Hello everyone! I am interviewing
Karandeep Singh Grover, who became CEO of
a software development company called
AtliQ technologies, at a very young
age of 24. The interesting thing is that,
he is not one of the co-founders.
I am actually one of the co-founder and
investor in this company. The name of the
company is AtliQ technologies, which is
a software
and mobile app development company, as
well as data analytics solution company.
This company has more than 80 people and
in today's talk, we are going to discuss
Karan's entire journey: how he joined as
a software engineering intern and
within 4 years of
time duration, he quickly
grew in his career and became a CEO.
Towards the end of this conversation, he
is going to discuss some of the tips
that you all can use to rapidly rise in
your career. So please make sure you
watch till the end, and let's begin the
conversation.
Karan, welcome to the show. Thank you! I'm really
glad to be interviewing you, in this
beautiful premises of AtliQ. So let's
start with the first question: what is
your role at AtliQ technologies, and
what are your
responsibilities that you're playing
here? I'll start with adding like how
what exactly AtliQ has. So AtliQ has
3 SPOs. To start with software
engineering. Second is digital marketing,
and third is data department.
Now data department is something we are
trying to diversify into, right now
So my role as the CEO is, overseeing all
three departments.
Making sure we are not having any gaps.
If there are any gaps, identifying them
at the right time and right place.
Making sure those things don't occur
again. I'm more seeing the execution of
all departments. I'm not involved in
day-to-day processes in like most of the
time. But I make sure that everything
that's happening is at the correct level,
and we are making the right revenues.
Another than this, I am also playing a
dual role. The second role that I am
playing is head of data,
in which I am trying to establish a
department. We are going to have data
analysts, scientists, data engineers and
diversifying into this segment.
You joined AtliQ as a software
engineering intern, four years back.
Within four years you became CEO. At that
time, AtliQ had only 7 employees. What
kind of career plans did you have at
that point?
So when I started back in 2018 with AtliQ,
I always wanted to experiment with
entrepreneurship. I did my first
internship in 2018, second one again like
during the winter of it.
At that time, I was also preparing for
masters.
But in a way, I always wanted to go
towards the entrepreneurship path. When I
was in mid of my
internship, I realized that this is
something that I would be more
interested in,
and I was in a dilemma, like should I be
continuing with AtliQ or should I be
going for a master's? I chose AtliQ, I
guess I'm glad I did it. I always wanted
to go towards entrepreneurship. But I
never thought I would be doing that
within AtliQ itself.
Now when you joined AtliQ, it was a
small company, 7 people.
You are from same university, where I
studied- DDU And there were some big tech
companies coming in for campus
interviews. So why did you choose to work
for small companies and not join big
firms?
One of the first reasons that I can say
is,
I don't see like I'll be
in much
involved state benefit when it's it's a
MNC. But when it's a startup, I can see
that if they are safe, you already
mentioned there were 7-8 people
right? I can see my impact. I was
literally like 12.5 percent of the
workforce at that time.
So looking at that,
I chose AtliQ, since I was a big con
like I can contribute being in that
terms. I see.
That's good! Uh so now let's talk about
your journey from
intern to an engineering manager because
you became engineering manager, the
company started growing rapidly. So what
was your journey and what things did you
do special,
which helped you become engineering
manager in a very short time duration?
So
AtliQ, if I talk about the overall
length, it took me around two
one and a half internship, in fact to
become an engineering manager. During
this second strength of my internship, I
was actually
start like I started managing one
project which was a wireless retail
project. So the thing that was happening
was, our head of department was busy with
multiple projects. He wasn't having like
much time to look after that project.
There was a gap that I saw, that I can go
ahead, I can contribute on this project.
