NEWEST BOOK TITLED "FOR THE LOVE OF MEN."
OF MEN." >> LIZ PLANK, THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US.
JOINING US. >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> TALK ABOUT YOUR NEW BOOK OUT
THIS MONTH, "FOR THE LOVE OF
MEN."
MEN." WHEN YOU ANNOUNCED THIS BOOK ON
SOCIAL MEDIA, I NOTICED YOU WERE
ALMOST APOLOGETIC ABOUT THE FACT
THAT YOU AS A WOMAN, AS A
FEMINIST WRITER WHO WRITES ABOUT
WOMEN, HAD CHOSEN TO WRITE A
BOOK ABOUT MEN.
TELL ME ABOUT THAT.
>> I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE
ARE EXPECTING ME TO WRITE A BOOK
ABOUT WOMEN.
ABOUT WOMEN. I FOCUSED ON WOMEN FOR THE LAST
TEN YEARS.
TEN YEARS. I’VE BEEN REPORTING.
AND I REALIZED THAT IF WE DIDN’T
FOCUS ON MEN, THOUGH, WE WERE
NEVER GOING TO SOLVE WOMEN
PROBLEMS.
PROBLEMS. MEN GET TO TALK MORE.
THEY MAKE UP THE VAST MAJORITY
OF OUR PUBLIC OFFICIALS IN
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. EVEN IN THE MEDIA.
MEDIA, IT’S STILL MEN.
BUT WHAT KIND OF STORIES ABOUT
MEN ARE BEING TOLD?
AND IS THERE REAL STORYTELLING
ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A MAN
IN OUR SOCIETY AND RETHINKING
WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A MAN, NOT
NECESSARILY, AND SO I SAW THIS
OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE MORE
ATTENTION TO MEN IN A VERY
SPECIFIC WAY THAT I JUST WASN’T
SEEING.
SEEING. >> WE TALK A LOT ABOUT IN THE
EDUCATION SPACE, THIS
ACHIEVEMENT GAP.
ACHIEVEMENT GAP. WE’RE BEGINNING TO NOTICE
BETWEEN BOYS AND GIRLS.
BOYS ARE UNDERPERFORMING AT
SCHOOLS.
SCHOOLS. AND WHAT WAS REALLY INTERESTING,
WHAT I HADN’T KNOWN BEFORE
READING YOUR BOOK IS IT’S
ACTUALLY REALLY INFLUENCED BY
SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS.
SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS. CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THOSE?
>> YEAH, I THOUGHT THAT WAS SOME
OF THE MOST FASCINATING DATA
THAT I CAME ACROSS.
SO THE GENDER GAP IS COMPLETELY
REVERSED IN SCHOOLS.
THIS GENDER ACHIEVEMENT GAP
BETWEEN BOYS AND GIRLS
DISAPPEARS.
DISAPPEARS. AND SO YOU SEE AN ENVIRONMENT OF
LOW RESOURCE, OF LOW INCOME,
MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES.
MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES. YOU REALLY SEE THE GENDER GAP
REALLY COME ACROSS.
THE BOYS ARE REALLY MORE IN THE
ENVIRONMENTS THAN GIRLS DO AND
GIRL THE STRUGGLE, TOO, BUT
THERE’S NOT AS MUCH OF A HIT ON
THEM.
THEM. >> YOU WRITE THAT AT SOME POINT
YOU BECAME AWARE OF YOUR OWN
SORT OF COMPLICITY.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> ENFORCING SOME OF THESE
GENDER STEREOTYPES.
GENDER STEREOTYPES. YOU TALK ABOUT TRYING TO GO ON A
CHIVALRY DIET.
CHIVALRY DIET. THIS IS AFTER REALIZING THAT
YOU’D LET MEN BUY YOU DINNER ON
FIRST DATES, THAT YOU’D ACCEPTED
KIND OF CUTE ROMANTIC GIFTS.
YOU EXPECTED HIM TO OPEN THE
DOOR FOR YOU SOMETIMES.
WHAT IS THE CHIVALRY DIET AND
HOW SUCCESSFUL WAS YOURS?
>> IT WAS REALLY SUCCESSFUL.
IT WAS REALLY HARD TO START LIKE
A NEW DIET, I THINK, BUT I
HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT.
