NextEra Energy
>>> WELCOME BACK. PANEL TIME.
PANEL TIME. CHRIS MATTHEW, HOST OF
"HARDBALL," ON MSNBC AND AUTHOR
OF "BOBBY KENNEDY," ELIANA
JOHNSON FOR POLITICO AND JONAH
GOLDBERG, EDITOR AT NATIONAL
REVIEW.
REVIEW. >> THAT’S RIGHT.
>> LET ME BEGIN.
THERE IT IS.
THERE IT IS BECAUSE WE’RE DOING
IT RIGHT NOW, EVERYBODY.
LET ME, I THINK, CAITLIN
FLANAGAN AT THE ATLANTIC AND
DAVID AT THE NATIONAL REVIEW SET
UP THE CONVERSATION PRETTY WELL
FOR US.
FOR US. LET ME READ YOU FROM THE
ATLANTIC.
ATLANTIC. THE LEAST WE CAN DO IS PUT THIS
CONFIRMATION ON HOLD AND IF NOT
TRUE, KAVANAUGH SHOULD BE
APPROVED WITHOUT SUSPICION.
MY OWN INCLINATION IS NO.
HERE’S DAVID FRENCH.
IF THERE ISN’T ANY COOPERATION
OR EXTERNAL EVIDENCE OUTSIDE OF
CHRISTINE FORD’S THREE
DECADES-OLD RECOLLECTIONS,
DECADES-OLD RECOLLECTIONS, THAT’S NOT ENOUGH FOR DERAILING
THE JURIST NO MATTER HOW
FIERCELY THEY’RE BELIEVED.
WHAT’S GOING TO BE THE STANDARD
OF BELIEVABILITY?
OF BELIEVABILITY? WHERE ARE WE?
>> I THINK IT’S TREMENDOUSLY
DIFFICULT.
DIFFICULT. YOU HAVE PARTISANS ON LEFT
INCLUDING A DEMOCRATIC SENATOR
SAYING WE MUST BELIEVE THE
TESTIMONY OF THE WOMAN AND IT IS
ANTI-WOMAN TO CHALLENGE THE
ACCUSATIONS AND PARTISANS ON THE
RIGHT THROWING OUT THE NAMES OF
THEIR POTENTIAL ASSAILANTS
WITHOUT MUCH PROOF, BUT WHAT I
THINK THE DIFFICULT POSITION
JUSTICE KAVANAUGH OR JUDGE
KAVANAUGH, EXCUSE ME, PROVIDIAN
SLIP, IS BEING PUT IN IS THAT IN
THE CURRENT CLIMATE IT IS
TREMENDOUSLY DIFFICULT FOR HIM
TO DEFEND HIMSELF WITHOUT BEING
ACCUSED OF BEING ANTI-WOMAN, AND
HE, I THINK, DOES NEED TO BE
ABLE TO OFFER A DEFENSE.
>> HOW ARE WE GOING TO RESOLVE
WHETHER WHO IS BELIEVED HERE?
>> I’M NOT SURE THAT WE ARE.
I DO THINK THE PREPONDERANCE OF
THE EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE WHICH
IS ALMOST ENTIRELY
CIRCUMSTANTIAL, WITNESS
CIRCUMSTANTIAL, WITNESS TESTIMONY AND THE LIKE IS IN
JUDGE KAVANAUGH’S FAVOR.
THE FOUR PEOPLE ALLEGED TO BE
THERE ALL SAY THEY NOT ONLY DID
NOT KNOW ABOUT THE ATTACK, WHICH
WAS UNDERSTANDABLE BECAUSE IT
WAS DONE IN SECRET.
THEY DON’T KNOW ABOUT THE PARTY.
ONE PERSON WHO IS A FRIEND OF
FORD’S DOESN’T EVEN SAY SHE
KNOWS KAVANAUGH.
KNOWS KAVANAUGH. >> SHE DID SAY SHE BELIEVES
FORD, BUT YES, YOU’RE RIGHT.
>> ONE THING THAT’S DIFFICULT ON
THE RIGHT AND LEFT TO GET THEIR
HEADS AROUND IS EVEN IF WHAT DR.
