tonight.
Thank you to you both.
We appreciate your time.
Geoff: Can we are of course
watching this historic verdict
against the backdrop of the
current presidential election.
Joining us now is our political
team.
That is Lisa Desjardins, who
covers the trump campaign.
And Laura barron-lopez, who
covers the white house and the
Biden campaign.
Amna: We heard Donald Trump's
immediate reaction earlier and
he shall.
What are you hearing?
Lisa: The trump campaign are
using a single word over and
over.
Shameful.
According to house speaker Mike
Johnson, the T T elected
Republican in the U.S. Right
now, he wrote today is a
shameful day in American
history.
This was a purely political
exercise, not a legal one.
The weaponization of our
ecosystem has been a hallmark of
the Biden administration.
Obviously they have the first
president ever convicted of
felonies, they are going to say
this was wrong and they are
trying to put the blame on the
Biden administration.
But when you go deeper and talk
to other Republicans, some who
opposed former president trump,
like Asa Hutchinson, I spoke to
him a short while ago and he
said no, this speaks to
confidence in the justice
system.
He told me this is a very
serious moment, and he felt like
this was a very serious
decision.
He said he is not sure if this
will make a difference in the
campaign.
It is, however, potentially
making the difference in the
dollars for the trump campaign.
We have seen in the last hour
since he verdict was announced,
the site crashed because of
interest, and they believe they
would raised half $1 million to
$1 million.
Geoff: How was the Biden
campaign reacting to this?
One imagines they had a plan for
this outcome.
Laura: First, the white house is
essentially saying, my sources
there are saying president Biden
is not expected to address this
verdict today in any kind of
official form.
That could change in the coming
days if he gets questions from
reporters that are with him as
he travels.
And white house counsel
spokesperson said essentially
the white house respects the
rle of law and we have no
additional comment.
But a Biden campaign aide I
spoke to said the never expected
that any result in this would
ultimately help or hurt trump.
Now, when it comes to the
official statement the Biden
campaign put out, they said in
New York today we saw no one is
above the law.
There is still only one way to
keep Donald Trump out of the
oval office -- at the about box.
Convicted felon or not, trump
will be the Republican nominee
for president.
Again, they are saying right
there that they think that they
are going to persuade swing
voters based on issues, much
more than on this verdict.
Amna: Lisa, you have been
reporting on that potential
impact as this trial coverage
unfolds.
This is against the backdrop of
a major presidential election.
Some of the polling has shown
that most of the support for Mr.
Trump is baked in.
But do we have any idea what
this guilty verdict means for
his support?
Lisa: Up until now there has
been real divide over the
bringing of these charges and
whether politics was involved or
not.
I know we haha discussed that,
but I want to point back to the
polling.
We asked registered American
voters if the former president
was found guilty, would they be
more likely were not to vote for
him?
Among all registered voters,
just 15% said they would be more
likely, and 17% said less
likely.
Two thirds of those said it
would make no difference.
Let's look at Republicans though
in that same survey.
If Donald Trump is found guilty,
25% of Republicans said it would
make them more likely to vote
for him.
10% less likely.
These are folks who identify as
Republicans.
And it's happening when you talk
to Republican sources, this is
Republicans who believe that
this was a set up, a political
event, and that is why they say
it would make them more likely
to vote for him.
What does it mean to vulnerable
Republicans?
I talked to Dave Schweikert,
congressman in arizonanand a
tossup, a critical seat.
He said he does not think there
will be a difference from
voters.
He think's voters are locked in,
that trump has broad support
down ballot and does not think
that is changing.
There is question from deeper
Republican sources I talked to,
the Nikki Haley voters, unhappy
Republicans, independents, who
may secretly be Republicans or
-- but are not comfortable
saying there Republicans
anymore.
This is something Republicans
will watch.
Is this the kind of verdict that
will affect those voters, take
them away from trump and move
them to Biden?
