HOME, THEY WANT TO TAKE >>> JOINING US, THE FIRST
DEMOCRAT FROM ALABAMA ELECTED IN
25 YEARS, DOUG JONES, HE’S OUT
WITH "BENDING TOWARD JUSTICE."
SENATOR, WELCOME.
SENATOR, WELCOME. GREAT TO YOU HAVE WITH US.
I WANT TO ASK YOU FIRST ABOUT
THE TERRIBLE, DEVASTATING
TORNADOES THAT HIT YOUR STATE,
AT LEAST 23 PEOPLE DEAD,
INCLUDING CHILDREN THERE.
OUR HEARTS GO OUT TO YOU.
WHAT ELSE CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT
THE RECOVERY THERE?
>> UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS AN
ALL-TOO FAMILIAR SCENE FOR FOLKS
IN HALL BAM AALABAMA, WHETHER IT
HURRICANES OR TORNADOES.
THE GOVERNOR AND HER TEAM ARE ON
THE GROUND DOING INCREDIBLE
WORK.
WORK. I THINK THEY’RE STILL IN SEARCH
AND RESCUE, GOING THROUGH ALL
THE DEVASTATION AND FIND ALL THE
INJURED.
INJURED. HOPEFULLY THE DEATH TOLL WILL
NOT RISE AND THEN WE’LL START
THE EFFORT TO REBUILD.
ALABAMA HAS A RESILIENT PEOPLE.
THEY ARE NEIGHBORLY AND PEOPLE
ARE COMING FROM ALL OVER TO HELP
THE PEOPLE IN BOWEAUREGARD AND L
COUNTY.
COUNTY. >> THOSE PICTURES ARE
BREATHTAKING.
BREATHTAKING. AS YOU KNOW BETTER THAN I, YOU
JUST DON’T GET WARNING FOR THESE
THINGS.
THINGS. THEY DROP ON TOP OF YOU AND YOU
CAN’T GET OUT OF THE WAY.
>> WE’VE DONE A BETTER JOB BUT
THEY HAPPEN QUICKLY.
I WILL TELL YOU, I’VE SEEN THAT
DAMAGE FIRSTHAND, NOT THAT
PARTICULAR STORM.
PARTICULAR STORM. YOU CAN SEE THE VIDEO AND THE
PHOTOGRAPHS.
PHOTOGRAPHS. UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY WITNESS THIS,
YOU CAN’T POSSIBLY IMAGINE.
IT WILL TAKE YOUR BREATH AWAY
THE DEVASTATION THESE TORNADOES
CAN DO.
CAN DO. I’M VERY PROUD AT THE RESPONSE
THAT THE PEOPLE OF ALABAMA ARE
SHOWING RIGHT NOW AND I THANK
ALL OF THOSE AROUND THE COUNTRY
FOR THEIR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS
AS WELL.
AS WELL. >> WE JUST CAN’T NOT BELIEVE THE
PICTURES WE’RE SEEING.
BEFORE WE GET TO YOUR BOOK,
WHICH IS FASCINATING, I WANT TO
ASK YOU ABOUT SOME OF THE NEWS
THIS MORNING INCLUDING HOUSE
DEMOCRATS, THE HOUSE JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE LED BY JERRY NADLER,
FELLOW DEMOCRAT, SENDING OUT
LETTERS TO MORE THAN 80 PEOPLE
IN DONALD TRUMP’S LIFE, THE
DEMOCRATS SAID IF WE GET
ELECTED, WE’LL TAKE OVER THESE
COMMITTEES IN THE HOUSE AND WE
WILL EXERCISE OUR RIGHT TO
OVERSEE THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES AND THIS WHITE
HOUSE.
HOUSE. DO YOU SUPPORT THE EFFORTS BY
JERRY NADLER?
JERRY NADLER? DO YOU THINK IT’S A GOOD IDEA TO
HAVE THIS SWEEPING
INVESTIGATION?
INVESTIGATION? >> I THINK CERTAINLY YOU HAVE TO
START OVERSIGHT.
START OVERSIGHT. I THINK THE HOUSE FOLKS ARE IN A
MUCH BETTER POSITION THAN I AM.
YOU HAVE TO GO WHERE EVIDENCE
LEADS YOU.
LEADS YOU. AS IT COMES IN, YOU JUST CAN’T
IGNORE CERTAIN THINGS.
THEY’RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT
EVERY ASPECT POSSIBLE.
WE’VE GONE FOR TWO YEARS WITH NO
OVERSIGHT WHATSOEVER.