FORD IS SAYING IS TRUE, AT LEAST
AS FAR AS SHE SEES IT, THE
LONG-TERM PRECEDENT THAT WE MAY
BE SETTING, THAT SAYS YOU CAN
ISSUE A NOT UNDER OATH
ALLEGATION WITH NO OTHER
CORROBORATION FOR IT AND DESTROY
A MAN’S OR A CANDIDATE, A
NOMINEE’S CHARACTER AND
REPUTATION TO DESTROY A
NOMINATION, THAT IS A PROBLEM
FOR BOTH PARTIES AND FOR THIS
COUNTRY AND EVERYONE ON THE LEFT
IS SAYING THAT THE BLOCKING OF
THE MAYOR JUSTIFIES ANYTHING
THAT THE DEMOCRATS DO.
YOU’LL HAVE REPUBLICANS FOR A
GENERATION SAYING THE
DESTRUCTION OF BRETT KAVANAUGH
JUSTIFIES WHAT THEY DO AND
EVERYTHING WILL GET WORSE.
>> CHRIS?
>> CHRIS? >> LET’S START WITH THE BASICS.
DR. FORD HAS THE RIGHT TO
PETITION CONGRESS.
PETITION CONGRESS. IT’S IN THE CONSTITUTION.
YOU HAVE A RIGHT -- SHE HAD A
RIGHT TO BRING HER COMPLAINT AND
BRING HER INFORMATION.
NUMBER TWO, DIDN’T SHE ALSO HAVE
A RESPONSIBILITY?
A RESPONSIBILITY? IF SHE HAS THIS RECOLLECTION AND
SHE TOLD HER HUSBAND IF THEY
WERE GETTING MARRIED AND SHE
WENT TO COUNSELING AND THAT WAS
THE EARLIER ESTABLISHMENT OF HER
RECOLLECTION AMONG OTHER PEOPLE.
IF IT HAPPENED AND I BELIEVE IT
DID HAPPEN FROM HER RECOLLECTION
SHOULDN’T SHE HAVE BROUGHT IT
FORWARD?
FORWARD? IMAGINE IF SHE’D HAD THIS
EXPERIENCE AND THIS THEMRY AND
NEVER TOLD ANYBODY ABOUT IT AND
THIS GUY BECAME SUPREME COURT
JUSTICE, WAS THAT A
RESPONSIBILITY IS
RESPONSIBILITY IS RESPONSIBILITY IS
RESPONSIBILITY IS RESPONSIBILITYRESPONSIBLE
RESPONSIBILITYRESPONSIBLE SIT
SIT CITIZEN.
CITIZEN. KAVANAUGH AT THAT PARTY IS A
TOTAL DENIAL AND IT’S A GOOD
LAWYER POSITION AND I’VE NEVER
DONE ANYTHING LIKE THAT OR NEAR
THAT PERSON.
THAT PERSON. THESE GUYS RAMMED ME INTO A ROOM
AND CORRALLED ME WAS THE TERM,
THREW ME ON THE BED.
WHEN I TRIED TO CRY FOR HELP,
COVERED MY MOUTH.
THIS DOES SOUND LIKE ASSAULT.
THIS ISN’T ROMANCING OR A
DRUNKEN ROMANCING, IT’S JUST
ASSAULT, AND IF SHE HADN’T
BROUGHT THAT TO THE PUBLIC, I
THINK THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AIL
FAILURE OF HER CITIZENSHIP.
>> THE VERY NATURE OF THIS SORT
OF THING ALWAYS ENDS UP BEING HE
SAID OR SHE SAID.
THAT’S WHY IT’S SO HARD, BUT IT
ALSO IS -- IT ALSO IS SO
INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT FOR A WOMAN
TO COME FORWARD AND SAY THAT I
HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ASSAULTED FOR
THE VERY REASONS THAT WE SEE
WHAT DR. FORD ARE GO -- IS GOING
THROUGH RIGHT NOW, THAT I SORT
OF DO AGREE WITH SENATOR MURRAY
THAT YOU -- YOU OWE THESE WOMEN,
I THINK, THE PRESUMPTION OF
INNOCENCE OR AT LEAST TO ASSUME
THAT THEY’RE TELLING THE TRUTH,
THEY’RE NOT MAKING THIS UP WHICH
MEANS THAT IT IS THE SENATE’S
OBLIGATION TO TAKE THIS
SERIOUSLY AND TO DO A LOT BETTER
JOB THAN THEY DID WITH ANITA
HILL HEARING.
HILL HEARING. I WENT BACK AND, I THINK A LOT O
US THIS PAST WEEK WENT BACK AND
LOOKED AT THE ANITA HILL HEARING
AND I WAS REMINDED AGAIN OF WHY
I WAS SO ANGRY WHICH IS WHY I
THINK THAT -- WHEN PRESIDENT
TRUMP CAME OUT AND SAID WHY
DIDN’T THEY CALL THE POLICE?
