>>> A WHOPPING $75 MILLION.
HOW MUCH FORMER PRESIDENT
TRUMPS POLITICAL ACTION
COMMITTEE RAISED IN THE FIRST
HALF OF THE YEAR.
PARTLY THROUGH FUND-RAISING
PITCHES LIKE THIS ONE.
FACEBOOK ADS THAT READ, WE NEED
YOU TO JOIN THE FIGHT TO SECURE
OUR ELECTIONS.
HOW MUCH OF THAT $75 MILLION
WENT TO ANY OF THE BALLOT
REVIEWS AND SO-CALLED AUDITS?
ZERO.
REPORTING INSTEAD THE SAVE
AMERICA LEADERSHIP PAC WHICH HAS
FEW LIMITS ON HOW IT CAN SPEND
ITS MONEY HAS PAID FOR SOME OF
THE FORMER PRESIDENTS TRAVEL,
LEGAL STAFF.
TRUMP CONTINUES TO STOKE THE BIG
LIE SO PROFITABLE FOR HIM AND
HIS PAC WITH A SPEECH TOMORROW
IN ARIZONA, HOME TO THE AUDIT SO
CENTRAL TO KEEPING BASELESS
ELECTION FRAUD CONSPIRACIES
ALIVE.
THE EVENT IS BILLED AS A, QUOTE,
RALLY TO PROTECT OUR ELECTIONS.
JOINING OUR CONVERSATION
JONATHAN LEMIRE, WHITE HOUSE
REPORTER AND AN MSNBC POLITICAL
ANALYST, EUGENE ROBINSON IS BACK
WITH US.
EUGENE, I JUST WANT TO YOU REACT
TO "THE WASHINGTON POST" REPORT.
$75 MILLION.
THATS AN INCREDIBLE SUM OF
MONEY MUCH LESS AN INCREDIBLE
SUM TO RAISE OFF A LIE.
IT FEELS LIKE THE PRESIDENCY MAY
BE OVER BUT THE GRIFT GOES ON.
>> WELL, IM NOT HEARING SHOCK
IN YOUR VOICE.
IM NOT SEEING IT ON YOUR FACE
OR ON JOHNS FACE.
THE GRIFT GOES ON.
I WAS SURPRISED THAT DONALD
TRUMP RAISED ALL THAT MONEY AND
IS USING IT HIMSELF, IS USING
ITSELFISHLY.
THE MOST WEVE EVER SEEN IN OUR
LIFE.
YOU MIGHT FEEL SORRY FOR THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE GIVING ALL THIS
MONEY THINKING THAT IT IS GOING
TO FIGHT THIS IMAGINARY VOTER
FRAUD WHEN, IN FACT, ITS GOING
TO PAY FOR TRUMPS STAFF AND HIS
TRAVEL AND WHATEVER ELSE.
BUT THEY SHOULD KNOW BY NOW THAT
THAT IS WHAT WOULD INEVITABLY
HAPPEN AND THATS WHO HE IS.
>> WHAT I FEEL, EUGENE, IS WORRY
FOR OUR DEMOCRACY AND I KNOW YOU
SHARE THAT CONCERN.
JONATHAN, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT
THE LATEST BRENNAN CENTER
REPORT.
THE BIG LIE GOOD FOR TRUMPS
BOTTOM LINE.
18 STATES HAVE PASSED 30 LAWS
CURBING BALLOT ACCESS, FOUR
CURBING THE USE OF DROP BOXES,
TWO STATES CUTTING BACK ON EARLY
VOTING HOURS.
NONE OF THE STATES HAVE PRODUCED
ANY EVIDENCE OF THE ELECTION
FRAUD THAT LED TO THESE VOTING
RESTRICTIONS.
ARE THEY PAST EVEN TRYING TO
JUSTIFY WHY THEYRE DOING THIS?
>> IT SURE SEEMS THAT WAY.
FOR A LOT OF THESE STATES THESE
ARE MEASURES THE REPUBLICANS
WANTED TO PUT IN PLACE A LONG
TIME AGO, AND WHAT HAPPENED WAS
TRUMPS BIG LIE GAVE THEM A
CATALYST.
THEY HAD AN EXCUSE TO DO SO.
THOSE STATES AND OTHERS ARE
CONSIDERING SIMILAR MEASURES.
AND THIS IS, FOR MANY DEMOCRATS,
THE EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO OUR
DEMOCRACY AND THEIR ABILITY TO
WIN ELECTIONS.
IF THEIR VOTERS ARE THE ONES
DISENFRANCHISED IT WILL BE HARD
TO WIN IN STATES WHERE THE
MARGINS ARE SO CLOSE.
THATS WHY THERES BEEN MOUNTING
PRESSURE ON PRESIDENT BIDEN TO
DO MORE HERE.
I WAS WITH HIM LAST WEEK IN
PHILADELPHIA WHEN HE GAVE HIS
VOTING RIGHTS SPEECH, AND IT WAS
A GOOD SPEECH, WELL DELIVERED.