OVERSIGHT WHATSOEVER. I DO THINK WE HAVE TO BE VERY
CAREFUL NOT TO MAKE THIS ABOUT
AN INDIVIDUAL AND MAKE THIS
ABOUT OVERSIGHT AND ABOUT
ALLEGED CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OR
OBSTRUCTION AND NOT ABOUT AN
INDIVIDUAL.
INDIVIDUAL. I’VE SEEN THAT TOO MANY TIMES
WITH PROSECUTORS.
WITH PROSECUTORS. BUT I THINK CERTAINLY THERE’S
GOT TO BE THIS SIGNIFICANT
OVERSIGHT INTO WHAT’S GOING ON
WITH THE ADMINISTRATION.
>> ISN’T THIS PRETTY CLEARLY,
SENATOR, ABOUT ONE INDIVIDUAL,
PRESIDENT TRUMP?
PRESIDENT TRUMP? >> NO, I DON’T THINK IT IS ABOUT
ONE INDIVIDUAL.
ONE INDIVIDUAL. I THINK IT’S ABOUT THE
ACTIVITIES OF THE ADMINISTRATION
AT THIS POINT.
CLEARLY THERE ARE PEOPLE,
INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT, THAT
ARE INVOLVED IN THAT FOR SURE,
BUT I DON’T THINK THAT YOU CAN
SAY RIGHT NOW AT ALL THAT THIS
IS CLEARLY FOCUSED ON ONE
INDIVIDUAL.
INDIVIDUAL. I THINK THEY ARE GOING WHERE
THEY HAVE SOME INFORMATION AND I
THINK THAT THAT’S THE KEY.
I DON’T THINK YOU ISSUE BROAD
RANGE SUBPOENAS WITHOUT SOME
INFORMATION THAT THERE IS
INFORMATION THERE THAT YOU NEED
FOR THAT OVERSIGHT
RESPONSIBILITY.
RESPONSIBILITY. I THINK THAT’S THE RESPONSIBLE
THING TO DO.
>> SENATOR, THERE’S AN ALABAMA
WOMAN, AMERICAN-BORN WOMAN NOW
CURRENTLY IN SYRIA BEING HELD.
SHE IS BEING REPRESENTED BY A
COUPLE OF LAWYERS WHO ARE INTENT
ON GETTING HER BACK TO THE
UNITED STATES BASED UPON THE
FACT THEY CLAIM SHE’S AN
AMERICAN CITIZEN, WHICH SHE ONCE
WAS.
WAS. WHAT’S YOUR VIEW ON THAT?
SHOULD SHE BE ALLOWED TO RETURN
TO THIS COUNTRY?
SHOULD SHE BE ALLOWED TO RETURN
TO THIS COUNTRY IN HANDCUFF?
WHAT’S YOUR VIEW?
>> MY VIEW ABOUT THAT IS I THINK
SHE NEEDS TO FACE JUSTICE.
I DON’T KNOW THE DETAILS ABOUT
HER CITIZENSHIP.
HER CITIZENSHIP. THAT’S GOING TO BE BETWEEN THE
COURTS AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT.
AS A FORMER PROSECUTOR WHO HAS
PUT A COUPLE OF DOMESTIC
TERRORISTS IN PRISON BEFORE, I
JUST HAVE A FAITH IN THE
AMERICAN SYSTEM OF JUSTICE AND
THIS DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND
IN ANY SUCCEEDING DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE TO MAKE SURE THOSE WHO
HAVE COMMITTED CRIMES AGAINST
THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES
ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
I THINK IT SENDS A WRONG MESSAGE
THAT WHEN SOMEONE CAN COMMIT
CRIMES AGAINST THE UNITED
STATES, FLEE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY
THAT THEY GET ESSENTIALLY A GET
OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD TO REMAIN
SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN IN THIS
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. I THINK IT’S BETTER TO BRING HER
BACK, NOT WITH OPEN ARMS, NOT
WITH A WELCOMING PARTY BUT TO
FACE THE AMERICAN SYSTEM OF
JUSTICE.
JUSTICE. SHE COMMITTED A CRIME AGAINST
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND SHE
SHOULD FACE THE CONSEQUENCES.
>> YOU’RE THE FIRST DEMOCRAT TO
SUPPORT THE PICK FOR WILLIAM
BARR.
BARR. IT CAME OUT HE WILL NOT RECUSE
HIMSELF FOR OVERSEEING THE
RUSSIA INVESTIGATION.
RUSSIA INVESTIGATION. DOES THAT CONCERN YOU OR IS IT
AN APPROPRIATE DECISION?
