Learn more at Retire Your Risk dot org.
>>> TODAY WE HAVE COME TO THE
CONCLUSION OF A CONFIRMATION
PROCESS THAT HAS BECOME SO
DYSFUNCTIONAL IT LOOKS MORE LIKE
A CARICATURE OF A GUTTER LEVEL
POLITICAL CAMPAIGN.
POLITICAL CAMPAIGN. >> JOINING US NOW, SOMEBODY WHO
KNOWS A LOT ABOUT THE HISTORY OF
GUTTER LEVEL POLITICAL
CAMPAIGNS, JOHN MEACHAM,
POLITICAL HISTORIAN.
POLITICAL HISTORIAN. DID WE MAKE HISTORY IN THE
ANIMOSITY, NOT JUST PARTISAN
DIVIDES, BUT GENDER DIVIDES IN
THIS COUNTRY OVER THE NOMINATION
FIGHT OF JUDGE BRETT KAVANAUGH?
>> I THINK WE REACHED HISTORIC
LEVELS OF EXACERBATION OF THOSE
LEVELS ABSOLUTELY.
LEVELS ABSOLUTELY. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I FIND SO
INTERESTING ABOUT SENATOR
COLLINS’ SPEECH IS SHE WAS
VOTING TO CONFIRM A VISION OF
BRETT KAVANAUGH THAT HAD FAR
MORE INSPECT COMMON WITH SUSAN
COLLINS THAN IT DOES WITH JUDGE
KAVANAUGH.
KAVANAUGH. IF YOU TAKE THE FIRST PART OF
HER SPEECH, SHE WAS CASTING HIM
AS A CENTRIST, NOT AS A
CONSERVATIVE, WHICH FLIES IN THE
FACE OF THE POLITICAL CALCULUS
AT THE MOMENT.
IF HE WAS SUCH A CENTRIST, WHY
IS THE RIGHT SO DETERMINED TO
HAVE THIS PARTICULAR MAN ON THE
COURT.
COURT. AND SO THE REAL BRETT KAVANAUGH,
ONE OF THE QUESTIONS GOING
FORWARD, BECAUSE MAKE NO
MISTAKE, 40 YEARS OF AMERICAN
JURISPRUDENCE JUST GOT A SHAPE
TODAY, 40 YEARS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT’S GOING
TO BE FASCINATING IS, IS BRETT
KAVANAUGH THE KAVANAUGH WHO
SHOWED UP -- IS JUSTICE
KAVANAUGH GOING TO BE THE ONE
THAT SHOWED UP AND MADE THAT
PARTISAN SPEECH LAST WEEK OR THE
KAVANAUGH THAT COLLINS THINKS
SHE’S VOTING FOR.
A LOT HANGS IN THE BALANCE OF
THAT QUESTION.
THAT QUESTION. >> YOU STUDIED AMERICAN
PRESIDENTS SINCE THE FIRST
AMERICAN PRESIDENT.
AMERICAN PRESIDENT. WHAT DO YOU THINK?
DO YOU THINK A MAN SHOWS HIS
FULL STRIPES UNDER THE
CIRCUMSTANCES BRETT KAVANAUGH
FOUND HIMSELF IN LAST THURSDAY,
OR DO YOU THINK THE POLITICAL
LIFE WE WITNESSED BEFORE LAST
THURSDAY IS THE TRUE MAN?
>> I THINK HE’S CLOSER TO WHERE
HE WAS LAST WEEK THAN THE ONE
COLLINS WANTED HIM TO BE,
UNQUESTIONABLY.
UNQUESTIONABLY. IF YOU LOOK AT THE WORLD OUT OF
WHICH HE CAME, A WORLD FAMILIAR
TO YOU, IT’S THE CONSERVATIVE
LEGAL WORLD OF WASHINGTON.
IT’S THE FEDERALIST SOCIETY.
IT’S ORIGINAL INTENT.
IT’S A VERY BUTTONED DOWN BUT
SOMEWHAT RADICAL ACTUALLY LEGAL
MOVEMENT THAT IN ITS WAY IS AS
RADICAL AS THE LIVING
CONSTITUTION OF THE LEFT,
BECAUSE IF YOU -- IF YOU PUT
YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION OF
ORIGINAL INTENT AS THE CENTRAL
JUDICIAL CRITERIA, IT IS STILL
YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THAT
ORIGINAL INTENT.
ORIGINAL INTENT. AND SO I THINK THAT WE’RE GOING
TO HAVE -- WE’VE HAD THIS
STRUGGLE NOW FOR 30 YEARS OR
MORE.