ONE OF THE BEST HES DELIVERED
SINCE OFFICE T. MADE NO MENTION
OF THE FILIBUSTER.
NONE AT ALL THIS WEEK AT THE
TOWN HALL, HE SAID HE SUPPORTED
A TALKING FILIBUSTER BUT THERE
WASNT ANY SPECIFICS IN TERMS OF
WHETHER OR NOT HE WOULD LOBBY
DEMOCRATS TO DO THAT, TO MAKE IT
HARDER, TO MAKE IT HARDER FOR
REPUBLICANS TO STOP FEDERAL
LEGISLATION THAT WOULD PROTECT
VOTING RIGHTS WHICH MANY BELIEVE
IS THE ONLY WAY TO DO SO.
INSTEAD THE MESSAGE FROM THE
WHITE HOUSE IS THEY WANT TO OUT
ORGANIZE, DO VOTER TURNOUT, MAKE
SURE REGISTRATIONS CANT BE
CHALLENGED, TO RELY ON LEGAL
BATTLES, RELY ON THE DEPARTMENT
OF JUSTICE.
THATS ALL WELL AND GOOD, MANY
DEMOCRATS AND ACTIVISTS SAY, BUT
NOT ENOUGH.
THERES NO SUBSTITUTE FOR
FEDERAL LEGISLATION AND THEY
NEED THE PRESIDENT TO STEP UP.
>> YOUR SENSE OF WHERE THAT
RESISTANCE IS COMING FROM ON THE
PART OF THE PRESIDENT?
>> YOU KNOW, IM NOT SURE.
IM NOT SURE WHETHER HES JUST
DELIBERATELY TRYING TO PLAY IT
SOFT AND PLANS TO COME IN WITH
MORE FORCE AND DIRECTNESS.
I TEND TO SUSPECT NOT BECAUSE
TIME IS AWASTING AS THESE
MEASURES GET PASSED AND WERE
GOING TO BE IN THE ELECTION YEAR
CYCLE.
BEFORE YOU KNOW IT AND THEN IT
BECOMES UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE,
PROBABLY.
AND SO I THINK -- I DONT LIKE
TO RESIGN MYSELF OF A BAD
OUTCOME, BUT IM ALSO RESIGNED
TO THE FACT THAT DEMOCRATS ARE
GOING TO BE FIGHT INGING UPHILL
THE NEXT ELECTION AND MAYBE THE
NEXT COUPLE ELECTIONS IF THEY
HAD A BIGGER MAJORITY IN THE
SENATE, THEY COULD DO SOMETHING
ABOUT THE FILIBUSTER.
BUT THEY CANT NOW.
>> ITS ESPECIALLY INTERESTING,
JONATHAN, BECAUSE AT THE SAME
TIME THAT YOU HAVE THAT ASTUTE
ANALYSIS FROM EUGENE, YOU ALSO
HAVE REPUBLICANS ACTUALLY TRYING
TO EXPAND THE FIELD ON WHICH
THEYRE PLAYING.
SO "THE POST" REPORTING SUPPORT
IS GROWING IN THE TEXAS GOP FOR
AN AUDIT OF THE ELECTION
RESULTS, BUT ONLY IN BIG
COUNTIES WHICH MOSTLY WENT FOR
BIDEN.
I MEAN, DIDNT TRUMP WIN TEXAS?
WHAT IS THE POINT HERE?
>> EUGENES ANALYSIS IS ALWAYS
ASTUTE, FIRST AND FOREMOST.
YOURE RIGHT, THEYRE RUNNING UP
THE SCORE.
THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, THE WILL
OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS, TO
CHALLENGE VOTES, TO CHALLENGE,
TO RESTRICT ACCESS TO THE
BALLOT.
TRUMP WON TEXAS AND FAIRLY
HANDILY, BUT THAT COULD CHANGE.
FOR A WHILE NOW WEVE BEEN
HEARING HOW THE DEMOCRATIC SHIFT
IN THAT STATE, THE SECOND
LARGEST IN THE COUNTRY, COULD
EVENTUALLY FAVOR DEMOCRATS.
CERTAINLY MOST ANALYSTS BELIEVE
WERE A COUPLE CYCLES FROM THAT,
BUT IT COULD ACCELERATE.
IF THERE IS MORE INFLUX OF LETS
SAY PEOPLE FROM CALIFORNIA
MOVING TO TEXAS.
NOW DEMOCRATS HAVE TO DO A
BETTER JOB THAN THEY DID LAST
TIME AROUND, BUT THAT STILL IS
SOMETHING THAT IS A DEEP
CONCERN.
THEY KNOW IF THEY LOSE TEXAS AND
CALIFORNIA IS ALREADY IN THE
DEMOCRATIC COLUMN IT WILL BE
VERY HARD TO EVER BE ELECTED
PRESIDENT AGAIN.
THAT IS WHATS FUELING A LOT OF
THIS IN THESE STATES.
SOME MORE OBVIOUS SWING STATES
LIKE FLORIDA, GEORGIA, ET
CETERA, WHERE THEYRE TRYING TO
JUST HOLD ON TO POWER THERE AND
THEY HAVE THE STATE LEGISLATURES
TO DO IT.
