"MORNING JOE." >>> WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TO
SIGNIFICANTLY RAMP UP NOT ONLY
THE NUMBER OF TESTS, BUT THE
CAPACITY TO ACTUALLY PERFORM
THEM.
THEM. I AM NOT OVERLY CONFIDENT RIGHT
NOW AT ALL THAT WE HAVE WHAT IT
TAKES TO DO THAT.
WE ARE GETTING BETTER AND BETTER
AT IT AS THE WEEKS GO BY, BUT WE
ARE NOT IN A SITUATION WHERE WE
SAY WE’RE EXACTLY WHERE WE WANT
TO BE WITH REGARD TO TESTING.
>> AS YOU KNOW, AND AS I HAVE
SAID MANY TIMES, WE ARE VERY
ADVANCED IN TESTING.
OTHER COUNTRIES ARE CALLING US
TO FIND OUT WHAT ARE WE DOING.
WE HAVE DONE MORE TESTING THAN
EVERY OTHER NATION COMBINED, AND
THAT’S A BIG STATEMENT.
>> DR. FAUCI SAID WE ARE JUST
NOT THERE YET?
>> I DON’T AGREE.
WE ARE DOING A GREAT JOB ON
TESTING.
TESTING. IF HE SAID THAT, I DON’T AGREE
WITH IT.
WITH IT. >> JOINING US NOW PRESIDENT AND
CEO OF THE ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON
FOUNDATION, DR. RICHARD BESSER,
FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE
CDC AND WAS APPOINTED BY NEW
JERSEY GOVERNOR PHIL MURPHY TO A
MULTI-STATE BOARD THAT’S
COORDINATING THE REGION’S
REOPENING.
REOPENING. I WILL ASK YOU THE SAME QUESTION
THAT WAS ASKED OF FAUCI.
ARE WE WHERE WE NEED TO BE WITH
TESTING AND HOW LONG IS IT GOING
TO TAKE TO GET THERE?
>> YEAH, I MEAN, THAT’S THE
CRITICAL QUESTION.
CRITICAL QUESTION. IF WE SWITCH FROM AN APPROACH
WHERE EVERYONE IS ON LOCKDOWN IN
THEIR HOMES TO ONE WHERE WE’RE
TRYING TO IDENTIFY PEOPLE WHO
ARE SICK QUICKLY, GETTING THEM
INTO ISOLATION, FIGURING OUT WHO
THEY HAVE HAD CONTACT WITH AND
GETTING THOSE PEOPLE INTO
ISOLATION, WE ARE NOWHERE NEAR
READY TO DO THAT.
MOST STATES ARE ONLY TESTING
PEOPLE WHO ARE SEVERELY ILL TO
FIGURE OUT DO THEY NEED TO BE
HOSPITALIZED AND DO THEY HAVE
COVID.
COVID. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO DO THIS
RIGHT, YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO
TEST PEOPLE WITH EVEN THE
MILDEST SYMPTOMS BECAUSE MOST
PEOPLE WHO GET THIS INFECTION
WILL DO WELL, BUT EVEN THOSE
PEOPLE WHO DO WELL HAVE THE
POSSIBILITY OF SPREADING THIS TO
OTHERS.
OTHERS. AND WE ARE NOT READY TO IDENTIFY
AND CONTINUE WITH THAT STRATEGY.
WE ALSO, YOU KNOW, THERE IS ALSO
CHALLENGES IN TERMS OF WHO IS
GETTING TESTED.
GETTING TESTED. THIS IS COMMUNITIES OF COLORS,
BLACK AMERICANS AND LATINOS IN A
MAJOR WAY.
MAJOR WAY. WE DON’T HAVE ANY IDEA OF THE
TESTING RATES IN THESE
COMMUNITIES.
COMMUNITIES. >> DR. BESSER, WILLIE GEIST.
YOU WERE THE ACTING CDC DIRECTOR
2009 DURING THE OUTBREAK OF
SWINE FLU.
