>> Stephen: WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY NEXT GUEST WAS A FOUR-STAR ADMIRAL IN
THE U.S. NAVY AND SERVED FOUR YEARS AS SUPREME ALLIED
COMMANDER OF NATO.
HIS NEW BOOK IS CALLED, "TO RISK IT ALL."
PLEASE WELCOME, ADMIRAL JAMES STAVRIDIS.
♪ ♪ ♪
>> Stephen: ADMIRAL, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> MY PLEASURE.
>> Stephen: WE WILL GET TO YOUR BOOK IN JUST A MOMENT.
HERE IT IS.
IT IS CALLED "TO RISK IT ALL."
BEFORE WE GET INTO TALKING ABOUT NATO AND THE SITUATION IN EUROPE
RIGHT NOW AND YOUR BOOK, I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT,
WELL, A STORY RELATED TO WHAT'S GOING ON NOW DOWN IN TEXAS.
IT HAPPENS TOO OFTEN, THE TRAGEDIES WE SEE.
IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, THE AR-15 WAS DESIGNED TO BE ESSENTIALLY A
CIVILIAN VERSION OF THE M-16 THAT HAS BEEN USED FOR DECADES
BY THE U.S. MILITARY.
>> YES.
>> Stephen: YOU SPENT 37 YEARS IN THE MILITARY.
YOU-- YOU WERE IN WARS.
YOU SAW BATTLE.
DO YOU THINK THAT CIVILIANS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PURCHASE
WEAPONS THAT WERE SPECIFICALLY MEANT TO BE USED IN BATTLE?
>> I'LL ANSWER IN THREE WORD: OF COURSE NOT.
( APPLAUSE )
I SPENT MY LIFE IN THE PROFESSION OF ARMS.
I CHOSE THE GUN.
IUNDERSTAND WHAT THIS MEANS.
I'VE SEEN HARD THINGS IN MY LIFE ON BATTLE FIELDS.
THESE ARE DESTRUCTIVE, POWERFUL WEAPONS.
THEY SHOULD NEVER, PLACED IN THE HAND OF AN AMATEUR OR,
ESSENTIALLY A CHILD.
LOOK, YOU HAVE TO BE 21 YEARS OLD TO BUY A BEER IN THE UNITED
STATES OF AMERICA.
YOU CAN BUY A LONG GUN WHEN YOU'RE 18.
WE'VE GOT IT UPSIDE DOWN.
( APPLAUSE )
ONE OF THE THINGS-- ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS THE SUBJECT OF
MUCH DISCUSSION OVER THE LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS IS WHAT
AMERICA IS BEGINNING TO LOOK LIKE TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD.
OUR INABILITY TO GOVERN OURSELVES OR TO COMMUNICATE WITH
EACH OTHER AS WE ATTEMPT TO FIND SOME SORT OF COMMON CAUSE IN OUR
GOVERNANCE.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THESE KIND OF EVENTS, THE FIGHTS WE HAVE OVER
THINGS LIKE THE SECOND AMENDMENT, WHAT KIND OF IMAGE
DOES THAT PROJECT TO THE REST OF THE WORLD NOW?
>> YOU KNOW, STEPHEN, I JUST FLEW HERE FROM EUROPE, AND
THROUGHOUT MY TIME IN EUROPE OVER A FEW DAYS, CONSTANTLY
PEOPLE WOULD ASK ME, "WHAT IS GOING ON BACK IN YOUR COUNTRY
WITH THESE MASS SHOOTINGS?" IT IS A TOPIC OF CONVERSATION
AMONGST OUR GREATEST POOL OF ALLIES.
AND SO THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION IS WE DIMINISH OUR ROLE
IN THE WORLD SIGNIFICANTLY.
WE LOSE THE ABILITY TO STEP FORWARD, BE AN EXAMPLE TO THE
WORLD IF WE CANNOT SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS OF DISORDER IN OUR
HOUSE HERE AT HOME.
>> Stephen: WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE UNITED STATES'
RELATIONSHIP TO THE REST OF THE WORLD THROUGH OUR ALLIES IN
NATO.
FROM 2009 TO 2013, YOU WERE NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER, WHICH
IS A FANCY-PANTS TITLE.
AND I'M JUST CURIOUS WHAT EXACTLY DOES "SUPREME ALLIED
COMMANDER" DO?
>> IT'S A TERRIFIC QUESTION.
