and in the studio with me is chris calabrese and on the line who is the
uh...
who is the legislative council as in
oh attorney on privacy affairs for the a_c_l_u_ and and chris walken thank you
for joining us and david beer is on the line with us david is are coming in from
uh... where are you david
amended being all parties are infected paper covering from d_c_ as well
uh... your policy analyst of the competitive enterprise institute c_e_o_
i dot org a conservative
i think tank as it were ther conservative uh... yeah uh...
organization
and
uh... i think that we might have a topic here that we all agree on the this
immigration reform one of the
his of immigration reform this being battered about us being proposed
is that
you know
rather than having some sort of a system where you can just check if somebody's a
citizen bile plugging in a
so scary number and address has been like that like the
what's the name of the system right now crazy bear you verify thank you of a
rather than that let's give everybody a card that can't be easily counterfeited
'cause it's got biometric data like fingerprints and iris scans and maybe
even your d_n_a_ in it
and uh... you chris if you could just give us a a summary of this words words
this
a crazy idea coming from
and and by the way this in for some reason people think all built out yeah
illegal aliens a course they're gonna have to
but now this this would become political rebutting that's right it would buy the
everybody
the it's coming because congress is debating comprehensive immigration warm
and there's a
group of bipartisan senators who have some suggestions and proposed ideas for
what immigration reform should look like some of those centers senators favor
this type of biometric national i_d_ card
specifically senator schumer senator grams and
yet let's you know i uh... i had my i'm more often than not it eight quake at
least
i mean lindsey graham zonal jag officer he he should have some sense of of the
importance of the for the moment
and and and john mccain a scud little bit of a libertarian streak in him uh...
i'm brothers dot about um... david beer
uh... with the competitive enterprise institute did it
i think that you could make a case
that
i had uh... there been
the ability to
skin a group of people in instantly know who's in the group is a guarantee chip
odometer data on it now back pockets
in seventeen seventy three two hundred and forty years ago this year
that the boston tea party would not happen and we would not be in in a pen a
republican i'm not even arguing for of for violent revolution in like that
noticeably a protest
anonymity is necessary at a certain level it with an appropriate balance for
political action or at least a sense of anonymity monday consents
know that make perfect and i think that would put the cream court has said in
the past
and then in nineteen ninety-five decision for example they fed that
anonymity is this shield
that the minority have to materia majority
and if every single action that is you make
is is known are readily available public information
that means that any decision that you make
it therefore subject to the win
the democratic women of the majority so it
all of your decisions are publicly available
they will be subject to the congressional process do we want all now
that or do we not
and if you have their feet
era of an artifact of idi
it's much more difficult to regulate that type of
uh... anonymous private behavior
right and and and now this is this is where it gets into an area where perhaps
will have some disagreement
chris earlier calories
this p comes public information
public information is subject to acquisition by private entities
uh... you know right now liking biking
buy from a private corporation lists of registered voters right
because those registered voter list serve
government data so they made available i can buy the citadel a driver's license
as i can buy lists of people who have in a donated to certain causes and
therefore as a consequence allister political because as a particular as a
consequence
they've had to give the government their information
and so with this information could also end up in corporate hands
and frankly i'm
more concerned about corporate earnings in government turning out in this uh...
is this not
the is that not a possible
well i will say i'm concerned about both
i mean i think that that this is really well this is a tool really for social
control right now you could
the things that you used to be open to as enough free citizen
you know by something you now have to present this clark right it's not just
deployment reso you write they've been the private sector piggy backs on the
presentation of the card and says all you want to chop at walmart you want to
buy something we want this car just to know who you are so we can better serve
you which is how it started with the social security number it used to be i'm
old not remember when it was against the law for private corporation asking your
social security number
and now do you know it's a routine question so once they have that
information you walk in a macy's and they know exactly which departments a
steer you to a products to send you to you know what your income maybe all the
details of you
um... this is that world of that tom cruise movie
yeah minority report miami you can even see it you can imagine starting with the
health care jane
writing which of the the president's part of the president's health care plan
so we want to limit particular people say undocumented aliens from getting
healthcare we begin with the some kind of carden cell if you don't have the
card you shouldn't go the health interest won't get this done document
people right now we're going down a path for what you buy in this country but you
know with the private entity right regulates our health insurance cutting
health insurance company you know it's a good or bad a cover art
reagan in many cases although benny individuals prompted area and david your
thoughts on that
work actually much more dangerous then even crystal tribes right so if you have
acquired
requires electronico authorization to be able to be used to get work
that could be used to contribute
to enforce almost any social polity but the government wants
so you just didn't know i a a work access until compliance with this other
regulation
it secured for example during the nineteen nineties behalf representative
to actually voted on a provisional what is
uh... basically made
uh...
made any sort of uh... check
by you verified
check also whether or not you had
where you whether or not you were behind on student loan payments for example so
if you're not paying your student loans you might get denied work until you make
the payment
or that sort of thing so
if they want to track down people who are behind on their taxes or
uh... you know i think that's a donor child report or or whatever the
government wants to do
depend on wed april force
uh... compliance with the other regulation as well
well i'm chris couldn't
uh... you know i'm sure that there's going to be people who are gonna make
the argument that's a social good
actually you know stopping deadbeat dads
who's against that it on child support to go it alone kitties
there's you know there's a social good but there's a lot of other ways cabinet
and one of the things that you mentioned earlier is that this will apply to
everybody
not only will apply to everybody it'll have to be issue everybody so a matching
having the government have to have hundred-percent accuracy your personal
information before you can do something like that work
reitman anybody think that the government's got a hundred percent
accuracy
anything right and then when and then and then once that information is for
sale on the public domain
uh... you know ricketts aggregated by company sister reselling and we're gonna
pay for this to you by the way i mean you think that the cost your driver's
license i mean that we just so we have just a minute left was the alternative
chris
the alternative to this is to do what we we've always said we need to do which is
in force the laws at
that we have a really good laws right now around worksite protection and
saying that you shouldn't hire insist artist are putting employers in jail you
know it's not that wants to spend all this money
spend it on making sure that everybody has a good work conditional can that'll
keep from higher david here's your thoughts on the altar
i think that
allowing legal immigration would uh... enough provide an alternative to a legal
employment dot that what we need a new here profits here hear of fan of opening
our borders whiter
alright interesting interesting perspectives interesting thoughts
on david beer
chris calgary's thank you both for being with us thanks so much
much appreciate will be back
this is the common hartman so is a national i_d_ colin eyes are we turning
into a your papers please society
without someone would have to