SWINE FLU. YOU HAD THESE BRIEFINGS EVERY
DAY.
DAY. WHAT LESSONS DID YOU LEARN
DURING THAT SWINE FLU OUTBREAK
THAT YOU BELIEVE COULD BE
APPLIED TODAY PERHAPS TO THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THEY COULD
LEARN FROM WHAT YOU ALL WENT
THROUGH THEN?
THROUGH THEN? >> YEAH, WILLIE, THAT’S A
TERRIFIC QUESTION.
TERRIFIC QUESTION. I THINK ONE OF THE CRITICAL
SUCCESS FACTORS BACK THEN WAS
TRUST.
TRUST. AND THE WAY WE ENGENDERED TRUST
WAS HAVING A DAILY BRIEFING FROM
THE TOP PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS
IN THE COUNTRY.
WHAT ALLOWED US TO DO WAS TALK
ABOUT WHAT WE WERE LEARNING, WHY
WE WERE CHANGING GUIDANCE WHEN
WE WERE CHANGING GUIDANCE.
IT’S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.
IN A PANDEMIC, IN A NEW EMERGING
INFECTION, WHAT YOU DON’T KNOW
GREATLY OUT WEIGHS WHEN YOU DO
KNOW.
KNOW. AS YOU LEARN AND CHANGE YOUR
GUIDANCE, IF YOU ARE NOT HAVING
THAT DIRECT LINE OF SIGHT TO THE
SCIENCE, PEOPLE WILL WONDER,
WHAT’S GOING ON HERE?
WHO IS IN CHARGE?
WHY ARE YOU WAFFLING AND
FLIPPING?
FLIPPING? THE CDC AND STATE AND LOCAL
PUBLIC HEALTH ARE LEARNING A
TON, BUT WE ARE NOT HEARING FROM
THEM EVERY DAY.
WE ARE HEARING FROM POLITICAL
LEADERS, AND THAT IS A REAL
PROBLEM.
PROBLEM. >> DR. BESSER, I’M JUST CURIOUS
WHAT YOU THOUGHT OF THE
PRESIDENT’S SORT OF TALKING
ABOUT THIS LIGHT AND
DISINFECTANT BEING SHOT INTO THE
BODY, AND THEN HIS TOP
SCIENTISTS HAVING TO SORT OF
DEAL WITH THAT.
ARE YOU AT ALL CONCERNED THAT
THE FRAMEWORK AT THE TOP IN THE
WHITE HOUSE IS NOT BEST SET UP
TO WIN AGAINST THIS VIRUS WITH A
PRESIDENT WHO COMES UP WITH
IDEAS LIKE THAT?
AND WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THAT
IDEA?
IDEA? >> YOU KNOW, MIKA, I THINK IT’S
EXTREMELY DANGEROUS WHEN
HYPOTHESES, WHEN IDEAS, WHEN
THINGS THAT YOU MAY WANT SOMEONE
TO CONSIDER ARE PUT FORWARD IN
THAT FASHION.
THAT FASHION. THERE IS SO MUCH MISINFORMATION
OUT THERE ON THE INTERNET.
YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
ANYTHING THAT’S RAISED AT A
NATIONAL LEVEL HAS BEEN VETTED,
HAS BEEN TESTED, AND YOU KNOW
THAT IT’S SOMETHING YOU WANT
PEOPLE TO DO.
I WORRY WHEN I SEE HEADLINES
THAT SAY THE PRESIDENT SUGGESTS
USING DISINFECTANT BECAUSE SOME
PEOPLE WILL READ THAT AND SAY,
OH, IF IT’S BEING SUGGESTED,
MAYBE I’LL TRY IT.
THE HEADLINES SHOULD ALL BE THAT
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT USE
DISINFECTANT.
DISINFECTANT. IF PEOPLE DO THAT, LIVES WILL BE
LOST.
