WANT TO LIVE AND WORK IN THIS
COUNTRY.
MARIA: YOU WERE THE CEO OF
MICROSOFT FOR A LONG TIME.
THE COMPANY ANNOUNCING IT WILL
SELL A.I. PRODUCTS TO CHINA.
AND I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON
THE OPPORTUNITY IN CHINA AND
ALSO THE OPPORTUNITY AROUND
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, A.I.
I'M JUST BACK FROM SAN
FRANCISCO.
I SAT DOWN WITH THE CO-FOUND I
OF ORACLE, LARRY ELLISON ABOUT
TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES WORKING
WITH THE GOVERNMENT.
HERE'S WHAT HE SAID ABOUT GOOGLE
AND CHINA.
LISTEN TO THIS.
>> I THINK U.S. TECH COMPANIES
WHO SAY WE WILL NOT SUPPORT THE
U.S. MILITARY, YOU KNOW, WE WILL
NOT WORK ON ANY TECHNOLOGY THAT
HELPS OUR MILITARY BUT YET GOES
INTO CHINA AND FACILITATES THE
CHINESE GOVERNMENT SURVEILLING
THEIR PEOPLE IS PRETTY SHOCKING.
I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT
U.S. TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES
SUPPORT OUR COUNTRY, OUR
GOVERNMENT.
WE ARE A DEMOCRACY.
IF WE DON'T LIKE OUR LEADERS, WE
CAN THROW THEM OUT.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE LEADERS IN
CHINA, YOU CAN FILL IN THE
BLANK.
MARIA: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT
THAT, STEVE?
>> I THINK IT STARTS WITH THE
PREMISE THAT I MIGHT NOT AGREE
WITH.
AT LEAST SOFTWARE INTELLECTUAL
PROPERTY IN CHINA IS STOLEN
ANYWAY.
SO THE NOTION THAT A POLICY
DECISION BY A U.S. COMPANY IS
GOING TO DRAMATICALLY IMPACT
THAT IS INTERESTING.
MOST OF MICROSOFT SOFTWARE WHEN
I LEFT, A FEW YEARS AGO NOW, WAS
STOLEN.
AND YOU SAY OKAY, IS IT POSSIBLE
TO STEAL THE SOFTWARE WITHOUT
SELLING IT IN CHINA?
THE ANSWER IS YES, IT IS.
SO I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE
SOME IMPORTANT PRINCIPLES IN
WHAT LARRY SAYS.
I DON'T DENY THAT.
AND YET THE SPECIFIC ISSUE IS
VERY HARD TO CONTROL.
MARIA: YOU MAKE SUCH AN
IMPORTANT POINT.
I THINK I HEARD A STAT, CORRECT
ME IF THIS IS WRONG, THAT 90% OF
COMPANIES IN CHINA USE THE
MICROSOFT OPERATING SYSTEM BUT
LIKE 1% PAY.
>> CERTAINLY AS I A
>> CERTAINLY AS L A
>> CERTAINLY AS LEFT A YOU FEW
YEARS AGO WAS RIGHT.
MARIA: 90% OF COMPANIES ARE
USING THE MICROSOFT OPERATING
PLATFORM AND 1% ARE PAYING FOR
IT.
WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO THAT
CHINA KEEPS STEALING EVERYTHING
THIS WAY?
THAT'S PRETTY EXTRAORDINARY.
>> I'M A FREE TRADER BY NATURE.
I WENT TO SCHOOL, ECONOMICS,
IT'S THE BEST THING FOR THE
WORLD.
THIS ONE'S A TRICKY ISSUE
BECAUSE IT'S ABSOLUTELY CLEAR
THAT THE RULES DON'T APPLY IN
CHINA AND THE U.S. GOVERNMENT
NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING, WHETHER
TARIFFS ARE RIGHT OR WRONG, I'M
SILENT ON THAT POINT.
BUT WITHOUT ANY PRESSURE FROM
THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT $10 BILLION PLUS,
FOR EXAMPLE, IN MICROSOFT THAT
WOULD GO INTO PROFIT.
AS A SHAREHOLDER THAT'S THE
EASIEST THING FOR ME TO NOW SEE
AS AN OUTSIDER.
WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE RISE IN
PROFITS THAT WOULD BE
COMMENSURATE WITH REAL
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY PROTECTION
IN CHINA.
