Axes were brought out.
Machetes, swords... basically an orgy of butchery took place in that field.
What kind of kid were you?
What were you like as a kid?
Nerd.
You were a nerd.
Yeah.
So from the age of nine to the age of 12, over a 30-month period, I was able to memorise the Koran by heart.
The entire thing?
Yes. 6,236 verses.
While growing up in Saudi Arabia in the 1980s and '90s, I mean, it's a conservative place.
Women were segregated from men.
Even within the family, we don't see the opposite sex whatsoever.
I mean, basically, they are always veiled.
So it was a different way from growing up somewhere like the US or Australia or Europe.
It's completely different.
Your father passed away when you were very, very young.
But then also your mother passed away when you were 13.
Do you remember what that felt like, that moment?
Devastating in many ways.
Basically she was my moral compass.
She was my guide. My counsellor.
My educator. My teacher.
And at the same time a mother.
For her to depart in this way
brain aneurysm, sudden
at the age of 49
Threw me off track altogether, basically.
There was this sense inside me that the jihad didn't need me, but I needed the jihad.
The battle is on for a group of 15 houses
seized by the Muslims.
It is 'house to house' combat
of the most lethal kind.
The concept of jihad is a struggle.
And it's a struggle against injustice.
For my generation, it was the Bosnian jihad.
It was a genocide, even by United Nations standards.
That injustice pushed many of my friends and comrades at the time
basically to take up arms and to go to join the Bosnian jihad at the time.
When you decided that you were going to go to Bosnia
were you hoping to be martyred?
It was the aim and the goal.
So you pack up your savings.
you have a few thousand dollars of savings
You get on a plane
eventually land in Bosnia.
Was there ever a moment where the brutality of it
the bloodshed
made you question whether it was where you should be?
War has a brutal way of contextualizing any situation
so you feel that it's supposed to be brutal.
It's supposed to be savage.
But at some point, I witnessed mass murder against Serbian prisoners.
So these were your enemies?
Yeah. They were enemy soldiers captured in the battlefield.
What happened?
Axes were brought out.
Machetes. Swords.
Big knives. And basically, an orgy of butchery
took place in that field.
That was one of the moments that I had that little doubt in the back of my find.
That the war, more or less, had the negative effect on my comrades.
I mean, they came with such noble intentions
and they left with bitter, brutal souls.
Tell me about the first time you met Osama Bin Laden?
I remember it was the summer of 96.
I remember 14 of us climbed into one pickup
and all of us just looked like cattle.
In the back of the pickup,
we were shipped to go see him
and he laid it out very clear.
He would be taking on the Americans
in order to pave the way for the creation and the reestablishment of the caliphate.
We didn't give that much thought to it
because only about 20 percent of jihadists in Afghanistan
96 had anything to do with Al Qaeda.
That would change a year later.
We started to see their fire power.
We started to see their commitment.
We started to see their plan.
And then a year later, I was in his presence
swearing in allegiance to him.
In one of the camps in Afghanistan
I was responsible for the guarding duty roster
and there was a group of some difficult individuals
who really always told me that they are
always tired of the training.
Their training was so demanding and they
couldn't wake up at night, in the middle of the night
to do the guarding duties.
So I was telling my other colleague
I had it with them, I really had it with them.
He said, "Well, why don't you negotiate with them?"
"Talk with them."
I said, "Listen here, Farooq."
"You know perfectly well
I do not negotiate with terrorists."
The irony.
I wasn't so much disturbed by what Al Qaeda was developing
I was more disturbed by what my fellow trainees
were talking about in terms of how to use
what we are experimenting on against civilians.
Places like cinemas and places like nightclubs.
Theatres.
That, more or less, was against what I signed up for.
So, at some point you make a decision.
You're going to get out.
What was your plan?
A year ago, I was struck with malaria and typhoid.
Lost half of my weight and almost died.
I was taken to Qatar for treatment and then I returned.
I remember the hospital they were telling me,
"You need to come back a year later
just to check that there is no long lasting damage."
I used that as the excuse. As the pretext.
The next day, I was the guest
of the Qatari Intelligence Service
"Guest."
Guest, yes.
A guest who has to answer a lot of questions.
I was given the choice. Either to work with one of
the major intelligence agencies around the world
whether it's in the UK or France, in the US
I only had half an hour to make up my mind
and I was thinking really frantically,
"Does it have to be this way?"
And I was telling myself, "Well yeah. Maybe."
It has to be this way because once you are in this game
there is no going out. It's not going to be easy.
So you just turned 20 years old,
they taught you how to be a spy.
So when you are out on the street,
how can you tell when someone is following you?
First of all, the most important thing
is you have to have a confusing pace.
People will be always either
fast walking or slow walking.
You have to be somewhere in the middle there.
In the way that is different
from everyone else on the street.
When you spot someone who is at the
same speed as you, then you should be worried.
Use reflective surfaces.
A big shop window
which will expose the street behind you.
You will see if there are any people
who are following you.
If the same combination of clothes seem to be familiar,
and following you everywhere
then you have to be worried.
How can you tell when somebody doesn't trust you?
The eyes.
Yeah?
You can feel it. You can feel that tension.
You can feel someone is withholding
something from you.
They are economic with their answers.
Once you feel that, you give that person a lot of room.
And the most important thing in espionage
in human intelligence gathering
dont ask questions.
I know it's counter intuitive, but do not ask questions.
Explain to me the art of just letting information come to you, then.
How do you do that?
By volunteering information.
So, I want to know what you had for breakfast this morning.
I would be saying 'I had an omelette. And what an omelette it was. It was such a delicious omelette.
I had it with brown toast and everything. And all of that.
The other person is expected to chip in, and say they had porridge with banana and honey, or whatever.
So that's it. You start guiding them toward divulging information...
without the need to ask questions.
How were you outed as a spy?
I remember I was in Paris. It was Summer 2006.
I received a text message from an associate of mine from the Gulf.
He was telling me 'Go to the Time magazine website. What the hell is this?'
It said 'Human intelligence source uncovered a plot to attack the New York subway using chemical weapons.'
And I realised that I was the source.
It contained leaked intelligence from the CIA.
And, stupidly, they used my real first name.
Immediately, I called my handlers back in London even though it was Sunday.
And I was told, basically, 'Sorry to tell you but your spying days are over.'
And that's when it was decided that I would be going into banking.
Which is another form of terrorism, in my opinion.
There's a fatwa out on you.
Indeed.
What level of fear do you operate under, currently?
I'm not reckless, but I'm not fearful, at the same time.
The average spy lasts about 11 months. That's the life expectancy - 11 months.
And after that they're out of the game or buried six feet under somewhere.
I lasted eight years.
And I think that took its toll on me in terms of stress and health-wise.
And so therefore I thought maybe it was the right time, it happened at the right time.
I take precautions. I take extra precautions.
If anything were to happen to me it would happen because of God's will. I believe in God's will.
But, at the same time, I don't live my life in fear.
Aimen, thank you so much for your time.
Thank you.