WILL BE YOU, DAVID FAHRENTHOLD, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
FOR MORE ON THIS CONVERSATION,
THE LEGAL IMPLICATIONS OF THIS,
I’M JOINED BY FORMER U.S.
ATTORNEY FOR ALABAMA, JOYCE
VANCE.
VANCE. GREAT TO SEE YOU, THANK YOU FOR
BEING WITH US.
YOUR FIRST REACTION TO ALLEN
WEISSELBERG, THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION’S CFO, BEING GIVEN
THIS IMMUNITY?
THIS IMMUNITY? WHAT’S YOUR FIRST REACTION AS
SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN AT THE
OTHER SIDE OF THE DEAL ON THIS
WHERE YOU’VE GIVEN PEOPLE
IMMUNITY.
IMMUNITY. WHY?
WHY? >> SO TYPICALLY YOU GIVE
IMMUNITY BECAUSE YOU’RE HOPING
TO PROVIDE INFORMATION OR
TESTIFY AGAINST SOMEONE WHO IS
HIGHER UP ON THE FOOD CHAIN THAN
THEY ARE.
THEY ARE. YOU DON’T USE A BIG FISH TO EAT
A SMALLER FISH.
MY READ IS THAT HE GETS IMMUNITY
IN THE HOPE THAT HE CAN PROVIDE
HELP WITH SOMEONE ELSE AND COHEN
DOESN’T LOOK LIKE THE BIG FISH
THAT SDNY WOULD BE GOING AFTER
HERE.
HERE. >> SO THE IMPLICATION IS THERE’S
A BIGGER FISH, WE’RE TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT WHO THAT IS.
THE OBVIOUS CHOICE IS DONALD
TRUMP SR. BUT IT COULD BE DONALD
TRUMP JR. OR ERIC.
THOSE ARE THE ONLY POSSIBILITIES
OF SOMEBODY WHO’S MORE SENIOR TO
WEISSELBERG IN THE ORGANIZATION.
WOULD THAT BE TRUE?
>> AT LEAST IN THE
ORGANIZATIONS.
ORGANIZATIONS. AND IT’S IMPORTANT THAT WHEN YOU
GIVE SOMEONE IMMUNITY AND TRY TO
KEEP GOING UP THE CHAIN IN A
PROSECUTION, YOU DON’T ALWAYS
SUCCEED.
SUCCEED. BUT THESE ARE GOOD PROSECUTORS,
THEY KNOW HOW TO DO THESE KINDS
OF CASES.
OF CASES. IT SEEMS UNLIKELY TO ME THAT
THEY WOULD HAVE GIVEN
WEISSELBERG A PASS IF THEY
DIDN’T THINK HE HAD VALUE TO
OFFER THEM.
OFFER THEM. >> THE BENEFIT OF IMMUNITY IS
THAT I GUESS YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO
TELL THE PROSECUTORS WHATEVER
THEY WANT TO KNOW OR WHATEVER
YOU KNOW AND IN EXCHANGE FOR
THAT YOU CAN’T BE PROSECUTED FOR
THE THINGS YOU TELL THEM.
I’M ASSUMING THERE MAY BE
DIFFERENT FLAVORS OF IMMUNITY
BUT THE POINT IS ALLEN
WEISSELBERG CAN’T GET OUT THERE
AND PLEAD THE FIFTH.
>> YOU KNOW, THERE ARE DIFFERENT
FLAVORS OF IMMUNITY AND THEY
COME WITH DIFFERENT RIGHTS AND
RESPONSIBILITIES.
RESPONSIBILITIES. BUT ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS
TO REMEMBER ABOUT IMMUNITY IS
THAT IT’S ALWAYS BETTER TO HAVE
A WITNESS COOPERATING WITH YOU
VOLUNTARILY BECAUSE THEY’LL
SHARE INFORMATION THAT THEY
KNOW.
KNOW. THEY’RE DOING THAT TO GET A GOOD
DEAL FOR THEMSELVES.
WHEN YOU GIVE A WITNESS
IMMUNITY, YOU COMPEL THEM TO
SPEAK TO YOU.
THE ONLY ANSWERS YOU GET ARE THE
ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS THAT
YOU KNOW TO ASK THAT WITNESS.
SO IT’S ALWAYS PREFERABLE TO
HAVE SOMEONE COOPERATING
VOLUNTARILY AND IT’S JUST NOT
CLEAR YET WHICH WHAT IS GOING ON
HERE.
HERE. >> I NEED YOU TO GO DEEP INTO
THE RECESSES OF YOUR MIND INTO
ANCIENT HISTORY ALL THE WAY BACK
TO TUESDAY WHEN --
>> ABOUT SIX YEARS AGO IN THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. >> IT IS.
>> IT IS. IT’S LIGHT YEARS AND WHEN
MICHAEL COHEN ANNOUNCED -- WHEN
THEY ANNOUNCED WHAT WAS
HAPPENING WITH COHEN, STRANGELY,
THE PROSECUTION, THE SOUTHERN
DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, DID NOT
ANNOUNCE A COOPERATION DEAL WITH
HIM.
HIM. NOW A NUMBER OF LAWYERS -- AND
YOU AND I HAVE SPOKEN, HAVE TOLD
ME THAT SOMETIMES A COOPERATION
DEAL EMANATES FROM A PLEA DEAL.
WHERE DO YOU THINK WE ARE ON
THAT?
THAT? >> IT’S HARD TO KNOW.
I THOUGHT IT WAS REAL SURPRISING
THE TO SEE COHEN PLEAD STRAIGHT
UP TO THIS INDICTMENT.
LOOKS LIKE HE HAS SOME PLACE
BETWEEN FOUR AND SIX YEARS OF
EXPOSURE.
EXPOSURE. HARD TO KNOW WHY HE WOULD HAVE
DONE THAT.
DONE THAT. HE COULD HAVE POSSIBLY GOTTEN
SOME COOPERATION.
SOME COOPERATION. THERE’S BEEN SOME SPECULATION
THAT HIS WIFE MIGHT HAVE HAD
EXPOSURE.
EXPOSURE. HE MIGHT HAVE GONE AHEAD AND
ENTERED A PLEA OF GUILT TO SPARE
HER.
HER. I JUST DON’T THINK WE KNOW YET
AND OF COURSE PROSECUTORS COULD
DECIDE DOWN THE ROAD THAT COHEN
DOES HAVE SOME VALUE AND
CONCLUDE A COOPERATION AGREEMENT
WITH HIM AT A LATER TIME.
>> I THINK THE TAGLINE FOR THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS I DON’T
THINK WE KNOW YET.
JOYCE, ALWAYS GREAT TO SEE YOU.
THANK YOU FOR HELPING US GET
THROUGH IT.
THROUGH IT. JOYCE VANCE IS A FORMER U.S.
ATTORNEY.
ATTORNEY. >>> MUCH MORE TO GET TO AT THE
END OF THIS INCREDIBLE WEEK OF
NEWS.
NEWS. >>> STILL AHEAD, THE QUESTION
JUST WHAT MAY HAVE CHANGED IN
THE LAST FEW DAYS TO CHANGE THE
WAY THAT PROSECUTORS MACON FRONT
THE PRESIDENT.