First hearing in the United
States of America
versus Donald John Trump is now history.
If anyone has a good
inkling of what might be going on
in the mind of the former president,
it will be my next guest,
former Trump attorney and fixer
Michael Cohen,
the author of the book
Revenge How Donald Trump
Weaponized the U.S.
Department of Justice.
Against His Critics.
He also hosts the podcast.
Mia Culpa.
Michael, thanks so much for joining us.
First, let's just start
with your reaction to what we saw today.
I mean, I think it's fair to say
this is a much bigger deal.
And I don't mean to belittle
everything you went through,
but this is a much bigger deal
than hush
money payments to stormy Daniels.
Yeah.
So, first of all,
good to be here with you, Jake.
Wish I was there with you in D.C.
But today is like a bittersweet day.
If you think about it,
the fact that the former president now
federally indicted, where is the Alvin
Brady case is a state indictment.
It's a it's a terrible day for America.
But I'll tell you one thing
that it's a good day for,
and that's accountability.
Everybody believed that Donald Trump
was going to escape
all of the accountability,
whether it's the hush money payment,
whether it's this matter,
whether it's going to be
the Georgia case.
Nobody thought,
especially Donald,
that he would be held accountable.
And today
goes and shows you that truly
no one is above the law.
You, perhaps
more than anyone else
in the world, understands
the price, the cost
potentially of loyalty to Donald Trump.
Today, his aide,
Walt Nata, was next to him in court
and then remained by his side
at that campaign stop
at that Cuban-American cafe
even after they were indicted.
What's going through your mind
as you look at Walt? Not at.
What message would you have for him
I said it the other night
and I'll say it again.
Run, Walt, run.
All right.
Donald will throw
you under the bus
as fast as he threw me under the bus.
He doesn't care about anyone or anything.
The curious thing is,
I wasn't aware
that Walt actually had his own attorney
there.
Why is Donald not paying for an attorney?
Did he not learn once
what happens
when you leave people on their own?
In order to tell the truth
and speak truth to power?
Yeah.
One of the big questions
that I've been asking
all day of people
who know Donald Trump is why?
Why did he keep these documents?
Why did he show them to people
who don't have
classification to see them?
Why did he refuse to not turn them over?
Why did you refuse to turn them over
to the FBI?
None of it makes any sense to me.
Can you can you give me your best theory?
Yes.
I have said this on
CNN several times before.
It's definitively for nefarious purpose,
whether it's
turning some of this information over
to some of our adversaries for money,
whether it is in order to have power
to be able to say to the U.S.
government, if, in fact,
that you ultimately do indict me.
There are copies of this information
which will pose
a great national security issue
to the country
and use it as a
get out of jail free card.
Donald thought this through,
which is why
he actually went through the boxes,
which he stated that he did,
and told people,
don't look through my boxes.
Just say that there's nothing there,
because he knew
the significant information
that they contained.
And he intended to use it
for his own benefit
at some time,
either in the near future
or in the distant future.
It's also interesting that this case,
like the Stormy Daniels case, involves
damning information that Mr.
Trump gave to his attorney
in the Stormy Daniels case. You,
in this
case, Evan Corcoran, Trump's lawyer.
His notes are part of the indictment.
The allegation of Donald Trump
telling his attorney
to do things that are illegal.
That must have resonated with you?
Well, it did in
you know,
Evan Corcoran will ultimately do
the same thing that I did.
He will come forward
and he will tell the truth
and people will criticize him
for doing such
But it is at the end of the day,
I didn't use the information
in order to obtain any benefit, despite
what the Trump trash constantly
likes to attack me on.
That's not what I did.
I, I realized that my
you know, that I was going down
for somebody else's behavior
and I was not going to allow history
to remember me
as the villain of Donald Trump's story.
And given everything
you've been through
with the former president,
what are the emotions
going through your mind today?
Not as an American,
which you already talked about,
about how bittersweet they are.
But but as somebody who as you
as Michael Cohen,
as somebody who went through
everything you went through.
Is there a sense of vindication?
Is there a sense of
of of of righteousness?
What are you feeling?
Well, it's not vindication.
And I'm not elated over what I saw.
I am happy and I'm happy
that Donald
is finally being held accountable
for his own dirty deeds.
Look, I said that
I stood up
and I spoke to
whether it was Judge Pauley
whether it was the Mueller team,
whether it was the seven different
congressional committees
to the attorney general of New York,
the D.A.
of New York, to whomever
in law enforcement
that sought my information.
I stood up. I told the truth.
And at this point in time now,
I do believe that Donald
will be held accountable
And it will open up.
My my opinion
is it will open up more investigations
into other people
who worked alongside
the Donald Trump acolytes,
who also did things
that were injurious to our country
and to our democracy.
Michael Cohen,
thanks so much for joining us.
Appreciate it. Any time, Jake.