Geoff: How is the Biden
campaign, how does this affect
their outreach to those moderate
Republicans and those voters who
supported Nikki Haley, who said
they will never support Donald
Trump under any circumstances?
Laura: The Biden campaign is
actively courting those Nikki
Haley voters, independents who
lean to the right, Republican
moderates.
People close of the campaign
told us this would have an
impact at the margins, and this
election is going to happen at
the margins.
That ultimately this creates a
new barrier for those moderate
Republicans to vote for Donald
Trump.
Are they going to become to move
voting for now a convicted
felon?
But I have some new reporting
from outreach by the Biden
campaign, specifically on this
voter group.
The Biden campaign held a call
last night with roughly a dozen
or so former Republican
lawmakers, specifically saying
that they needed their help with
outreach to these voters, that
they think are true persuasion
voters.
And these Republican lawmakers,
former Republican lawmakers told
him on the call, to really
enlist and use them.
They agreed that they are going
to create essentially work in
groups, where some of these
repugnant lawmakers are going to
be tasked with trying to get
bigger name Republican import --
endorsements for the Biden
campaign.
Some will be tasked as key
surrogates for the Biden
campaign, some will be working
on trying to get local state
Republicans to swing over to
Biden.
So, this just goes to show you
that the Biden campaign, with
the help of former Republican
lawmakers, is really trying to
reach out these moderate
Republicans.
They think the three areas they
can potentially do this on
aggressively are threats to
democracy and extremism.
This verdict feeds into the
extremism.
Reproductive rights, as well as
the economy.
Amna: Lisa, look ahead for us
now and what we see ahead in the
campaign.
Is this a message that you see
former president trump leaning
into?
Because it could potentially
motivate his base more.
Lisa: Absolutely, and not just
him.
Let's talk about the chairwoman
of the house or publican
conference, her job to keep the
majority.
She quickly came out with a
statement.
Her job is also to raise money.
We know the RNC has had trouble
keeping pace with the democratic
party.
This ISS something they have
already seen as a fundraising
boon to them.
We know former president trump
has done well when it is us
against the world.
When all of his supporters are
being attacked by someone.
We should expect him to say that
even more.
Geoff: Our great thanks to you
both for that incredible
reporting.
Amna: Let's return now to
William brangham in New York.
He has been inside the courtroom
today on this historic day.
William, how does all of this
fit into the broader legal
landscape that the former
president now faces?
William: As you say, this is the
first trial of his to go
actually to trial and be heard
in front of a jury.
As we have reported, there are
three other major cases Donald
Trump is facing.
There is the Georgia case, the
Fulton county case that alleges
election interference with state
officials in the 2020 election.
Trump and many other
codefendants in that case.
But that trial has no date set.
The lead prosecutor on that, the
D.A. Fani Willis, has a court
that is looking into whether or
not she should be removed from
that case.
So there is no progress on that.
The second case of course is the
January 6 case, a major case
being brought against Donald
Trump for his role in the
January 6, 2020 election
insurrection, trying to overturn
that election.
That case is also going nowhere.
It is waiting on a ruling from
the supreme court as to whether
or not Donald Trump has immunity
for any actions he took.
The third case is the classified
documents case in Florida, that
is also a federal case.
The judge in that case has
postponed that indefinitely and
it is on a fast-track to know
where.
So it is very likely that what
has just transpired here will be
the only case that Donald Trump
faces a jury before the
election.
And many people have argued,
it's inappropriate that voters
will go to the polls not knowing
whether or not the leading
candidate is actually guilty on
any of these major cases that he
is charged with.
We heard at the top of the
program that Donald Trump said
that the real verdict will be
November 5 and that is, in one
way, incredibly true.
Because if he is reelected, two
of those three cases will go
away because he is likely to
appoint an attorney general who
will take over the to permanent
justice and eliminate those
cases were dismissed those
entirely.
That is the January 6 case and
the classified documents case in
Florida.
Both of those would go away if
trump is president.
Georgia, we are not so sure
about.
So still very uncertain future
legally for Donald Trump.