AND RIGHT NOW THEY DONT REALLY
SEE ANY CONSEQUENCES.
THERES NO FEDERAL LEGISLATION
ON THE HORIZON AND NOTHING THE
DEMOCRATS IN THESE STATES CAN DO
EXCEPT FOR LEAVE AND GO TO
WASHINGTON, D.C.
THATS A TEMPORARY SOLUTION NOT
A PERMANENT ONE.
>> EUGENE, OF COURSE JONATHAN IS
RIGHT TO UNDERSCORE DEMOGRAPHIC
CHANGE IN A PLACE LIKE TEXAS
ESPECIALLY BECAUSE ITS A BIG
PART OF THE STORY.
THE AUDIT WOULD BE IN LARGER
COUNTIES.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE DEMOGRAPHICS
OF THOSE COUNTIES REALLY GETS AT
THE DARK RACIST ASPECTS OF THE
BIG LIE, THIS IDEA THERE WAS
MASS VOTER FRAUD NOT JUST
GENERALLY BUT SPECIFICALLY AMONG
VOTERS OF COLOR.
>> YEAH, RIGHT, MASSIVE VOTER
FRAUD WHERE BLACK AND BROWN
PEOPLE VOTE AND WHERE WHITE
PEOPLE VOTE. EVERYTHING IS FINE.
EVERYTHING IS FINE.
NO PROBLEM.
THESE SORTS OF VOTING
RESTRICTIONS, THIS IS A NEW LOAD
OF VOTER RESTRICTIONS WERE
GETTING, LIKELY TO GET.
IN THE SHORT TERM THEY CAN TICK
PEOPLE OFF.
IN THE SHORT TERM THEY CAN HELP
DEMOCRATS DRIVE TURNOUT AND SO
IN THAT SENSE REPUBLICANS SHOULD
BE CAREFUL WHAT THEY WISH FOR.
IN THE LONG TERM THATS WHAT I
WORRY ABOUT.
THAT INITIAL SORT OF ANGER AND
RESISTANCE THAT YOU MIGHT GET
FROM DEMOCRATS IN THE NEXT
ELECTION CYCLE OR THE NEXT ONE
AFTER THAT EVENTUALLY COULD FADE
AND THEN YOURE LEFT IN A
SITUATION WHERE DEMOCRATS ARE
MORE PERMANENTLY DISADVANTAGED.
>> AND TO SAY NOTHING OF THE
WAYS IN WHICH THEY ARE
STRUCTURALLY RESTRUCTURING
ELECTIONS.
JONATHAN, I DO WANT TO ASK YOU
TRUMP ISSUED A STATEMENT
ATTACKING AN ARIZONA STATE
SENATOR WHO SAID HE WAS
EMBARRASSED BY THE AUDIT AND
ENDORSING HIS CHALLENGER.
WHAT IS THE MESSAGE HES SENDING
HERE?
IS HE TELLING REPUBLICANS YOU
HAVE TO BE ALL IN ON ELECTION
FRAUD FANTASIES OR YOU DONT
BELONG?
>> TRUMP PUT OUT SOMETHING ON
BASHING CLEVELANDS NEW NAME.
HE IS TARGETING REPUBLICANS WHO
ARE NOT FULLY DEVOTED TO HIM.
WE KNOW HOW MUCH LOYALTY MATTERS
TO THE FORMER PRESIDENT.
ITS A ONE-WAY STREET OFTEN AS
HES BEEN QUICK TO CAST ASIDE
THOSE WHO DISAPPOINT HIM.
HE HAS BEEN NOT SHY IN ATTACKING
THOSE, WHETHER THEYRE FEDERAL
OFFICIALS OR IN THIS CASE LOCAL
ONES WHO ARENT DOING THAT.
THE LITMUS TEST IN THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY IS WHETHER OR
NOT YOU GO ALONG WITH THE BIG
LIE.
THAT IS WHAT IS FUELING THE GOP
AS IT HEADS TO 2022 AND TRIES TO
RECLAIM THE MAJORITY IN THE
HOUSE EVEN IF PERHAPS NOT THE
SENATE AND 2024.
WHETHER OR NOT TRUMP RUNS OR NOT
THIS IS SUGGESTING THAT TRUMP
WAS ROBBED AND THE VOTER ROLES
ARE TO BE DEALT WITH WITH
SUSPICION AND THEYRE TRYING TO
TAKE THE VOTES AWAY.
NO EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD VOTER
FRAUD.
NONE.
THIS IS WHAT THEYRE DOING.
TRUMP DEMANDS IT AND VERY FEW
REPUBLICANS ARE WILLING TO DEFY
HIM.
>> I HAVE TO READ FROM STATE
SENATOR BOYERS RESPONSE.
HAD TRUMP BUILT THE WALL LIKE HE
PROMISED, PERHAPS HE WOULD HAVE
PREVENTED THE 40,000 BAMBOO
BALLOTS FROM BEING IMPORTED AND