO RAISE IT.
MANCHIN --
>> I THINK WE HAVE A --
>> -- AND ON -- I’M SORRY?
>> GO AHEAD, E.J.
>> I’M SORRY.
THEY’RE IN THE SAME BALLPARK
THERE.
AND ON A LOT OF THE SUBSTANCE,
MOST DEMOCRATS ARE FOR ALL THESE
THINGS, THEY WACHBTNT TO EXPAND
HEALTH CARE AND CHILD CARE, THEY
WANT PEOPLE TO GO TO COLLEGE.
SO HOW MUCH CAN YOU FIT INTO THE
BILL?
ON THE FILIBUSTER, I HEARD ABOUT
THE POSSIBILITY THAT SEVERAL
REPUBLICANS WHO WOULDN’T VOTE
FOR IT, WOULD AGREE TO SUPPORT
CLOTURE.
YOU WOULD SEPARATE THE TWO, YOU