WHY DIDN’T SHE REPORT THIS TO
HER LOVING PARENTS AND WHY
DIDN’T THEY REPORT THIS.
IT IS SO APPALLING.
>> I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH
THAT, I’M SORRY, IN TERMS OF THE
CRUCIAL POINT.
CRUCIAL POINT. >> WOMEN WHO COME FORWARD AND
MAKE THE ACCUSATIONS, THEY
DESERVE TO BE HEARD AND TAKEN
SERIOUSLY AND SENATOR MURRAY
SAYS WE NEVER DOUBT ANYBODY WHEN
ANYONE SAYS MY CAR WAS STOLEN
AND THAT WAS A GOOD LINE.
WE GIVE THE PRESUMPTION WHEN I
SAY CHUCK TODD STOLE MY CAR.
YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT AND IF
WE’RE GOING SAY THAT AS WOMEN AS
A CLASS WILL ALWAYS BE BELIEVED
NO MATTER WHAT, AND DEMOCRATS
HAVE TO DEAL WITH CHRIS EL SONSO
WE ARE THROWING OUT A THOUSAND
YEARS OF A LAW THAT SAYS WE ARE
THROWING OUT THE ACCUSED.
>> IF MITCH McCONNELL THOUGHT
THE REPUBLICANS WOULD BE HOLDING
THE SENATE WOULD HE PUSH THROUGH
KAVANAUGH AND SAY GIVE ME
SOMEONE MORE CONFIRMABLE?
>> I AGREE WITH YOU THAT BOTH
PARTIES ARE ACTING POLITICALLY.
DEMOCRATS ARE CLEARLY PUSHING
DELAY TACTICS, IT’S OBVIOUS AND
REPUBLICANS WANT TO CONFIRM HIM
BEFORE THE ELECTION.
>> THEY FEAR NOVEMBER.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. IT’S PATENTLY OBVIOUS AND
THEY’RE USING THIS WOMAN WHO HAS
COME FORWARD AND IS GOING
THROUGH AN EXCRUCIATING
EMOTIONAL TRIAL FOR POLITICAL
ENDS AND I AGREE WITH JONAH, AND
I DO FIND IT SOMEWHAT INSULTING
TO WOMEN THAT THEY HAVE TO BE
PRESUMED TO BE TELLING THE TRUTH
AND ACTING IN GOOD FAITH AND
THAT THEIR ACCUSATIONS AND
THEY’RE PRESUMED NOT TO BE ABLE
TO BACK UP THEIR ACCUSATIONS
WITH THE EVIDENCE.
>> THEY’RE BACKING UP AN
ACCUSATION FOR SOMETHING THAT
TOOK PLACE 40 YEARS AGO.
THAT’S IMPOSSIBLE AND THE IDEA
THAT YOU’RE GOING TO GO AND I
CAN’T REMEMBER PARTIES THEY WENT
TO 40 YEARS AGO.
NONE OF US CAN, BUT SHE IS SO --
MAKES MUCH MORE SENSE BECAUSE
SHE’S THE ONE WHO WAS SEXUALLY
ASSAULTED.
ASSAULTED. >> THERE’S A BIG LINE BETWEEN
WHAT JONAH SAID IS YOU DON’T
ACCEPT THIS ABSOLUTE FACT, BUT
THERE’S SOMETHING IN THE
REPUBLICAN CONVERSATION LAST
WEEK THAT WAS DIFFERENT THAN
THAT.
THAT. THERE’S SORT OF AN I LOVE LUCY
IN THINKING OF WOMEN AND THE WAY
THEY’RE PORTRAYED BY IT.
PLOW THROUGH IT, NO, IT’S A
PERSON.
PERSON. I LIKE THE WAY NIKKI HALEY, WHEN
SOMEONE CALLED HER CONFUSED SHE
SAID I DON’T GET CONFUSED.
I THINK THE FACT THAT WOMEN ARE
CONFUSED OR MISTAKEN IS REALLY A
PROBLEM FOR THE REPUBLICANS.
>> THE IDEA THAT WOMEN CAN’T
BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS OR THAT
THEIR CLAIMS CAN’T STAND SOME
SUN LIGHT IS INSULTING.
>> AND THIS IS WHY THURSDAY IS
GOING TO BE AN IMPOSSIBLE MOMENT
FOR THIS COUNTRY AND OUR