I am so excited for the interview
that we're about to bring you all.
It's with someone I've literally been trying to interview
for over a year.
Her name's Katharine Wilkinson
and she was the senior writer on the book "Drawdown,"
which I think is one of the most important books
that's been written about the climate crisis.
And when I read this, it gave me so much hope.
Katharine's in the studio right now
and I'm so ready for this interview.
Let's do this.
(upbeat music)
Thank you so much for sitting down
and agreeing to do this interview because I know that
you are a writer, researcher, TED Talk speaker,
so I'm just so honored
and I think I've been wanting to do this for over a year,
ever since I read this book.
So, thank you.
- I'm so excited.
- I absolutely loved reading this book
because it was the first time
that I read about the climate crisis and I felt hope.
So will you give the audience,
just the 101 on what is "Drawdown,"
and what they would find inside of it when they read it?
- Absolutely.
So the word drawdown means the point in time
when greenhouse gases in the atmosphere stop rising
and begin to decline.
And that is a really critical turning point
for life on Earth
because it's that rising concentration of gases
that's trapping heat and causing the climate to change
and causing the climate crisis.
Our work at Project Drawdown is to help humanity
have a resource for solutions.
- Hold up.
Before we go any further with Katharine,
I wanna give you all an inside peek
into the actual "Drawdown" book
so you'll get what we're talking about.
Inside Drawdown, you'll find 100 solutions
for addressing the climate crisis.
From technology as obvious as wind turbines
and rooftop solar,
to more commonsense approaches
like building walkable cities
and investing in bike infrastructure.
Every solution is presented with the amount of CO2 saved,
the amount it would cost,
and the amount of money it would eventually save.
And "Drawdown" really looks at every aspect of our society
from transport, buildings, food and energy,
offering all of us a roadmap for solving the climate crisis.
So were you able to source those solutions?
Are they already things that are happening
around the planet?
Not some day, maybe if Elon Musk figures it out, right?
- So one of the things that really surprised me
when I was reading the book,
was that women and girls was actually a really big solution.
Can you explain why that is?
- Yeah.
When we think about the intersection of gender and climate,
it's complicated, but there are kind of three big areas.
One, the impacts of climate change
hit women and girls first and worst,
particularly if they're contending with poverty.
It's because it makes
existing vulnerabilities more challenging.
Second, gender equality is a climate solution.
And that's what we highlight in "Drawdown."
So, access to education,
access to high quality voluntary reproductive health care.
When girls and women are
able to make choices about their lives,
it turns out that there's positive ripple effects
for the climate.
And then the third area is really around leadership.
The climate crisis is also a leadership crisis.
And what we're seeing in this moment
is girls and women and non-binary leaders
step in and really lead differently on climate change.
Lead with a sense of building community,
with a sense of emotional intelligence and collaboration
and a real commitment to justice.
- And that's a reason just thinking about, like,
a Greta who just emerged as a climate leader.
We're kind of seeing that come to pass in 2018, 2019,
so it is really cool that you're calling for that
and we're kind of living it in the present moment,
which is amazing.
- It's incredible to see just the rising up of youth
who are so courageous, they have so much imagination,
and they're so insistent
that we simply do what science tells us we have to do.
(upbeat music)
- Are you personally an optimist?
I mean, you're working with these data every day.
I think a lot of us wanna put our heads in the sand
and go, "It's gonna be fine."
But you're dealing with it every day.
I would love to know, are you still feeling good
or are you scared?
What should we do?
What should we feel? - Yeah, yeah.
So, I really, for me,
If we didn't know what to do,
if we didn't have the tools in our toolbox,
if we didn't have the solutions,
that is serious cause for despair.
And what our work actually shows
is that if we just used the solutions that we already have,
we could reach the point of drawdown.
And we could get there before the middle of the century.
- The day we hit drawdown, I'm just gonna give you
a big high five.
- We're gonna have a big party.
- Well, when I read that, when, like,
in the opening of the book, they say, like,
drawdown's the moment, like you said,
where the CO2 or the [greenhouse gases] go down, and I'm like,
"I never even thought that that would be allowed."