IT WAS -- DECIDED, YEAH, TO CUT
IT OFF COLD TURKEY AND I THOUGHT
I WOULD LOSE A LOT.
I WAS LIKE, AM I ALLOWED TO PAY
FOR MY OWN, AM I GOING TO FEEL
NOT TAKEN CARE OF, AM I GOING TO
MAKE THE MAN I’M WITH
IMMASCULATED?
IMMASCULATED? >> I THINK THE DOOR THING IS A
DIFFERENT THING.
DIFFERENT THING. I DON’T HAVE PROBLEMS WITH
POLITENESS.
POLITENESS. THINK EVERYONE SHOULD OPEN THE
DOOR FOR EVERYONE.
AS A CANADIAN, I GET VERY OFFEND
OFFENDED WHEN PEOPLE DON’T LOOK
BACK WHEN THEY’RE AT A DOOR TO
SEE IF SOMEONE’S BEHIND THEM TO
KEEP THE DOOR OPEN.
>> THE CANADIAN, I AGREE.
>> THANK YOU, WE’RE IN AGREEMENT
ON THAT.
ON THAT. HOPEFULLY THAT’S NOT
CONTROVERSIAL.
CONTROVERSIAL. OBVIOUSLY, I THINK THOSE THINGS
ARE GENERAL POLITENESS AND
EVERYONE SHOULD BE -- BUT IN
CONTEXT OF ROMANTIC
RELATIONSHIPS, WE DO FALL INTO
THESE GENDER ROLES.
EVEN WHEN WE HAVE A MASTER’S IN
JEBDER THEORY AND COME FROM A
VERY PROGRESSIVE HOUSEHOLD AND
VIEW OURSELVES AS FEMINISTS AND
EXUDE THOSE, YOU KNOW, BELIEFS
ALL OVER THE PLACE.
I REALIZE THAT EVEN THOUGH I
DIDN’T THINK THAT I OWED YOU
SOMETHING BECAUSE WHO CARES IF
YOU PAY FOR MY DINNER, I DON’T
OWE YOU SEX, I DON’T OWE YOU
AFFECTION, I DON’T OWE YOU
ANYTHING ELSE, IMPLICITLY, IT
DOES SORT OF AFFECT THE
RELATIONSHIP.
RELATIONSHIP. THERE’S A POWER DYNAMIC THERE.
WHEN ONE PERSON IS FINANCIALLY
DETERMINING THE TRANSACTIONS AND
THAT’S SUPPLYING THE HOUSE,
SUPPLYING THE MEALS,
SUPPLYING -- THERE’S -- IT
CREATES A WEIRD POWER DYNAMIC
AND I STARTED FEELING SO MUCH
FREER IN MY RELATIONSHIPS AND
STARTED SAYING WHAT I NEEDED AND
NOT FEEL BAD ABOUT IT AND I
DIDN’T REALIZE HOW BAD I WOULD
FEEL ABOUT IT IF I LET ALL OF MY
CONTROL -- IF I LET THE OTHER
PERSON BASICALLY HAVE ALL THAT
CONTROL OVER ME AND, LIKE, WHAT
I WOULD DO.
>> INTERESTING.
>> INTERESTING. >> YEAH, I WAS TOLD NO MAN WILL
BUY YOUR BOOK.
I WAS TOLD, MEN WON’T BUY YOUR
BOOK.
BOOK. A LOT OF PUBLISHERS PASSED ON MY
BOOK, ACTUALLY.
BOOK, ACTUALLY. AND I THINK THAT WE’RE PROVING
THAT -- I MEAN, I’M SEEING IT IN
THE RECEPTION OF THE BOOK IN MY
LUNCHEON
LUNCHEON LUNCHEON, IN THE POSTS THAT ARE
BEING SHARED, A LOT OF MEN WHO
ARE REALLY THANKFUL FOR THIS
BOOK AND THANKFUL FOR THIS
CONVERSATION AND WHO HAVE BEEN
HAVING THIS CONVERSATION.
THEY CAN HAVE A SORT OF WAY TO
BRING IT UP.
I HOPE THIS WILL BE SPREAD
AMONGST PEOPLE IN THEIR OWN
COMMUNITIES AND HAVE THEIR OWN
CONVERSATIONS BEYOND WHAT’S IN