WE’LL WATCH IT CLOSELY.
THANK YOU, AGAIN.
MEANTIME THE OVERALL NATIONAL
SECURITY INTERESTS AT STAKE
HERE, TO THAT WE GO TO KASH
PATEL, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF AT
THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE UNDER
PRESIDENT TRUMP.
VERY GOOD TO HAVE YOU.
JUST HOW BIG OF A THREAT IS
TIKTOK THE WAY YOU SEE IT?
TO HEAR THE CEO TELL IT TODAY
BUT IT SEEMS TO BE FALLING ON
DEAF EARS, THEY GOT HOURS TO TO,
CHINA’S ROLE IS DISTANT, IF
THERE AT ALL.
DO YOU BELIEVE HIM?
>> IT IS GREAT TO BE WITH YOU,
GOOD AFTERNOON.
I DON’T BELIEVE IT FOR A SECOND.
WHAT THE CEO COULD HAVE DONE IF
HE WAS MAKING A TRUTHFUL
STATEMENT TO CONGRESS WAS THE
CCP HAS ABSOLUTELY NO
AFFILIATION TO BYTEDANCE AND
TIKTOK, HAS NO ABILITY TO
COLLECT THE DATA THAT IS MINED
THROUGH THE TIKTOK APPLICATION.
FROM A NATIONAL SECURITY
STANDPOINT WHEN I WAS DEPUTY
DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL
INTELLIGENCE OUR FOCUS WAS ON
THE INTELLIGENCE AND DATA
COLLECTION APPARATUS OF THE CCP,
HOW THEY WERE TUNNELING INTO
AMERICAN HOMES LITERALLY IN
DEVICES.
TIKTOK WE FOUND WAS THEIR
LARGEST METHOD OF DATA GATHERING
FOR ALMOST NO MONEY.
FOR HIM TO GO SAY THAT IS A
FALSE REASSURANCE AND HE CAN’T
SAY THAT THE CCP DOESN’T COLLECT
IT.
BECAUSE WE WENT BACK, IF YOU
WIND THE CLOCK BACK, NEIL, THREE
YEARS OR SO AGO, WHY WE TRIED TO
STOP TIKTOK.
WE TRIED TO BAN THEM.
THERE WAS A SOCIAL AND MEDIA
OUTCRY AGAINST IT.
BUT WE WERE ACTING ON THE
INTELLIGENCE OF THE DAY.
THAT INTELLIGENCE WAS TRUE THEN.
AND IT IS TRUENOW.
NEIL: THE PARENT COMPANY IS
BYTEDANCES RIGHT AND THAT IS
UNDER DIRECT CONTROL OF CHINA.
NOW THEY COULD SEPARATE BUT THAT
WOULDN’T MEAN ANYTHING BECAUSE
CHINA COULD STILL BE LOGGING
INFORMATION ON BROWSING HISTORY,
LOCATION, ALL OF THAT STUFF.
SO HE COULD SAY ALL HE WANTS,
THAT IS A RAMPANT PHENOMENON
ACROSS A LOT OF HIGH-TECH
COMPANIES, SOCIAL MEDIA
CONCERNS.
IT GETS A LITTLE BIT MORE
DANGEROUS WHEN IT IS CHINA.
YOUR THOUGHTS?
>> NO, ABSOLUTELY.
YOU’RE SPOT ON.
YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE A CYBER
INTELLIGENCE EXPERT TO SEE THE
WAY THE CCP HAS INFILTRATED OUR
ECOSYSTEM.
TIKTOK WOULD LITERALLY TO BUILD,
DON’T EVEN LOOK AT IT FROM A
CYBER INFRASTRUCTURE PLATFORM,
THEY WOULD LITERAL HAVE TO BUILD
NEW BRIDGES AND TUNNELS ACROSS
AMERICA TO CARRY THEIR
INFORMATION THAT IS CLOSED OFF
FROM CCP ACCESS POINTS.
THEY DON’T WANT TO SPEND THE
TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO
DO THAT AND IF THEY DID THAT,
THEY WOULD ACTUALLY BE SHUT
DOWN.
THAT IS NOT THE OPTION THAT THE
CEO IS OFFERING TODAY.