Like, I just was like it was always like mitigating risk,
like, let's start defending ourselves against climate change
and what this does and why I love it
and why I'm so excited to talk to you
is, like, it completely flips it on its head.
And I think in one of the opening sentences
it says, like, this is an opportunity
for us to change our way of life,
to live in a more, in alignment with our planet.
And this really outlines that.
I think we'll all be better off
because it's not like before climate change
we were actually happy with all our systems that we had.
Climate change has just highlighted those problems for us.
- Totally.
Like, as you were saying earlier, we have an opportunity
to build a better world in the process
of addressing emissions.
And I think that, for me, is what's really exciting
that we can solve for well-being and equity
at the same time that we're bringing human society
back into balance with the living systems of planet Earth.
- Right.
Will you talk about the equity and justice aspect
because I think that's a huge part
of the climate conversation that people kinda skip over.
Why is that so important?
- It is really critical that we move solutions forward
in a way that actually heals systemic injustices
rather than deepening them.
I think it's important
because it's simply the right thing to do.
But I also think it's important
because it's the politically effective thing to do.
If you're talking about trying to really build
a groundswell of, you know, commitment
and excitement about this,
probably just talking about greenhouse gases
is not gonna get it done.
I mean, that's basically what we've been trying.
Hasn't worked.
But actually, when you realize and you think about climate
in this much more systemic and entangled way,
you start to see that, actually,
there are other things that may be top of mind for people
that would bring them to this movement.
I think that's exactly why we're seeing the growth
that we're seeing right now.
- And do you feel like we have to compromise
a lot of the ways that we live now?
Like, consumerism, materialism,
in order to live in alignment with the planet?
Because sometimes that's, like,
the internal, like, feeling that I have.
I'm like, "I want something new."
And then I'm like, "Wait, no, you don't need that."
And, like, I feel like I have a lot of bad habits
that I've acquired through my life
that, if I wanna be better, I should change them.
(laughs)
- Yeah.
I mean, I think this is one thing that's worth noting
is that "Drawdown" is an extensive list,
but it is not a comprehensive list.
So, there are things that are hard to put numbers to,
like reducing consumerism,
that is absolutely a huge climate solution
because everything that we have, right,
has been manufactured.
Materials have been sourced, it's been created,
it's been shipped, there's a lot of impact there.
So actually, it's interesting that I'm wearing this.
One of my commitments this year
has been to try to do no new clothing.
- I love that.
- Yeah, yeah.
So this is a thredUP find.
- That's amazing 'cause that's one of the things
as I've been, you know, learning more about climate
and you're like, "OK, I can start composting,
I can recycle."
And now I'm like, "Wait, I'm buying all this new stuff."
That's kinda where I'm at right now,
which I think everyone's at different phases
of, like, learning and changing
and no one needs to do anything overnight
but I've been having that thought process too.
And one thing we're gonna be thinking about
in the decades ahead
is that we have a huge rising middle class happening
in, like, places like China, India
and in the developing world.
Is there some concerns that
if they adopt our consumption habits,
then we'll kind of lose our chance to fight this?
- Yeah.
I think, you know, the real bummer
is that we've done a great job
of exporting consumerism around the world.
And that is a culture that has taken hold
and is certainly a challenge
when it comes to climate action.
At the same time, I think it is understandable that people
want a better quality of life, right?
Particularly, like, you're in a hot place,
you want air conditioning, you want refrigeration.
Like, this is all really reasonable human stuff.
And so, I think the really critical thing
is to try to move solutions forward
that can address some of those needs,
without having so much of an impact on the planet.
Things like distributed solar and micro grids
instead of pushing a fossil fuel grid.
- Cool.
It's almost like leapfrogging technology.
And we've seen that with a lot of developing countries.
They have cellphones.
They never had wired phones.
They just went right to the cellphones.
It's like go right to the solar, like,
don't pick up the coal.
- Yeah.