And what I did I asked him like if I can
take a lead. He checked like if I was
able to do that he was initially
shadowing with me. Then he started taking
up client calls. I started
converting requirements into
actual code. Like not only that but into
jira stories and everything. So that's
where I begin. I saw a gap, I tried to
improvise on it, whatever I can do. Not
only that, I was also being involved
in certain other situations as well. Like
there was a campus hiring back in DDU
only. So I made sure that I was active
part of it. Since it was a summer
internship, the place where I came from, I
took extra care that it went fine, it
went well.
So those were a few incidents that led
me to becoming an engineering manager. So
just to summarize, you took a lot of
ownership basically, and exactly you did
not do the things that
were assigned to you, which was
programming work, but you went above and
beyond that as well, correct? Exactly. I
would say,
I was only doing 70% or say
80% of coding, by the time
like mid of my second internship. Okay.
That's really good and in fact
inspirational for many fresh hires who
join company, or with the mindset that
you know they have to be doing only
coding, and there will be seniors or
mentors in the company, and they need to
be guiding them. But in your case, you
took the full ownership it's called like
an extreme ownership principle, and you
work with the spirit of, uh as if you are
an owner of the company, correct? Correct. Okay so
let's move to the second question which
is,
from engineering manager, you become
CEO. Like within, in less than four years,
you become CEO, you are very young 24
year of age.
I see that this doesn't happen with many
people.
I still remember,
because I'm also involved with AtliQ
technologies. I'm an investor and I'm
mentoring. This is the company that my
brother started,
uh and I still remember talking with you
back in your internship days,
and there were a couple of other interns
who were also hired in the same company.
But you did something different than
other people. So
what kind of advice would you give or
just mention,
what are the things that you did
differently compared to your peers,
which help you grow so rapidly in your
career?
One of the first points that I would
like to highlight is, there the other
interns that were there with me, they
were in a way just complaining. See they
see a gap like it's obviously it's a
startup right? They see a gap, they say
that "Oh, this is a gap. This is something
that we are stuck at!" I wasn't like that.
I know I s I can see a gap very well. I I
was from the same
university, and I was like also doing the
same stuff that they did. But I didn't
only think that, this is a gap. I always
thought how can I solve this gap, how can
I contribute to make sure that this gap
is resolved? So they were married to a
problem. But you decided to marry with a
solution. Exactly.
Very good! All right, so uh
let's talk about your opinion on joining
a startup versus a big company. Of course,
I think based on your background, you'll
be biased to joining a startup. But but
please explain us your thought process
on,
if there is a flash hire a person
joining just starting the career, either
a software engineer, or data scientist, or
a data analyst, uh what advice would you
give in terms of joining a startup
versus a big company?
As you mentioned, I'm definitely a lot
biased in like picking a startup. That's
of course like, given my background.
I would still advise anyone any
candidate that's starting off to go for
a startup, number one reason being you
get to be a multiple hats.
If you are in say an MNC, the typical
thing is you'll be continuing to work on
one given project the entire time.
You might not even switch the project
for a couple of months, or you would
still be sitting in one desk, in one
corner. You'd be simply doing coding,
coding and coding, the entire day. There
won't be anything. There would be gaps.
But uh if you give a solution, or say if
you suggest something, what is the scope
of that actually happening.
No, right? So that is why I feel that
startup is the right environment for
young minds, since they can adapt
themselves to multiple things. On the
other hand, I see that MNCs can be
beneficial as well. Like you get to learn
certain technical skills, certain
corporate skills. But on the same side, I
would say being in a startup, you can be
more creative. Got it! And I guess if you
have your own plan of starting your own
company right, or becoming a partner and
if you have entrepreneurship dreams, I
think startup gives more opportunities
than the big companies. Exactly! Like it
nurtures you like how you can grow. Like
if I talk about myself,
since I was handling recruitment, when I
was an intern I was handing projects, I
was handling clients. It came naturally
to me. Like when I was, I I guess I was 20
or 21 back then. So if you're doing that
thing at 20 year age,
that's only possible at a startup. An
MNC won't give you that shot. Got it. So
if you join a big company, maybe you
work as a software engineer for
few years. Then it takes maybe it takes
maybe five years to become an even an
engineering manager. Then department head
it might take you 10-15 years right? But
in the case of startup,
your your example shows, you can become
CEO
in in 4 years. Of course the startup
company and the management needs need to
have the right mindset, and the correct
culture.