>> I THINK IT’S AN APPROPRIATE
DECISION.
DECISION. I DIDN’T SEE ANYTHING IN MY DUE
DILIGENCE AGAINST BARR.
I HAVE FOLLOWED HIS CAREER AND I
TALKED TO HIM EXTENSIVELY ABOUT
THAT.
THAT. I DIDN’T SEE ANYTHING THAT WOULD
REQUIRE HIM TO RECUSE HIMSELF IN
THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION.
I FEEL THAT HE WILL DO THE RIGHT
THING.
THING. I THINK HE’S GOING TO PROTECT
THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION AND I
DO BELIEVE HE WILL DO WHAT HE
CAN TO MAKE SURE AS MUCH OF THAT
MUELLER REPORT IS MADE PUBLIC AS
POSSIBLE.
POSSIBLE. >> SENATOR, YOUR BOOK IS CALLED
"BENDING TOWARD JUSTICE, THE
BIRMINGHAM CHURCH BOMBING THAT
CHANGED THE COURSE OF CIVIL
RIGHTS."
RIGHTS." THIS WAS THAT DAY IN 1963 WHEN
FOUR LITTLE GIRLS WHEN KILLED AS
KLANSMEN PLANTED DYNAMITE UNDER
THE CHURCH.
THE CHURCH. WHAT CAUSED YOU TO WRITE THIS
HISTORY?
HISTORY? >> I ALWAYS FELT THAT THE CASE
SHOULD BE PUT DOWN, ALL OF THE
CASES, WHAT HAPPENED IN
BIRMINGHAM IN 1963 AS WE KNOW
IT, HOW WE CAME TOGETHER TO
PROSECUTOR THOSE CASES
SUCCESSFULLY AND TO GET THE
STORY, TO LET EVERYBODY GO
BEHIND THE CURTAIN TO SEE WHAT
HAPPENED AND HOW WE PUT THE
CASES TOGETHER.
CASES TOGETHER. UP
UP YOU KNOW, SOME 37 AND 38 YEARS
LATER, IT TOOK A LONG TIME FOR
ME TO PULL THAT TOGETHER.
I DO THINK IT’S IMPORTANT TO
REMIND PEOPLE WHAT HAPPENED IN
THE CIVIL RIGHTS ERA OF THE 50s
AND 60s IN PARTICULAR AND THE
CRIMES AND THE ATROCITIES.
PART OF THE CHURCH BOMBING
OCCURRED BECAUSE OF THE RHETORIC
OF PUBLIC PHYSICALS, WHETHER IT
WAS GEORGE WALLACE OR BEAU
CONNOR.
CONNOR. WE NOW SEE SO MUCH RHETORIC IN
THE SOCIAL MEDIA AND IN OUR
PUBLIC LIFE THAT WE HAVE TO
REMIND PEOPLE OF WHAT HAPPENED
SO WE HOPEFULLY DON’T DO THAT
AND GO BACK THERE AGAIN.
IT’S NOT JUST A BLACK-AND-WHITE
ISSUE ANYMORE.
ISSUE ANYMORE. IT INVOLVES RACE, RELIGION,
GENDER, YOU NAME IT.
THERE IS SO MUCH HATE AND
RHETORIC AND DIVISIVENESS THAT
THIS IS AN IMPORTANT REMINDER
THAT WE NEED TO CARE FOR EACH
OTHER MORE, RESPECT EACH OTHER
MORE AND CONSIDER THINGS FROM
OTHER PEOPLE’S POINT OF VIEW.
>> GENE ROBINSON HAS A QUESTION
FOR YOU.
FOR YOU. >> SURE.
>> SURE. >> JUST TO FOLLOW UP, WE ARE AT
A MOMENT WHEN RACE RELATIONS IN
THIS COUNTRY SEEM TO HAVE GONE
BACKWARDS.
BACKWARDS. AND I SEE SORT OF EXPRESSIONS OF
OUTRIGHT, OVERT VICIOUS RACISM
THAT I HAVEN’T REALLY SEEN SINCE
MY CHILDHOOD IN THE SOUTH.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, AS ANOTHER
SOUTHERNER AND AN AMERICAN, HOW
DO YOU SEE THIS ATMOSPHERE AND,
YOU KNOW, YOU HOPE THAT WE GET
OUT OF IT BUT HOW DO WE GET OUT
OF IT?
OF IT? HOW DO WE GET BACK ON THE PATH
OF THAT BENDING ARC BENDING
TOWARD JUSTICE RATHER THAN AWAY
FROM IT?
