Natasha has so many issues on the table.
For those striking,
I understand
you are at a picket line
at the Netflix studios in Los Angeles.
Just tell us what
union members are saying to you there.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, Cristina,
a lot of discussion around
better compensation,
the protections regarding
artificial intelligence sense
where I could take
the digital likeness of an actor
and residuals
in the world of streaming services.
And that's where
I want to bring in our guest,
actor Britney Gamez.
And you have been doing some shows
and content for Netflix, for Hulu.
Tell me about what you were saying
earlier, that your brother is
also an actor
and was just receiving
a residual check for something
he did 30 years ago.
Yeah, my brother was an actor.
He's since retired,
but in the nineties worked a lot.
And we sometimes get residuals
and he'll get checks from broadcast
television shows that he did in 1995
that are worth more than residual
checks from big corporations for films
I did in 2020.
And that is
I think a big part of the reason
why people are out here today.
I understand
that streaming
is such an uncharted territory,
but there has to be some sort of cap
because they're making money.
All these millionaires are making money,
but nobody else
is seeing any of that money.
Tell me a little bit
about what
your life looks like
when you are doing a lot of content
for these streaming services.
Does it mean that you have to do extra
work for your day job just to,
you know, connect those moments? Right.
I mean, for me
personally, it's
been a lot of the in-between.
There's a lot of waiting and acting.
And I think in the days of pass,
you were able to get through
from job to job based off residuals.
And that is sort of gone away.
I mean, SAG represents
160,000 members,
95% of which can't pay their bills.
I mean, a lot of actors
that I have worked with
that I'm doing shows
would have to have side jobs in between.
I have to do side jobs
while working just to make ends meet
because the money is
just not what it used to be.
Even while they're on a show.
Yeah, absolutely.
100%. Yeah.
And then tell me about your concerns
regarding A.I..
What are your feelings on that right now?
I mean, it's
such a scary, uncharted territory.
I don't know too much about it,
but I know that the big threat right now
is that they can sort of
take your likeness
and use it for whatever they want.
I know it's
an even bigger threat to the Writers
Guild,
which is obviously out here tonight.
But so a corporation can pay
you a sag de ray
and that's supposed to last you
for months and months on end,
but they can use your likeness for years
and years and years.
How are you feeling today?
It's day
one for SAG-AFTRA,
but it's day 70
something for the Writers' strike,
which tells you
that this could be
a very extended experience.
I'm feeling really excited.
I've been out here
quite a few times
in support of the writers,
and the energy has always been good
but nothing like it is today.
Everybody is excited,
everybody is loud,
and I hope that we
just keep that energy going.
Is there anything that you're
hearing from the studios
where you want to send a message back?
I mean,
I just think you can't replace us.
What do you
what do you think you're doing?
My guy
like you think
that artificial intelligence
is going to be able to create stories
and tell the stories of our lives.
You can't do that.
Writers can't be replaced.
Actors can't be replaced.
Thank you, Britney.
And we're already
seeing a lot of financial impact
from the Writers' strike
that has been going on
for more than 70 days.
And now with SAG, after joining them
we've talked to a number
of local businesses,
people who run restaurants, janitors,
dry cleaners, makeup artists
who are not seeing their business
come in
because productions are at a standstill.
I did speak to the Milken
Institute's global chief strategist
who said that
that is going to be seen
now much more abroad as well outside
the United States in filming hubs
like the U.K.,
like Australia, like New Zealand,
and the global impact
could be at least $4 billion with the B
casino. Wow.
Wow.
Well, as you say, this is,
of course, a global issue,
not just in the United States.
And it seems, from what
your guest was saying there,
Natasha, that they are prepared to strike
for as long as it takes.
Natasha Chen there live from L.A..
Thanks for bringing us that Natasha.
And I'm glad that Natasha's
guest, Brittany, mentioned.
We want to talk about that
because the strike comes after actor
slammed the proposal from the studios
on how artificial intelligence
would be used in
movies and television shows.
In that groundbreaking A.I.
proposal,
they propose
that our background performers
should be able to be scanned,
get paid for one day's pay,
and their company
should own
that, scan
their image, their likeness,
and to be able to use it
for the rest of eternity in any project
they want
with no consent and no compensation
Well, Nina Schick is joining me now.
She's an author
and commentator specializing
in generative A.I.
And in a
thank you for
joining us on this important day.
We had a taste
just then
in that short clip we showed us of how
what impact, you know, the use of A.I.
could have.
And it's quite frightening, frankly,
to see it laid out.
You have called
Fran Drescher is speech,
that powerful speech
that's kind of been
at the front of every news line on this,
a moment of historical significance.