So yeah. Exactly, that's needed. And when
you are in an MNC, you just are a rat
in a rat race. Like there are thousands
of employees other than you right? If not
thousand, at least hundreds. What's your
contribution? Who's going to see that? Got
it! That's a very good point!
Um so now,
see when you grow
as a manager, it's not just about coding
and technical skills. There are soft
skills at play. So
can you explain the difference between
the soft skills and technical skills, in
terms of your career growth because I
see many uh,
young you know engineers or data
scientists they join any company. They
are focusing their 90 or 95%
focus is only on technology, you know.
They want to learn Python, C++
But they focus less on soft skills such
as presentation skills, negotiation, ego
management, etc. So what are your thoughts
on
on these two category of skills.
I'll just start with one statement:
Technology can change.
You can change the programming language,
and you can still grow right? But soft
skills are going to be there, no matter
what career path you choose. I can
be a software engineer, I can be a
product owner, I can be a product manager,
a CEO, a head of department, I can be
anything.
I'm always going to need soft skills.
When it comes to technical skills, or
programming language, or frameworks, it's
going to change depending upon time,
depending upon what role I'm playing.
I see.
So,
it's like Albert Einstein equation, that
politics are for the moment, an equation
is for eternity. So when it comes to like
communication, people management,
ego management right, negotiation, these
skills are eternal.
I remember I started with C++, Java.
Then started working in Python,
Javascript, tomorrow it will be some
other language, uh but the soft skills uh
remain the same. And one trend I'm
noticing Karan is
nowadays,
languages are becoming like higher level.
So C++
more lower level language, where you have
to do a lot of memory management, etc.
Whereas in Python and Javascript, lot of
things are taken care of, out of the box
by the language itself. And now you're
seeing a trend of
low code or no code
tools where
you can just drag and drop and do coding.
So maybe in the future, there will be
time where
either neural network will write code
for you or
a business manager can do drag and drop,
and they can build an application. Do
do you agree with that point? Yes in a
way, I do. Like if you look at the academia
right,
many of the physicists, many of the
non-programming people are also taking a
programming. Why is that?
Because Python has made it so very easy,
that you can easily pick it up. You can
start coding and you can like make
whatever you want to do. Even I have a
few clients I've discussed with, who have
started off with like no good
programming languages, or say no code
tools to get their software done. So it's
definitely picking up. It won't be a case
that uh it's gonna happen in all the
software, or say all the tools. But yeah
a portion of the industry would
definitely be like going into that area.
Very cool! Uh so now let's move on to the
most important
question of this entire interview which
is,
if
a person is joining their first job or
if they're early in their career, either
as a software engineer, data scientist,
what are 3 tips that you would give
to that person? 3 tips or however
many tips you want to share, uh so that
they can grow as rapidly as you grew in
your career. As we discussed earlier,
don't marry a problem,
always look out for a solution. Don't
just keep complaining and complaining.
Find out how you can contribute.
It's not about the problem right? Every
place you go is going to have problems.
Even MNCs have some problems.
Startups have it more, they have it to
say 10x scale. But just focus on how you
can solve it. Complaining is never going
to
help in any way, not to the company not
to you.
That's when second thing would be, what
I've seen like if I talk about software
engineers, they get too much attached to
what they're working on.
Say if a thing can be done in Python
right now,
what if there is another programming
language that's coming in which can
solve it even better? Like happened with
other languages. Like people were using C++
as well right, in the past. Now
everyone is switching to Python for the
similar task.
So don't be attached to a particular
framework or even a programming language.