FROM IT? >> GENE, IT’S A GREAT QUESTION.
IT’S SOMETHING I THINK ALL
AMERICANS SHOULD BE CONCERNED
ABOUT THESE DAYS.
YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY I THINK
WE SEE SO MUCH IN SOCIAL MEDIA
WHERE PEOPLE CAN JUST SIT BEHIND
IN THEIR SILOS AND BEHIND CLOSED
DOORS AND THEY CAN JUST EXPRESS
THINGS THEY WOULD NEFF HAVEVER H
SAID TO SOMEONE FACE TO FACE.
I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE MORE
DIALOGUES IN THIS COUNTRY ABOUT
RACE AND RELIGION AND GENDER
EQUALITY.
EQUALITY. IT’S A MUCH BROADER CONVERSATION
I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE AND I
THINK WE HAVE TO DIAL BACK THE
RHETORIC.
RHETORIC. YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
UP SEE
UP SEE YOU SEE THE OVERT RACISM BUT YOU
ALSO SEE WHAT I CALL POLITICAL
RACE I, THE EFFORTS TO DENY
PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO VOTE, NOT
BECAUSE OF THE HATRED OF THE
RACE BUT BECAUSE OF THE
POLITICAL POWER THAT IT BRINGS.
I THINK ALL THAT COMES INTO PLAY
AND PEOPLE JUST GO TO THEIR
CORNERS WHEN THIS COMES UP.
INSTEAD OF HAVING THE
CONVERSATIONS, THEY JUST GO TO
THEIR CORNERS AND WANT TO YELL
AT EACH OTHER AND WE GOT TO GET
OVER THAT.
OVER THAT. WE GOT TO NOT HAVE THOSE KIND OF
DIVISIVE POLITICS.
DIVISIVE POLITICS. >> SENATOR, SOCIAL MEDIA
CERTAINLY INFLAMES THE SITUATION
ON AN ALMOST MINUTE-BY-MINUTE
BASIS IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT
WHAT’S YOUR VIEW ON WORDS AS
WEAPONS EMPLOYED BY THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES?
NOT NECESSARILY ON RACE BUT ON
DIVISION.
DIVISION. I MEAN, WE HAVE ENOUGH DIVISIONS
IN THIS COUNTRY AND YET A LOT OF
WHAT HE SEEMS TO BE SAYING
EXACERBATES DIVISIONS.
EXACERBATES DIVISIONS. >> I AGREE WITH THAT.
AND IT’S VERY DISAPPOINTING.
I DON’T THINK THE PRESIDENT OR
ANY PUBLIC OFFICIAL OR ANY
INDIVIDUAL SHOULD BE SAYING
THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
AGAIN, THAT KIND OF GOES BACK TO
WHAT I THINK IS MORE OF A
POLITICAL PLAY RIGHT NOW, TO TRY
TO, YOU KNOW, JUST TALK TO THE
BASE AND TO GET THEM SUPPORTIVE
AND ENSURE SUPPORT.
BUT IT’S VERY, VERY DIVISIVE.
I’VE BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT THAT
DURING THE CAMPAIGN, COMMENTS
FOLLOWING CHARLESTON AND
PARTICULARLY CHARLOTTESVILLE.
PARTICULARLY CHARLOTTESVILLE. I THINK THOSE THINGS KIND OF
HURT US.
HURT US. I GO BACK TO WHAT HAPPENED IN
ALABAMA.
ALABAMA. ANYONE WILL TELL YOU THAT
STUDIED THE HISTORY OF THE CIVIL
RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN THE SOUTH,
PEOPLE WERE EMPOWERED TO DO
THINGS THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN
OTHERWISE EMPOWERED TO DO.
WE’VE GOT TO BE VERY, VERY
CAREFUL ABOUT THAT.
>> THE BOOK IS "BENDING TOWARD
JUSTICE, THE BIRMINGHAM CHURCH
BOMBING THAT CHANGED THE COURSE
OF CIVIL RIGHTS."
IT IS OUT TODAY.
IF YOU’VE NEVER BEEN TO
BIRMINGHAM AND STOOD THERE NEXT
TO THE 16th STREET BAPTIST
CHURCH, IT’S SOMETHING YOU OUGHT
TO DO AT LEAST ONCE IN YOUR
LIFE.
LIFE. SENATOR, WE APPRECIATE YOUR
TIME.
TIME. >> GREAT TO BE HERE THIS
MORNING.
MORNING. >> STILL AHEAD, QUESTIONS ABOUT
WHETHER ROGER STONE VIOLATED HIS