MARIA: WHERE DOES THIS GO,
STEVE?
I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO
CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR.
THEY WON'T ADMIT THEY'RE
STEALING OUR I.P.
YOU WERE THE CEO OF MICROSOFT.
YOU CAN CONFIRM THAT 90% OF
LARGE COMPANIES IN CHINA USE
MICROSOFT AND THEY DON'T PAY FOR
IT.
WHERE IS THIS GOING?
ARE YOU HAPPY THIS
ADMINISTRATION IS PUSHING BACK
ON CHINA?
I KNOW WE'RE NOT SURE IF TARIFFS
IS THE WAY TO DO IT BUT WHAT IS
THE WAY THEN?
>> NOT SURE.
I DON'T WORK AT MICROSOFT
ANYMORE.
HARD TO SEE THE INTERNAL ISSUES.
ALL I CAN SAY IS WITHOUT ANY
PRESSURE, NOTHING'S GOING TO
CHANGE.
NOT CLEAR TARIFFS IS THE RIGHT
WAY TO GO, I'LL BE SILENT ON
THAT.
BUT AT LEAST THIS FREE TRADER'S
MIND YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT
MORE DRACONIAN MEASURES.
MARIA: YOU'VE BEEN WATCHING THE
INDUSTRY, A STUDENT OF
TECHNOLOGY FOR A LONG TIME.
LET ME GET YOUR TAKE ON THIS NEW
FOCUS ON TECH AND THAT IS THE
REGULAR
REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT.
25 YEARS AGO WHEN YOU AND I
FIRST STARTED TALKING, THESE
COMPANIES WEREN'T WHERE THEY ARE
TODAY.
SO GOOGLE, ALPHABET, AMAZON, YOU
KNOW, -- WELL, MICROSOFT AS
WELL.
THEY'VE GOTTEN SO MUCH BIGGER
AND YOU WERE AROUND TO SEE THE
WAY THE E.U. TARGETED MICROSOFT
AT A TIME BECAUSE OF THE LAW OF
LARGE NUMBERS.
IT WAS SO BIG THAT IT WAS -- IT
WAS SO POWERFUL YOU BECAME A
TARGET AT MICROSOFT.
NOW ALPHABET IS THE TARGET,
AMAZON IS THE TARGET.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY
WHAT DO YOU THINK SHEY
WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOY
WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE
DONE?
>> THE NOTION OF SAYING
SOMETHING IS TOO BIG BECAUSE
IT'S BIG, THAT DOESN'T RESONATE
WITH ME.
MARIA: GOOGLE DOES 90% OF ALL
SEARCH IN THE COUNTRY.
>> AND MICROSOFT DID 90% OF ALL
OPERATING SYSTEMS.
MARIA: OKAY.
>> THAT, PER SE, IS HEART TO
COMPLAIN WITH -- HARD TO
COMPLAIN WITH.
IT'S HOW PEOPLE LEVERAGE THAT
POWER.
WILL GOOGLE ONLY FAVOR THEIR OWN
STORE FOR EXAMPLE WHEN IT COMES
TO PUTTING SEARCH RESULTS UP FOR
PRODUCTS.
THAT'S A TARGETABLE OFFENSE.
WILL GOOGLE ONLY BUNDLE ITS
SEARCH WITH ANDROID?
THAT'S AN ISSUE TO BE LOOKED AT.
THE PURE SIZE, I DON'T BELIEVE
THAT SHOULD BE TARGETED.
THEY DID A GOOD JOB.
THEY GAINED MARKET SHARE.
BRAVO.
MARIA: DO YOU THINK WE'LL SEE
MORE REGULATION ON TECH?
>> I DON'T THINK -- WELL,
THERE'S TWO KINDS OF REGULATION.
ON SIZE, THE KIND YOU'VE TALKED
ABOUT, MAYBE, MAYBE NOT.
NOT SURE HOW TO THINK ABOUT
THAT.
ON THE ISSUES OF PRIVACY AND
DATA PROTECTION, YES, I DO THINK
WE'LL SEE MORE REGULATION.
IN THE BEST OF WORLDS, IT'S NOT
JUST SLAM-DOWN.
THE REGULATORS WILL WORK WITH
THE TECH COMPANIES TO FIND THE
RIGHT SOLUTIONS.
A PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT
THROWS A LIGHTNING BOLT AND SAYS