That would be the second. Third one would
be focus extremely well on your
communication skills, presentation skills
negotiation, and all such soft skills.
Even I would say business skills, like
business side of things. Understanding
how businesses work
how a particular app or software is
going to help the end client, and don't
focus on your client. But focus on their
clients because ultimately the software
is not going to be used by the client,
but by their clients or say by their
team. So it's about developing a mindset
that ultimately business is what is
needed. Like business is going to use the
software,
and
soft skills and communication is
important.
Very good! So just to summarize your
conversation,
work in a company as if you are the
owner of the company. Correct. Uh and
I I am a witness of
you know that
you following that principle because I
still remember, a few years back
one client reached out to me on LinkedIn.
Uh, he was my YouTube uh channel follower
actually,
and he said can you build this software?
And I'm like, no I'm working for you know
my company Bloomberg at that time,
and uh
I said that but I'm an investor in this
company AtliQ,
and I connected
that person with you.
And he started with a very small project
and now he gives a lot of work on a
recurrent basis to this company. He's in
fact one of the
major channel in terms of revenues for
this company,
and I still remember
that person
you know after I connected YouTube, that
person never came back to me with a
complaint right? So I was in peace of my
mind that whatever referral I give, it is
correct and you took care of the whole
thing. Right from
the
relationship management with client,
execution, on-time delivery,
uh budgeting, everything. That would be
the tip that you need to follow if you
are starting
early, if you are early in your career. Uh
one complaint that I am hearing Karan
from some folks whom I have given same
advice that, work in a company as if it
is your own company, they always say that
see I work in that company as if it's my
own company. But company's management is
not recognizing my contribution. So
what kind of answer you would give to
that kind of question? It's it's all
about synergy, I would say.
You have to also see what vision the
founders are having or say,
the core management, like how exactly
they are operating. I was I would say, I
was lucky in this case. I was very well
aligned with the founders. I was very
well aligned with the uh core team.
Plus the synergy was.
So it wasn't just one way right, like I
was just contributing. They were
recognizing it and they were giving it
back to me as well. Like I was basically
like having a sense of home in there
right? Now that's not the case with all
startup founders right? But you still get
to wear multiple hats and solve problems.
So my suggestion in this would be, if you
feel that you are in a startup where
there is no synergy, you can't like
relate to the vision of the company,
relate to the mission of the company, you
can simply quit. There's no prob like no
point in just complaining that your
contribution is not being recognized
right? Find another one. It's easy if you
have the skills, if you can like really
make it, then you would find another one
and maybe you will find the synergy. Got
it, and
the advice that I give to that that kind
of person is
let's say you work in one company for
six months or a one year and your vision
is not aligned with management vision,
and they are not recognizing your
contribution,
you're still going to work and
complaining. Complaining is very bad. So
for how however many days you work in
that company, still work with an
entrepreneur mindset. People suffer from
employee syndrome. They just go to coffee,
keep on complaining. It's gonna just harm
you. If you still work with an
entrepreneur mindset, you are
you know you will carry those habits
with you when you join another company,
and the the practice and the skills that
you have practiced there,
are going to be extremely useful
in your second company. And you will be
able to make a lot of progress
as well as,
if you want to start your own company at
some point, now you have that personality
correct? It's not like you worked in
5 different companies you always
complain,
and then you know after 10 years let's
say you save some money and start your
own business okay, you can start your own
business but you're still
carrying your bad habits, which is
complaining not working with an
entrepreneur mindset. And old habits die
hard right? Yes! So if you have been like,
if you're not convincing yourself that
you are acting as an entrepreneur from
the very beginning, once you are 10 years as
an employee, even your 11th year like
even your first year as a founder might
still have that effect. Like you'll still
be in that mindset and it's really hard
to change.
Very good! So that was really
inspirational conversation Karan!
Congratulations on your success, and
thank you very much for spending time.
Thank you!
(Music)