over the past 24 hours editorials appeared in both the new york times and
also the Guardians is gonna on
international not just supporting what Edward stone has done but actually
calling for some form of clemency
for him allowing him to come back to the United States and not face any sort
trial for the whistle-blowing that he did
now I it's not just that both the New York Times and The Guardian have spoken
out in support and also the things they said are actually quite interesting
and I think quite compelling and so we give you our little teaser I guess I've
some other things the first the New York Times at considering the enormous value
the information he has revealed any abuses he has exposed
mister snowden deserves better than a life permanent exile
fear and flight he may have committed a crime to do so but he has done his
country a great service
if I'm the United States to offer mister snowed in a plea bargain or some form of
clemency that would allow him to return home
face at least substantially reduced punishment in light of his role as a
whistleblower
and have the hope of a life advocating for greater privacy
and far stronger oversight of the runaway intelligence community
now it might be that this is just a little blip in the ongoing stocks
%uh story other words known but it also could be that this could signal a change
in how people perceive what the government should do in regard adverts
now and do you think that that's
likely goddess I don't know this is gonna have any type of impact whatsoever
it's kind of nice to have the mainstream media on board with something that we've
been arguing in independent media
since the very beginning at this entire case right but I do think that you know
the new york times making this comment or making is that it or writing this
editorial
does speak volumes I don't know if it's gonna translate into anything
significant
I don't know if changing public opinion about this really matters
I mean I think public opinion has been shifting
kind of shifting in the way of support a bad words known for quite some time
surprisingly
I read a recent poll that we talked about on on the show that I do every day
about um millennial attitudes towards all sorts of different topics
and there wasn't even split between individuals who think in in the
millennial kinda age bracket between individuals who think that Edwards known
is a hero and a traitor which to me is insane I would think that the younger
generation
adding more supported apps known thing him more as a hero so
not yet maybe there'll you will see something about shift in the public
consciousness but is that really can affect any sort of governmental action
probably not doesn't seem like the government really cares too much what
the public thinks about anything even with the leaks
I mean little think about what happened with occupying Wall Street right
that had very little impact in government I mean aidid
change the discourse in the country a little bit people are talking about
issues that we weren't talking up before
but to the Obama administration change anything was there more regulation
our banking system or financial sector absolutely not so I think you make a
good point there Carroll out public's
opinion not really matter in but if it wasn't for Occupy Wall Street we would
still have banks are too big to fail
yeah writing about women living in our election that we got it would probably
happen again they would probably fail again if they were too big to pay here's
the problem see i which noting though broke the law
you know in the idea that some 29-year-old in Hawaii can just decided
it is
that he can expose crimes inside the government I think you should go through
a couple have corrupted committee's first and then maybe some senators and
congressmen that are in the pocket have the military industrial complex
and then maybe they could not fix it yeah yet we have we have a broken system
you should use that persisted yeah I'm but let me speak for the other side the
side that things that this might actually mean something so
we understand that we would not be talking about these abuses obviously if
he had not revealed this if Glenn Greenwald not
and had the information to give to us but also let's not let's not forget the
two federal judges have now said that the NSA has violated her constitutional
rights one
federal judge also saying that they didn't yet but at least we got the
majority so far
also Obama did %uh create that panel the panels come back with the 46 that
different recommendations the 300-page report
that he is reportedly considering we certainly wouldn't have had that both
if Snowden had not revealed what he did but also I mean the Obama administration
spent
maybe six seven months watching to see how the public would react in a
I personally feel like the public has not been as outrageous they should be
from what we found out
but obviously there was another outrage that Obama felt the need to put together
this panel and
to consider at least some limited reforms let me that something is
happening
right but do you think that the public is sitting back there reading this
editorial on there like you know what
this editorial by the New York Times is gonna change my political activity
I'm gonna stop being apathetic and I'm gonna take to the streets in protest
with the NSA's doing
do anything but not surprised at the new york times even publish this I mean it
seems like it's in the wheel has a with the editorial board has kinda maybe they
have overtly said it
but have hinted to all the way along especially the Guardian I mean yeah this
is two pieces right
here comes the guarding the gardens in supporting known as actions from the
very beginning so I'm kinda not surprised that
this is the media opinion I'm glad they're being a bird about it now like
you said
the kind of mainstream media's finally stepping up to the plate but I think
that this has been
the majority opinion in the media the entire time II don't file the New York
Times is
you ever sense they lied to us about weapons of mass destruction on the front
page would take routinely
I stopped looking to them for news I'm so I don't really know how they
but I did not know that they distance themselves from Juliana sonji and from
Chelsea Manning yes which we were working together and then they tried to