YOUR JOB IS TEAM BUILDING.
YOUR JOB IS TO SPEAK TO THE-- AT THE TIME I WAS SUPREME ALLIED
COMMANDER-- THE 28 NATIONS OF NATO, NOW 30-- GOD WILLING 32
SHORTLY WHEN FINLAND AND SWEDEN JOIN.
( APPLAUSE )
ALL THESE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AND GET THEM ON THE SAME SHEET
OF MUSIC.
AND THAT SOUNDS PEDESTRIAN.
BUT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, A COMBAT MISSION IN
AFGHANISTAN, AND YOU HAVE TO ENCOURAGE THE ICELANDERS AND THE
LUXOM BERGERES TO KEPLOY TROOPS-- SMALL NUMBERS, DUT
TROOPS-- ALONGSIDE THE GERMANS AND THE FRENCH AND THE BRITAINS,
IT'S A HUGE MELANGE OF CULTURE.
THE JOB WAS BRINGING THE TEAM TOGETHER, GETTING THE BAND
TOGETHER, AND GETTING US FORWARD ON OUR MISSION S.
>> Stephen: NOW, NATO, WHICH-- IS IT RIGHT THE SORT OF
PUBLIC PERCEPTION DURING THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION THERE
WAS SORT OF FRACTURES IN THE RELATIONSHIPS IN NATO?
>> YES.
>> Stephen: OKAY, RIGHT.
AND THAT WAS ALL TO PUTIN'S LIKING.
>> INDEED.
>> Stephen: AND HE WAS HOPING THAT THAT WOULD INCREASE WHEN HE
INVADED UKRAINE.
BUT QUITE THE OPPOSITE HAS HAPPENED, EVIDENTLY, AND NOW
FINLAND AND SWEDEN, AS YOU SAID, MIGHT BE JOINING.
>> WHAT'S THAT PROCESS UP?
YOU CAN LOOK IT UP, FINLAND, SWEDEN APPLY TO JOIN NATO, AND
YOU'LL SEE PICTURES OF THEIR AMBASSADORS BRINGING RATHER
LARGE DOCUMENTS SEALED WITH WAX AND SEALS TO APPLY --
>> Stephen: SEALED WITH WAX?
>> IT'S A TRUE FACT.
>> Stephen: THAT'S LIKE A PAPAL EDICT?
>> IT'S VERY CLOSE TO THAT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO BURN PAPER TO
CHOOSE A NEW SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER.
IT'S WHITE SMOKE.
BUT I WILL SAY THIS IN DEADLY SERIOUSNESS-- WE WANT, WE NEED
SWEDEN AND FINLAND IN THIS ALLIANCE.
AND LET ME TELL YOU WHY.
THESE ARE TWO NATIONS WHO DEPLOYED ALONGSIDE NATO AGAIN
AND AGAIN.
THEY SENT TROOPS TO AFGHANISTAN, TO THE BALKANS, TO LIBYA.
I HAD THESE TROOPS UNDER MY COMMAND.
THEY ARE PROFESSIONAL.
THEY ARE BRAVE.
THEY'RE TECHNOLOGICALLY ADVANCED.
THEY'RE REALLY TALL, WHICH IS
>> Stephen: CAN SEE OVER HEDGES AND STUFF.
>> INDEED, I'M LIKE 5'5", SO THE SWEDES TO ESSENTIALLY HARASS ME
WOULD SEND A SECURITY DETAIL OF THESE 6'4-"INCH VIKINGS WHICH
WOULD FOLLOW ME AROUND THE BALKANS PROTECTING ME.
THOSE ARE THE KIND OF PEOPLE YOU WANT ON YOUR SIDE-- TALL PEOPLE.
>> Stephen: HENRY KISSINGER SAID SOMETHING INTERESTING
RECENTLY.
HE SAID THAT UKRAINE HAS TO GIVE UP SOME LAND TO RUSSIA OR ELSE
IT PUTS RUSSIA SORT OF IN A BAD POSITION, LIKE BACK ON THEIR
HEELS, AND IT WILL LEAD TO GREATER TENSION.
AND I'M WONDERING WHAT YOU THINK OF THAT ASSESSMENT.
DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S A REASONABLE THING TO ASK THE
UKRAINIANS TO GIVE UP SOME LAND?
>> I DO NOT.