- What I do love about this, again,
is that you're showing us
it doesn't have to just be doom and gloom
and, like, this dystopian future.
We can have our cake and eat it, too, in a lot of ways,
but with a little bit of a value change.
- Yeah.
I mean, I think, you know,
sometimes climate action can feel like
this sort of, like, draconian assignment, right?
But actually if you think about the purpose of human beings,
like, I really believe that our mission
as humanity in this moment,
is to build a bridge to a future that is climate safe
and livable for future generations.
That's like the most meaningful work
we could possibly do in our lives,
and I think that's actually incredibly exciting
and if I give a few things up along the way, that's OK.
I also think, when you give some things up,
you make space for other things.
- For sure.
I love this.
And I think that a lot of times
the mainstream, you know, conversation around this
is really missing that point
and it's getting bogged down in politics
and all of these things, but I think that we're seeing
that with the younger generation
they're kind of like cutting through the BS
and they're like, "I think we need to save the planet."
- Yeah.
And what I love is that I think
they're really calling for all the folks
that are kind of just on the sidelines, right?
The bystanders to like step into the work,
step in and, like, help us do what science tells us
is necessary, become solutionaries.
I love that.
That was actually the perfect lead up to my next question,
was, like, well, how do you get people to step in?
Like, the series that I host is called One Small Step.
It's all about that.
Do you have one step, a mindset,
anything that people can take away from this?
- Yeah.
So, obviously I would suggest
that people check out the book.
Or check out, there's a ton of information
on our website. - Rent it from your library.
- Get it from the library.
Drawdown.org also has a lot of content.
One of the really big things is just to talk about this.
So, even though we know how critical the climate crisis is,
and how much we desperately need really bold action,
a lot of people aren't hearing about climate day to day.
They're not talking about it with their friends or family.
They're not talking about it in their workplaces,
so helping to break the silence is really good.
A lot of times people will go, "Oh, what can I do?"
And we kind of give them
sort of lame lists sometimes, right?
But my feeling is that we need everyone's super powers
in this movement. - Yeah, love that.
- So, are you an incredible journalist?
Great.
We need that on climate, right?
Are you an artist?
Perfect, we need that.
We need teachers, we need lawyers.
Everyone has something to bring to this.
Think about what you wanna do at home in your personal life.
Think about what you can do professionally.
And think about what you wanna do in the public square.
Maybe next time there's a climate strike you wanna join it.
- Going on the list because we know we have 100 in here,
is there one, like, specific thing, like,
you mentioned food waste, like,
that's one thing that I've also been thinking about a lot.
I'm like, "Wait a minute, I have something in my fridge,
I don't need to go buy something."
It's crazy to me
that I wasn't making that connection before.
So, something like food waste, is there anything else
that you think are low-hanging fruit
that we could all adopt?
- I'm personally a vegetarian
and that has been a really important way for me
to kind of get grounded in my values every time I eat.
But it doesn't have to be becoming vegetarian, right?
It can be opting for one of these
new, fancy nonmeat burgers instead of that burger
that you were thinking about, right?
It can be, "Well, maybe I'll do sort of
plant-based food breakfast and lunch
and then I'll eat what I would normally eat for dinner.
That's one that's, like, you know,
you can do that really quite easily and you can do it today.
- I cannot recommend this book enough.
I stan you guys on my Instagram all the time.
(laughs)
So, Katharine thank you so much for coming in.
I really enjoyed this conversation and I learned so much.
So, everyone check this out.
And thank you.
- It's my pleasure.
- I hope you found that conversation with Katharine
as informative and as inspiring as I did.
For one, today I'm wearing a shirt
that I bought at a secondhand store.
And I packed a plant-based lunch,
so Katharine's getting through to me.
If you guys wanna learn more and really go in-depth
on the "Drawdown" solutions,
you can head to drawdown.org
where all of them are listed on their website
with even more information.
If you enjoyed this, please share it, like it,
subscribe to our YouTube channel.
And we'll see you all next time.
Bye.
(eating)
Saving the planet, one meal at a time.
(laughs)