throw them under the bus
and now here they are I we know what turns out that stuff is pretty good
so I don't build to Bill Keller from the New York Times
are all no I have no use for that guy yeah
guys is that he's another one of those centrist right you take grow up
and let the government spy on you as my pretty much how he feels about both
things
yes so an unfortunate that the common opinion yes Waterbury comin
those same things like I was listening to that show left right and centre
and Matt Miller with his defensive the government like I just assume they're
already doing all these things also that makes it okay
yeah okay like it was nineteen fifty I just assume they weren't letting black
will vote so I only okay
going on yet that a squirrel Jimmy if only Matt Miller had a nationally
syndicated program to discuss these abuses but he assume they're taking
place
if only he had that but I but I do think I think that this could
could influence to different groups and the first group is the at the average
people I don't think that they're gonna take to the streets
and protest that might be limited to some sort of move and our petition but
the reason I think I could influence them as
as you said Millennials are right now somewhat split between thinking is a
hero or trader and i think that the reason for that
is that when it comes to Pacific lead edwards known I think that for
Millennials at a very low information
a valuation other getting completely agree killer good job and so the New
York Times saying something like this provides a big new piece of information
for them to integrate into that evaluation I still don't think it's
going to be that affect I'm glad the New York Times is taken that stance but I
don't know if it's going to translate into anything
but I do want to make a point about how you know the mainstream media and the
establishment press decided on the narrative when it comes to these an
essay leagues and what I mean by that is
instead of talking about the constitutionality in the leaks we're
having a ridiculous conversation about whether or not
Edwards noted is a hero or a traitor and we have been completely distracted by
that nonsensical argument
so as long as we have that issue with the establishment press and that issue
will continue
I don't think we're ever going to have a real conversation about because it is
not
the only thing that we can really rely on at this point and I'm dubious about
this
is that this case with the ACLU and the NSA
will eventually go to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court will rule in the
right way
I don't even know if that's going to happen but that majority opinion like
you said is only
I mean further galvanize by this kind of bed really again it's about what's going
to happen it snowed in what could happen is known it's not about what's gonna
happen to the american people
it's not about are we gonna the any legislative affect the we're going to be
any changes to
the way that the NSA is operating at all about are we gonna
make sure the snow to get clemency but don't do you think the bigger question
here john is is snowed in
is the a patriot or Z trader I think that's the question I
look I think to to answer that I think that is an interesting question because
he is the a representative up the potential for future whistleblowers I
think yeah
and how we evaluate Edwards though in today I think
could have some impact on how we evaluate future whistleblowers and
that's why I think it's so important to set a precedent by getting Obama
to given clemency our government is interested in president I think our
government I even think our judiciary
at all as the play is not interested in president they're interested in making
decisions based on the circumstance whatever's going to have the best
political power at that time
think I I don't think that that's really going to affect anything but that is
like the most cynical
and depressed opinion probably on the span of other one other thing I wanna
talk about though is I saw a tweet from David throat and he was saying that he
thinks that what effect that these dual editorial could have his
it could provide sorta ideological our guests
institutional respect cover for more mainstream reporters
to say the sorts of things presuming that some people in mainstream media on
MSNBC perhaps feel this way about Edward stone but feel like they don't want to
be the first person to come out
and say he's a patriot you know it's the just the common wisdom I guess in DC
that he is a PA
that he's a traitor or the very least he should have gone through the system
because they're used to propping up the system
but perhaps this could lead to don't most elite most a correspondent on MSNBC
Rd say things like that
well really not that I've seen at least 10 hope from what I've seen know that
like Melissa harris-perry for instance the she was a big
really doubt come on it which noting come back and face the music you need to
come back and face that corrupt
system you just Expo with and she did like that and that you should expect to
protect you
know when she was angry at him for fleeing and soul
so that she did like a 12 minute rant on it so it's kind of a pet peeve
appointing a bad as that that you know the Chris Matthews like these are people
who are in support of snow taking their their main
that's the part that right there Rachel Maddow is I don't know about Chris
Chris Matthews I would be surprised I P he publicly both sides yeah
yes sir Phillip Hughes a dart board to figure out where to come down on
different things but I love playing with Chris Matthews does do is he does think
what is the majority of my audience one here and then I'll tell them that and
he's almost admitted that
because I'm always conscious level i'm talking to he said and what the fuck
does that mean
that's exactly what that means yeah he wanted rating yeah
I'm always cut to the book I don't let me let who's watching me influence the
way I deliver the news that is
and that the machine BS unfortunately if he doesn't do that
he's not gonna be in business yeah i mean that that he would be like so that
O'Brien
do a podcast somewhere yep that's right for you: rate is very low enough for you
insult Sarah Palin one time then you can
or something like that