HE IS OFFERING THIS FAKE, THIS
HEAD FAKE THAT SAYS, WE’LL ALLOW
A THIRD PARTY TO COME IN AND
MONITOR IT.
THAT’S MEANINGLESS.
THAT DOESN’T MEAN CHINA DOESN’T
ALREADY HAVE BACKDOORS IN PLACE.
THAT IS WHY WE ACTED.
THEY’RE ALREADY THERE.
THEY CAN’T SHUT THEM OUT.
THEY DON’T WANT TO BUILD A NEW
ECOSYSTEM.
NEIL: IT DOES SHOW SOME, A
MATTER OF INFLUENCE WHEN CHINA
ITSELF IS AGHAST AT THE NOTION
OF SPINNING OFF TIKTOK FROM
BYTEDANCE OR ANYONE ELSE.
OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVE SOME
INFLUENCE JUST TO SAY THAT BUT I
DID WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON THE
BREAKDOWN OF BYTEDANCE OWNERSHIP
BECAUSE I SOMETIMES THINK THAT
CAN GIVE YOU AN EARLY INDICATION
OF WHO IS CONTROLLING WHAT.
NOW BYTEDANCE, TOTAL INVESTORS,
60% ARE GLOBAL INVESTORS.
20% WE’RE TOLD ARE EMPLOYEES.
ANOTHER 20%, CHINESE
ENTREPENEURS WHO FOUNDED THE
COMPANY TO BEGIN WITH BUT A
NUMBER OF CHINESE ENTREPRENEURS
VIRTUALLY ALL OF THEM IN THAT
COUNTRY ARE TIED TO THE
COMMUNIST PARTY, THE CCP.
SO WHILE THEY MIGHT NOT BE
DIRECTLY INVOLVED YOU KNOW CCP
PARTY ACTIVITIES THEY ARE PART
OF THE VERY PARTY THAT IS IN
QUESTION HERE, FEARFULLY CALLING
THE SHOTS.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?
>> YOU’RE RIGHT.
LOOK THE PERCENTAGES TO ME FROM
AN INTELLIGENCE STANDPOINT DON’T
MATTER.
THE CCP WILL NEVER REVEAL THEIR
TRUE PARTNERSHIP.
PUBLICLY WE CAN’T GET INTO THE
DETAILS OF IT BUT I CAN TELL YOU
CHINA’S METHODOLOGY OF
INTELLIGENCE COLLECTION ACROSS
THE BOARD.
THEY HAVE CCP OPERATIVES
DISGUISED IN PUBLICLY-TRADED
COMPANIES ACROSS MAINLAND CHINA
AND THE WORLD FUNDED BY THE CCP
DOING THEIR BIDDING SO THEY CAN
COLLECT INTELLIGENCE AGAINST
THEIR ADVERSARIES LIKE AMERICA.
WHETHER 20%, 2% THEY HAVE
STASHED THE PIPELINE, THE
FUNDING LINE, MECHANISMS NEEDED
TO COLLECT NOT JUST AGAINST
AMERICA BUT THE OTHER 80% OF
OWNERSHIP OUT THERE ON THE
BYTEDANCE PLATFORM.
SO ALL OVER EUROPE, ALL OVER
ASIA IT IS NOT JUST THEY’RE
COLLECTING AGAINST AMERICAN
INTERESTS.
I’M SURPRISED OUR EUROPEAN
COUNTERPARTS AND ALLIES ARE NOT
HAVING THE SAME REACTION WE ARE
HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.
I THINK THAT IS GOING TO COME
NEXT AFTER THIS CONGRESSIONAL
HEARING.
HOPEFULLY IT RAISES AWARENESS.
MORE IMPORTANTLY TIKTOK NEEDS TO
BE BANNED PERIOD.
NEIL: WELL, A NUMBER OF THOSE
EUROPEAN ALLIES TO YOUR POINT,
YOU’VE BEEN ANYTHING BUT QUIET
ON IT, WARNING FOLKS ABOUT IT,
REINING IN GOVERNMENT USE OF
TIKTOK.
WHETHER THAT EXTENDS TO AVERAGE
CITIZENS, LEGALLY COULD IS
ANOTHER MATTER.
WE’RE FOLLOWING IT CLOSELY.