I THINK, HOWEVER, THESE ARE DECISIONS NOT FOR HENRY
KISSINGER OR JAMES STAVRIDIS OR STEPHEN COLBERT.
THESE ARE DECISIONS FOR UKRAINIANS.
I MEAN THAT VERY SERIOUSLY.
OUR JOB IS TO GIVE THE UKRAINIANS THE MILITARY TOOLS,
THE WEAPONS, THE DIPLOMATIC SUPPORT, THE INTELLIGENCE, THE
CYBER SECURITY OVERSIGHT, GIVE THEM THE TOOLS THAT CREATE
OPTIONS FOR THEM.
IF THEY THEN DECIDE TO NEGOTIATE WITH RUSSIA, THAT'S THEIR
CHOICE.
>> Stephen: YOU HAVE THE NEW BOOK "TO RISK IT ALL," THESE ARE
ABOUT NINE FAMOUS NAVAL CONFLICTS AND THE CRITICAL
DECISION MAKERS IN THOSE CONFLICTS.
WHO OF THOSE DECISION MAKERS, WHICH ONE OF THESE CONFLICTS, DO
YOU THINK IS THE MOST APPLICABLE THAT WE COULD LEARN THE MOST
FROM IN OUR TIME.
>> I'M GOING TO CHEAT SLIGHTLY AND PICK TWO AND I'M GOING TO DO
IT FAST.
>> Stephen: OKAY.
>> NUMBER ONE, BECAUSE ANY NAVY OFFICER IS GOING TO SAY THIS,
JOHN PAUL JONES, WHO FOUGHT FOR THE REPUBLIC IN ITS EARLIEST
DAYS, AND HE WAS IN A TERRIBLE BATTLE, LOSING AWFULLY.
HIS CREW WAS ABANDONING HIM.
AND, YET, HE STOOD AND DELIVERED, AND THESE ARE THE
WORDS, "I HAVE NOT YET BEGUN TO FIGHT."
SO YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT THAT AND THINK OF ZELENSKYY, WHO IS
THIS CHARISMATIC FIGURE, WHO IS LEADING HIS NATION, W WHO IS
UTTERLY DETERMINED TO SAVE HIS COUNTRY, HIS ELDERS, HIS FAMILY,
HIS LANGUAGE, HIS CIVILIZATION.
YOU HAVE TO RESPECT THAT.
THE SECOND ONE-- AND A STORY I LOVE IN THE BOOK-- IS ABOUT A
NAVY ENLISTED MAN, A SAILOR NAMED DORY MILLER.
HE'S AFRICAN AMERICAN, IN THE 1930s.
NOT A LOT OF OPTIONS WHERE HE COMES FROM IN TEXAS.
SO HE JOINS THE NAVY.
THE BAD NEWS IS THE NAVY OF THAT ERA IS SEGREGATED.
IT IS NOT A LOT OF GREAT PLACES HE CAN GO.
AND HE ENDS UP ESSENTIALLY AS A COOK ON ONE OF OUR SHIPS.
BUT HERE'S THE STORY: PEARL HARBOR, THE GUNS ARE FIRING, THE
TORPEDOES ARE LAUNCHED, THE BOMBS ARE DROPPING.
DORY MILLER LEAVES THE WARD ROOM WHERE THE OFFICERS' MESS IS, AND
LITERALLY GOES TO THE GUNS AND HE FINDS HIMSELF WITH AN
ANTI-AIRCRAFT GUN THAT HE REALLY DOESN'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW TO
OPERATE.
A COUPLE OF OTHER SAILORS ARE THERE WITH HIM.
THEY LOAD THE GUN AND THEY SHOOT DOWN TWO JAPANESE FIGHTERS.
AFTERWARDS, HE RECEIVES THE NAVY CROSS, THE SECOND HIGHEST
DECORATION OF OUR NATION.
AND THE U.S. NAVY PUNCHLINE ALERT HERE, THE U.S. NAVY 18
MONTHS AGO ANNOUNCED OUR NEXT NUCLEAR AIRCRAFT CARRIER WILL BE
NAMED THE USS DORY MILLER, FIRST ONE NAMEDDA AFTER AN ENLISTED
MAN.
>> Stephen: WOW, THAT'S A GREAT STORY.
ADMIRAL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, STEPHEN.
>> Stephen: THE BOOK, "TO RISK IT ALL," IS AVAILABLE NOW.
ADMIRAL JAMES STAVRIDIS, EVERYBODY.
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.