LOST. SCIENTIFIC IDEAS NEED TO COME
FORWARD FROM SCIENTISTS, AND
THEN HAVE POLITICAL LEADERS,
WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING TO MAKE A
POLICY DECISION, SAY WE’RE DOING
THIS BECAUSE HERE IS WHAT OUR
TOP SCIENTISTS HAVE SAID.
>> MIKE BARNICLE?
>> DOCTOR, ONE OF THE THINGS THE
VIRUS HAS DONE IS BREED FEAR AND
ANXIETY AMONG CERTAIN ELEMENTS
OF THE POPULATION IN THIS
COUNTRY AND OTHER COUNTRIES
AROUND THE WORLD.
YOU ARE TRAINED AS A
PEDIATRICIAN.
PEDIATRICIAN. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO PREGNANT
WOMEN RIGHT NOW?
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO PARENT OF
YOUNGSTERS, INFANTS 3 TO 5 YEARS
OF AGE, PEOPLE 7, 8, 9, 10 YEARS
OF AGE, AND THEIR EXPOSURE TO
THE VIRUS?
THE VIRUS? WHAT DO YOU SAY?
>> IT’S NATURAL THAT PEOPLE ARE
WORRIED, THAT THEY ARE
CONCERNED.
CONCERNED. WHEN YOU CAN GIVE PEOPLE THINGS
TO DO TO REDUCE THEIR RISK, THAT
HELPS.
HELPS. WHEN IT COMES TO TALKING TO
CHILDREN, IT DEPENDS VERY MUCH
ON THE AGE OF THE CHILD.
SO VERY YOUNG CHILDREN YOU WANT
TO SHIELD THEM AS MUCH AS
POSSIBLE FROM NEWS.
AS CHILDREN GET OLDER, THEY ARE
AS PARENTS, AS CAREGIVERS, YOU
WANT TO REASSURE THEM THAT YOU
ARE TAKING CARE OF THEM AND
LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR HEALTH.
PRE-TEEN AND TEEN CHILDREN, GIVE
THEM THINGS TO DO, WAYS TO
ENGAGE, THINGS THEY MAYABLE ABLE
TO DO EVEN REMOTELY IN THEIR
COMMUNITIES SO THEIR SENSE OF
CONTROL AND ACTION, THAT CAN BE
VERY HELPFUL.
VERY HELPFUL. THIS IS GOING TO PAY A BIG TOLL
ON CHILDREN’S EDUCATION, ON
THEIR LEARNING, ON THEIR
DEVELOPMENT, AND WE NEED TO STAY
FOCUSED ON DOING THOSE THINGS
THAT CAN HELP TO REDUCE THE
IMPACT AT THAT LEVEL.
>> BUT IS IT FACTUAL TO CLAIM,
AS SOME HAVE CLAIMED, THAT
CHILDREN ARE UNLIKELY TO CATCH
THE VIRUS?
THE VIRUS? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A
LOT THAT WE NEED TO LEARN ABOUT
CHILDREN.
CHILDREN. ONE OF THE KEY QUESTIONS IS HOW
IMPORTANT ARE CHILDREN IN TERMS
OF TRANSMISSION.
OF TRANSMISSION. FOR FLU WE KNOW THAT CHILDREN
ARE A CRITICALLY IMPORTANT WAY
THAT VIRUS SPREADS THROUGH
COMMUNITIES, IT SPREADS TO
ELDERLY PEOPLE.
ELDERLY PEOPLE. WE DON’T HAVE THE SAME
INFORMATION AROUND CHILDREN IN
THIS OUTBREAK, AND THAT WILL BE
VERY RELEVANT WHEN YOU THINK
ABOUT OPENING SCHOOLS AND HOW
BIG A RISK FACTOR THAT IS.
IN TERMS OF CHILDREN NOT GETTING
INFECTED, NO, YOU KNOW, WHAT IT
IS KNOWN IS THAT CHILDREN ARE AT
MUCH LOWER RISK OF HAVING SEVERE
DISEASE AND FATAL DISEASE.
IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT SOME
CHILDREN WON’T HAVE SEVERE
DISEASE, UNFORTUNATELY, OR DIE,
BUT THE RISK OF THAT HAPPENING
IS MUCH, MUCH LOWER.
THIS IDEA OF RISK IS ONE THAT’S
REALLY CHALLENGING TO CONVEY
BECAUSE IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT
IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT
WE’RE DOING ALL OF THESE
ACTIVITIES BECAUSE OF THE GREAT
RISK TO THE ELDERLY AND THOSE
WITH CERTAIN UNDERLYING
CONDITIONS.
CONDITIONS. AND IF WE ALL TAKE ACTION,
THAT’S WHAT WE CAN DO.
WE CAN REDUCE THE RISK TO THOSE
WHO ARE REALLY IN TROUBLE WITH
THIS.
THIS. >> DR. BESSER, AS WE TALK ABOUT
THE COMMUNITIES WHO ARE
VULNERABLE, SENIOR CITIZENS,
PEOPLE WITH UNDERLYING
CONDITIONS OFTEN LEFT OUT OF THE
CONVERSATION ARE PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITY.
DISABILITY. I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN THINKING
AND WRITE BEING THAT RECENTLY,
THAT THERE ARE MASSIVE
POPULATIONS OF PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITIES WHO ARE VULNERABLE
RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT NOW. OORPS WE HAD A NEARLY
$500 BILLION BILL PASS THROUGH
CONGRESS TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM
IN FRONT OF US.
WHAT CAN YOU SAY ABOUT HOW
PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES IN THIS
COUNTRY ARE HAVING THEIR NEEDS
ADDRESSED EITHER THROUGH
GOVERNMENT OR THROUGH PRIVATE
GROUPS?
GROUPS? >> WELL, I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT
THE LEGISLATION THAT HAS BEEN
PASSED, YOU WOULD HAVE TO
CONCLUDE THAT AS A SOCIETY WE
DON’T PUT THE SAME VALUE ON
PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.
60 MILLION PEOPLE IN THIS
COUNTRY WITH DISABILITIES.
MORE THAN THAT.
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE
UNMET NEEDS, FAMILY AND MEDICAL
LEAVE.
LEAVE. A LOT OF HOME HEALTH WORKERS WHO
CARE FOR PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITIES ARE NOT IN THE WORK
FORCE NOW, YET FAMILY AND
MEDICAL LEAVE POLICIES DON’T
ALLOW PEOPLE TO STAY HOME AND
HELP CARE FOR PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITIES.
DISABILITIES. THAT’S SOMETHING THAT HAS TO
CHANGE.
CHANGE. PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES NEED TO
BE ABLE TO HAVE LONG, LONG
STOCKPILES OF MEDICATIONS AND
MEDICAL EQUIPMENT, YET WHILE
MEDICARE IS ALLOWING 90-DAY
PRESCRIPTIONS, HASN’TTHAT HASN’T
EXPANDED TO MEDICAID AND CHIP
AND THE OTHER PROGRAMS.
THOSE ARE CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
DECISION-MAKING THAT HEALTH CARE
SYSTEMS ARE MAKING AS THEY ARE
PLANNING OF HOW TO RATION SCARCE
RESOURCES, PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITIES, THEIR LIVES ARE
NOT VALUED IN THE SAME WAY, AND
THAT’S JUST WRONG.
WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT.
WE NEED TO LOOK AT THESE BILLS
AND MAKE SURE THAT THE NEEDS OF
PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES ARE
BEING MET, THAT INFORMATION IS
BEING CONVEYED TO PEOPLE IN WAYS
THAT EVERYBODY CAN GET THAT
INFORMATION AND PROTECT THEIR
LIVES.
LIVES. >> DR. RICHARD BESSER, THANK YOU