EXAMPLE -- THEY'VE ALSO SEEN BIG
TEACHER PROTESTS IN RECENT
WEEKS.
>>> AND NOW THIS, PERHAPS
EVIDENCE OF THE GREAT TAX EXODUS
THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.
THE CENSUS DEPARTMENT SAYS MORE
THAN 1,000 NEW YORKERS MOVED TO
COLUMBUS, OHIO, IN THE LAST
THREE YEARS.
THAT SEEMS A LITTLE OBSCURE,
DOESN'T IT?
NEW YORK TO COLUMBUS, 1,000 IN
THREE YEAR ARES.
THE NUMBER, APPARENTLY, IS
GROWING.
PEOPLE SAY THE CITY'S LOW
HOUSING COSTS, STRONG JOB
MARKET, LIVELY NEIGHBORHOODS AND
THE BANKING INDUSTRY -- WHICH IS
BIG IN COLUMBUS -- THAT'S ALL
ATTRACTING NEW YORKERS WHO ARE
ALSO PROBABLY GETTING AWAY FROM
TAXATION.
>>> SPEAKING OF THE TAX EXODUS,
NEW JERSEY IS ANOTHER OF THOSE
HIGH-TAX BLUE STATES, AND
GOVERNOR MURPHY, HE WANTS EVEN
HIGHER TAXES IN THE GARDEN
STATE.
JOINING US NOW IS NEW JERSEY
SENATE PRESIDENT STEVEN SWEENEY.
STEVEN, IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME.
WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME, STUART.
STUART: I JUST READ THIS ON NEW
JERSEYNJ.COM.
IT SAYS THAT YOU OPPOSE THE
HIGHER TAXES THAT GOVERNOR
MURPHY IS PROPOSING, AND NJ.COM
SAYS THAT MURPHY'S ALLIES ARE
PREPARING TO ATTACK YOU.
THEY'RE GOING AFTER YOU BECAUSE
YOU OPPOSE HIS TAX INCREASES.
YOU'RE SMILING.
WHY?
>> WELL, IT'S, IT'S SO SILLY,
STUART.
WE DISAGREE.
AND WE DISAGREE BECAUSE WE'RE
CONCERNED ABOUT THE FLIGHT OF
PEOPLE LEAVING THE STATE OF NEW
JERSEY.
AND, YOU KNOW, AND I KEEP
TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING,
AND MAYBE THE ADMINISTRATION,
MAYBE THE GOVERNOR SHOULD WANT
TO UNDERSTAND WHY THAT WE ARE
RESISTANT AND WHY OUR CONCERNS
ARE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, RAISING
TAXES RIGHT NOW IN A HIGH-TAX
STATE WHERE THE PEOPLE THAT CAN
LEAVE WILL LEAVE, YOU KNOW?
SO, FOR ME, WHEN I HEARD ABOUT
THAT, THAT THEY ACTUALLY PUT A
SUPERPAC TOGETHER TO GO AFTER
PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF THAT ARE
RELUCTANT TO RAISE TAXES, WHY
DON'T WE START LOOKING AT HOW WE
FIX THE GOVERNMENT ITSELF FIRST,
YOU KNOW?
YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS HERE ALL
THE TIME, STUART, IS PEOPLE LOOK
TO FIND REVENUE TO FUND
PROGRAMS.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EXPANDING
PROGRAMS WHEN WE CAN'T ALREADY
PAY PERCENT PROGRAMS THAT WE
HAVE NOW.
PAY FOR THE PROGRAMS THAT WE
HAVE NOW.
SO PUTTING MORE PROGRAMS ON TOP
OF OTHER PROGRAMS THAT YOU CAN'T
FUND DOESN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE.
AND MY BIGGEST POINT WITH THIS
ADMINISTRATION IS IF WE GAVE
THEM ALL THE TAXES THAT HE
WANTED THIS YEAR, HOW AM I GOING
TO PAY FOR THESE INSTALLMENTS
NEXT YEAR, THE FOLLOWING YEAR
AND THE FOLLOWING YEAR?
YOU KNOW, STUART, YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT A COUPLE BILLION DOLLARS
MORE IN TAXES TO PAY FOR
EVERYTHING ON TOP OF THIS
ALREADY.
IT'S TIME TO FIX NEW JERSEY, NOT
TAX IT.
STUART: WOULD YOU CONSIDER
LOWERING TAXES?
I MEAN, IF YOU HAD THE POWER,
WOULD YOU LOWER TAXES IN NEW
JERSEY?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, STUART, WE
HAVE DONE SOME OF THAT.
YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE ESTATE
TAX -- WE ELIMINATED THE ESTATE
TAX, WE RAISED THE THRESHOLD ON
RETIREMENT INCOME WHERE WE TAX
RETIREES.
WE'VE DONE SOME OF THAT.
YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE NICE TO BE
IN A POSITION WHERE WE CAN MAKE
OURSELVES MORE ATTRACTIVE TAX
WISE.
BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS WHAT WE
CAN DO IS STOP THE INCREASE IN
TAXES AND FIGURE A WAY TO START
CUTTING THE COSTS SO THAT WE
DON'T HAVE TO KEEP GOING BACK TO
THE PEOPLE OF NEW JERSEY EVERY
TIME.
STUART: I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND
WHY A MAN WHO USED TO BE BIG AT
GOLDMAN SACHS AND IS NOW THE NEW
JERSEY GOVERNOR, MR. MURPHY, WHY
ON EVERETT WOULD HE THINK LIKE
THAT -- WHY ON EARTH WOULD HE
THINK LIKE THAT?
WHY WOULD HE WANT TO RAISE A
MILLIONAIRES' TAX, RAISE THE
SALES TAX?
YOU'VE GOT A BACKGROUND OF
CAPITALISM, GOLDMAN SACHS.
YOU KNOW HOW MARKETS WORK.
YOU KNOW HOW REVENUE WORKS.
WHY IS HE DOING THIS?
>> I THINK HE BELIEVES IT,
STUART, TO -- I TELL PEOPLE THIS
ALL THE TIME, I GIVE HIM CREDIT,
THIS IS WHAT HE BELIEVES IN,
THIS IS WHAT HE'S DOING.
BUT HE HAS TO UNDERSTAND THAT AS
DEMOCRATS IN THE LEGISLATURE, WE
ARE THE SAME PARTY OF HIM, WE
DON'T AGREE.
WE HAVE CONCERNS, AND WE WANT TO
HAVE A CONVERSATION ON FIXING
NEW JERSEY FIRST.
YOU KNOW, AGAIN, STUART, THIS
IS -- WHEN THE GOVERNOR TALKS
ABOUT THESE, THIS IS THE FIRST
INSTALLMENT OF FOUR
INSTALLMENTS.
THIS ONE COSTS $1.7 BILLION.
WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM
NEXT YEAR TO MAKE THE NEXT
INSTALLMENT?
IT'S TIME TO STOP TALKING TAXES,
AND IT'S NOW TIME TO TALK ABOUT
FIXING NEW JERSEY.
STUART: SIR, THAT IS A SOUND
BITE THAT WILL LIVE WITH US FOR
A LONG, LONG TIME, AND WE'RE
GOING TO USE IT.