MORE. THE OTHER THING THAT’S IMPORTANT
TO UNDERSTAND HISTORICALLY, AND
I THINK TO UNDERSTAND THE
PASSIONS AROUND THIS, IS
REPUBLICANS FAR MORE OFTEN THAN
DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN DISAPPOINTED
IN THE PEOPLE WHO THEIR
PRESIDENTS PUT ON THE COURT.
THIS BEGINS IN 1953 WITH DWIGHT
EISENHOWER WHO ALSO PUT BRENNAN
ON THE COURT.
RICHARD NIXON WHO HAD FOUR
APPOINTMENTS AND EXCEPT FOR
JUSTICE REHNQUIST THEY TURNED
OUT TO BE FAR MORE CENTRIST THAN
THE RIGHT HOPED FOR.
GEORGE H.W. BUSH AND DAVID
SOUTER.
SOUTER. THE INSISTENCE OF THE
CONSERVATIVES SINCE 1990 HAS
BEEN THAT WE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO
KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE’RE GETTING.
AND THAT’S -- THAT’S AT THE CORE
OF THIS, I THINK.
AND THAT’S WHO JUDGE KAVANAUGH
IS, AND HE SHOULDN’T BE
APOLOGETIC ABOUT IT.
THAT’S WHO HE IS AND THAT’S WHO
THE PRESIDENT APPOINTED AND WHO
51 SENATORS ARE CONFIRMING.
BUT I WOULDN’T BE DISTRACTED BY
SENATOR COLLINS’ ATTEMPT TO TURN
HIM INTO SOME CREATURE OUT OF
THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION.
>> MY LAST QUESTION IS PERSONAL
FOR YOU.
FOR YOU. I MEAN WE DON’T TALK ENOUGH
ABOUT THE HUMAN BEINGS, AND I
THINK I WAS STRUCK LAST THURSDAY
BY THE LINE FROM DONALD TRUMP’S
INAUGURATION SPEECH ABOUT HUMAN
CARNAGE WHEN I WATCHED PROFESSOR
FORD, WHOSE LIFE HAS BEEN
DESTROYED SINCE THIS INCIDENT,
OBVIOUSLY, WHO OVERCAME THAT
TRAUMA AND TESTIFIED BEFORE THE
COUNTRY AND THE WORLD, AND JUDGE
KAVANAUGH’S LIFE WILL NEVER BE
WHAT IT WAS BEFORE.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS MOMENT
IN JUST HUMAN CARNAGE AND HUMAN
CALAMITY?
CALAMITY? I’VE HAD A WINDOW THAT I WOULD
TRADE WITH ANYONE ON EARTH INTO
WHAT THIS HAS DONE TO THE
KAVANAUGHS AND THEIR CIRCLE OF
FRIENDS AND THEIR PEOPLE WHO
SUPPORT AND LOVE HIM AND I’VE
HAD A WINDOW INTO WHAT THIS HAS
DONE TO WOMENS WHO ARE SEXUAL
ASSAULT VICTIMS THEMSELVES AND
EVERYONE IS GUTTED.
>> IT’S BRUTAL.
YOU’RE EXACTLY RIGHT, ONE OF THE
THINGS WE HAVE TO REMEMBER IN
ALL THESE MOMENTS IS THAT THESE
AREN’T CARICATURES, THESE AREN’T
CARDBOARD PEOPLE, THEY ARE FLESH
AND BLOOD HUMAN BEINGS.
MOST OF THE TIME THEY’RE TRYING
TO DO THE BEST THEY CAN THROUGH
WHAT PHRASE I LOVE, GEORGE
ELLIOTT, THE VICTORIAN NOVELIST,
TALKED ABOUT TRYING TO DO THE
BEST YOU COULD THROUGH DIMMED
LIGHTS AND TANGLED CIRCUMSTANCE
WHICH I THOUGHT WAS THE PERFECT
WAY OF EXPLAINING LIFE ITSELF
BUT CERTAINLY LIFE IN THE ARENA.
UNQUESTIONABLY THERE ARE DAMAGED
PEOPLE HERE.
PEOPLE HERE. AND THE PROCESS IS BRUTAL.
I THINK THAT’S ONE OF THE
LEGACIES OF THIS.
I DO THINK IT’S GOING TO BE
HARDER TO GET PEOPLE TO RAISE
THEIR HAND AND GO INTO THE
ARENA, AND I THINK THAT’S A
TRAGEDY.
TRAGEDY. UNQUESTIONABLY, THOUGH, I THINK
ULTIMATELY CHARACTER IS DESTINY.
AND AGAIN, GOING FORWARD WHAT
AFFECTS ALL OF US IS WILL
JUSTICE KAVANAUGH BE ABLE TO PUT
THIS BEHIND HIM IN A WAY THAT