Can you just begin
by explaining how justified she is
and everyone else
in the industry
by their fear
that I could take over their jobs?
I think that this is going to become
one of the most personal debates
in society of long been
predicting that this is going
to get intensely political
because for the first time,
if you kind of consider the technology
revolutions of the past 30 years,
from the Internet to the smartphone,
it's all been about
building a digital ecosystem
and digital infrastructure
However, when it comes to A.I.
and in particular generative A.I.,
you can conceive of it
as a knowledge and creative revolution.
For the first time, you have machines
that are able to do
creative, intelligent output,
which we thought
was only unique to humans, right?
So the capabilities of Egypt
or the capabilities
of artificial intelligence
to actually clone people's biometrics.
So it's not
only the entertainment industry
that's going to be
utterly disrupted by this.
But I would argue that
all forms of knowledge
work, white collar work, creative works,
are going to be impacted
by the effects of artificial intelligence
and the key philosophical question.
This is the thing that Fran is getting at
and that SAG is getting at
is to
what extent is this going to augment
or automate us?
And obviously,
the fear with this action
is that it is going to automate us
and that we're not going
to be fairly compensated.
And what we're seeing with this revolt
really is the sort of beginnings
of this being voiced
really publicly for the first time
and for us
beginning to really understand
the ramifications of this,
as you laid out.
It seems to me that the question
of how far this goes, you know,
in this industry,
in this particular industry
depends on where the power lies.
Right at the moment,
we're seeing big names, big
acting names
come out in support of lesser actors.
But if that support wanes over time,
the question
is, you know,
how much leverage are industry insiders
going to have to prevent the use of AI
actually being used in this industry?
So I don't think that we are going
to prevent the use
of artificial intelligence
either in entertainment
or any other industry.
I think it's going to actually become
a fundamental part
of knowledge work
and creative work going forward.
But the question
as to how we put in place protections
and perhaps
in this case more,
how do we share
some of the incredible
abundance and economic abundance
that's going to come with this
AI powered revolution
and ensure
that, for instance, in this case,
if actors
digital likeness is being used,
that they're being fairly compensated
for that
because that should be a part
of their IP. Right.
But what Duncan from SAG-AFTRA
was referencing
was that
the studios were saying in perpetuity,
we now own the rights to your likeness.
This is not what we see
happening with big Hollywood stars.
For instance,
you might have seen
the recent
ad which came out with Jennifer
Lopez for
Virgin Atlantic,
I think it was, where it's an air
simulated version of her.
She's being compensated for that.
But our background actors
can be compensated, too.
So if you were advising
members of SAG-AFTRA, like what to do?
I mean, what protections
would you say to them,
you know, go get these.
This is what you need
for the future protection?
We were actually at an event together
in January
and at the time,
a lot of the conversation was about how,
you know,
this was
something that they were looking at,
but they didn't think that
it would be such a big deal.
And actors and writers
couldn't be replaced.
Now, six months,
just six months later,
the conversation is entirely different.
And it's very interesting
to see SAG and Fran
kind of
putting themselves
at the front line of what she pitched
very clearly in her speech
as a bigger battle for labor.
Right.
She said we are just the first,
but it isn't only about
the entertainment industry.
This is for all workers.
Now, she said this is a historic moment.
And indeed,
I do think
that speech has historic significance
because the issues and the fears
that she raised
are increasingly going
to become a core part
of public discourse,
discourse far beyond
I think, the entertainment sector.
I just want to show,
as we're referencing
sort of real life events
here, our viewers, a clip
from the recent Marvel movie
Marvel TV series where the studios
basically used air
and the opening credits.
They didn't use any graphic designers.
They didn't use any animators.
I don't know
if we can run that clip for you.
Here it is.
It was a kind of artistic take.
And this caused outrage,
of course,
because of how easily
people could be replaced.
But it also raises
issues
as we've been talking
about, of copyright.
You know, that
that speaks to your point
as well about bodies coming for actors.
I mean, is it
just the issue of copyright exist in AI?
Could that be used
as a potential protection?
It is unprecedented territory
and it is a territory
that is being litigated right now.
So some of the breakthroughs that you see
in this capability to generate to create
intelligent and creative work is nascent.
But already since the release of catch up
last November,
the conversation has dramatically shifted
to full capacity.
Capability and scale of this technology
is becoming apparent.
And a part of that
is that we've seen a bunch of class
action lawsuits
launched in the United States
against some of the creators
of these large general models
in which they argue
that the training data
used to create the synthetic or air
made content
is subject to copyright protection.
Now, that's all winding its way
through the courts.
It's going to be a big one.