them to provide additional grand
jury testimony in doj's criminal
probe into efforts to overturn
the 2020 election.
>>> Joining me now CNN legal
analyst and former federal
prosecutor, Elie Honig.
Great to see you.
A member of the January 6th
committee says criminal
referrals are coming in the next
week or two.
Do you think we will be seeing a
criminal referral for the former
president?
>> Well, we've heard mixed
messages on that, Jim, but let
me tell you as a former doj
prosecutor the last thing I
would want is a criminal
referral from congress.
Here is why.
It doesn't do anything for
prosecutors.
It doesn't help prosecutors in
any way.
They don't need a criminal
referral.
In fact, they're investigating
Donald Trump right now.
We know that.
That's why they appointed a
special counsel.
Here is what it does do.
It gives Donald Trump a talking
point.
It allows Donald Trump to say,
well, look at that, a bunch of
Democrats and Liz Cheney and
Adam Kinzinger, politicians on
capitol hill tell doj to jump
and doj jumps.
That will enable Donald Trump to
cast it as a political
prosecution.
It may not be a meritorious
argument but you can bet Donald
Trump will make it.
What I would want as a
prosecutor is all of the
evidence.
Doj has been asking the
committee for months now, and as
Sara just said the committee has
not turned everything over.
They say they will but that's
what would interest me if I was
a prosecutor on the case.
>> Right.
I want to ask you about some new
reporting just coming into our
newsroom.
Trump is calling for the
termination of the constitution
to overturn the 2020 election
and put him back in power.
The white house is now
condemning him for this.
Obviously this is just more
desperation from the former
president.
It is not going to happen.
What is your reaction to that?
I guess what might the justice
department think of that when
you go out there and you say
this sort of thing as they're
perhaps weighing making a case
against him?
>> Good lord.
I don't even know where to
begin.
>> Yeah.
>> I guess I will just summarize
in response to Donald Trump's
statement to say that virtually
every word of that statement is
wrong, crazy and dangerous.
I mean the only accurate thing
Donald Trump says is that to do
what he is recommending would
require termination of the
constitution which, of course,
would leave us without a
democracy.
I don't think doj is paying any
attention to this.
You don't -- sometimes you just
have to sort of look past the
hoopla and just focus on the
facts and the law that are
relevant to a crime.
So I think doj prosecutors are
looking at this statement,
probably rolling their eyes or
feeling some sense of disgust
and just ignoring it.
>> Putting it in file 13 where
it belongs.
But it does underline, once
again, his hostility to the
American way of life and
democracy in this country.
It is a reminder of what the
country was going through around
January 6th, just a few days
before the mid terms -- excuse
me, this run-off coming after
the mid terms.
Let me ask you this.
Pat Cipollone, the trump white
house counsel and his deputy,
pat Philbin were forced to
appear before a grand jury about
trump's efforts to overturn the
election despite challenges from
trump's legal team.
What should we be watching for
there?
>> What was really interesting
to me about this, Jim, it is
actually their second time
testifying in this grand jury.
They testified a few months ago.
We reported Evan Perez and our
team reported there was then a
secret legal battle.
Nothing wrong with that because
it is grand jury, it is supposed
to be over, over executive
privilege.
Now they're back and you can
call them as a witness and it
suggests to me doj prevailed on
the argument and now doj is able
to ask them what were your
conversations directly with
Donald Trump or at least about
some of those conversations.
To me that could really be
crucial evidence.
>> An appeals court also halted
the special master review of the
documents seized at mar-a-lago.
That is significant.
>> Yeah, this will enable doj to
speed up their investigation
because under the special master
those documents had to filter
through the special master who
would first review them, decide
if they could be seen by doj or
not, and if so pass them on.
Now the special master is gone,
and so doj as of this moment
unless there's some very
unlikely appeal to -- well, I
think trump will try to get it
to the supreme court but I think
it is very unlikely the supreme
court will take it.
So now the status quo is doj can