>>> JAY-Z AND POLITICS, TWO PASSION POINTS FOR THE BEAT.
MICHAEL SAT DOWN WITH MICHAEL
ERIC DYSON ON HIS NEW BOOK
"TACKLING BOTH."
"TACKLING BOTH." >> IF YOU FOLLOW PRESIDENT
TRUMP, HE ATTACKS ONE MORE.
>> WE DON’T NEED JAY-Z TO FILL
UP ARENAS.
UP ARENAS. THEY SAY TRUMP’S LANGUAGE IS
VERY TOUGH.
VERY TOUGH. DID YOU EVER HEAR JAY-Z?
>> SOMEONE INFORM JAY-Z, BLACK
UNEMPLOYMENT IS RECORDED AT THE
LOWEST RATE EVER RECORDED.
>> J ZAY WAS USING THE F WORD
ALL OVER THE PLACE AND THEN SAY
I USE BAD LANGUAGE.
>> IT APPROXIMATE ASIDE THE
HYPOCRISY OF TRUMP PROTESTING TO
THE RHETORICAL VULGARITY THERE
AND ASK WHY THE JAY-Z OBSESSION.
THERE’S A SCHOLAR OF MUSIC AND
POLLIC
POLLIC POLITICS YOU PROBABLY KNOW WHO
ARGUES IT COMES BACK TO JEALOUSY
AND POLITICS.
AND POLITICS. OBAMA AND JAY ARE BOTH TALL,
TALENTED, AND TREMENDOUSLY
CHARISMATIC MEN WHO USED WORDS
TO ARGUE.
TO ARGUE. NOW AN AMERICAN ICON, SELF-MADE
BILLIONAIRE WHO HE PROVIDES IN A
NEW BOOK "JAY-Z: MADE IN
AMERICA."
AMERICA." WE TALK ABOUT MUSIC AND CULTURE
A LOT.
A LOT. WE’RE REALLY INTO JAY-Z.
WHAT’S INTERESTING IS THIS BOOK
PUTS MORE MEAT ON THE BONES OF
WHY THIS IS SO RELEVANT TO OUR
SOCIETY, TO OUR POLITICS, TO
WHAT KIND OF AMERICA WE WANT TO
BE.
BE. I’M THRILLED TO WELCOME "NEW
YORK TIMES" BEST SELLING AUTHOR
PROFESSOR MICHAEL ERIC DYSON,
FRIEND OF THE BEAT.
>> MY FRIEND IT’S ALWAYS GREAT
TO BE HERE AND NEVER MORE HAS
THE NAME OF YOUR SHOW, "THE
BEAT" BEEN MORE RELEVANT TO ME
WRITING THIS BOOK.
>> SHOUT OUT.
YOU RUN THIS STORY THROUGH THE
LAYERS OF JAY-Z.
DONALD TRUMP KNOWS HIM FOR WHAT
WE JUST MENTIONED.
OTHER PEOPLE KNOW HIM FOR
CELEBRITY STORIES.
CELEBRITY STORIES. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO GET
ACROSS ABOUT THE FULLNESS OF HIS
LIFE.
LIFE. >> I STARTED WITH HUSTLING,
LOOKING AT HIS BACKGROUND AND
THE FORCES THAT SHAPED HIM.
HE SAYS THE TEACHERS COULDN’T
REACH ME AND MY MAMA COULDN’T
BEAT ME.
BEAT ME. SO, WITH THAT DISDAIN IN MY
MEMBRANE, BLANK THE WORLD.
HE’S GIVING EXPLANATION OF WHAT
DROVE HIM TO A LIFE OF HUSTLING
ON THE STREETS.
WALTER McDOUGAL SAYS THAT
HUSTLING IS THE CENTRAL MOTIF OF
AMERICAN SOCIETY.
AMERICAN SOCIETY. WHAT HE STUDIED TO WIN A
PULITZER PRIZE, JAY-Z
UNDERSTOOD.
UNDERSTOOD. TRYING TO RIP PEOPLE OFF IN THE
LIKE AND THE GOOD PART OF IT,
AMERICA ALWAYS LOOKING FOR THE
NEXT STORY, THE NEXT IDEA, THE
NEXT SCHEME TO MAKE ONE RICH OR
TO ENRICH THE NATION, JAY-Z
COMBINED BOTH.
COMBINED BOTH. I LOOK AT HUSTLING, HIS POETIC
INVENTION, AND HIS POLITICAL, IF
YOU WILL, CIRCUMSTANCES, IDEAS,
AND CONDITIONS THAT HE ADDRESSES
AND HOW HE HAS TRIED TO UNITE
THEM AS AN ENTREPRENEUR AND A
BUSINESSMAN WHO’S ALSO A SOCIAL
ACTIVIST.
ACTIVIST. >> YOU TALK ABOUT HUSTLING.
PEOPLE ALSO CALL IT WORKING.
SOME PEOPLE CALL IT TRAPPING.
ALL OF THIS FITTING INTO A MODEL
OF AMERICAN CAPITALISM WHERE YOU
ARE ON THE WRONG LINE WITH YOUR
ACCESS TO CAL TAL, WITH YOUR
CONNECTIONS, WITH OFTEN YOUR
RACE, THEN WHAT YOU’RE DOING IS
DELEGITIMIZED AND YET IT WAS
SHOWN THROUGH HIS LIFE -- AND
YOU EXPLORE THIS IN THE BOOK --
THAT HE APPLIES AND MAXIMIZED
THE SAME SKILLS ON THE RIGHT
LINE.
LINE. WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO WALK
PEOPLE THROUGH THAT BECAUSE I’VE
SEEN IT SAID ON THE INTERNET,
WHEN HILLARY CLINTON WAS TALKING
ABOUT HIM, PEOPLE WERE SAYING
WHY ARE YOU PRAISING THIS,
QUOTE, DRUG DEALER.
>> EXCELLENT POINT.
BRILLIANTLY SET UP AS YOU ALWAYS
DO.
DO. IT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE THAT
AMERICA BEGINS WITH A GREAT
CRIME.
CRIME. AMERICA IS ROOTED IN THE
MENDACITY OF EM GRACINGBRACING I
THAT IT UNDERCUTS.
MANY AMERICAN FAMILIES THAT TWO
ON TO BECOME GREAT POLITICAL
FAMILIES WERE BORN IN CRIME.
MOON SHINE RUN IN THE BACKWOODS
OF APP LA CHA.
THE IDEALISM AND THE MYTHOLOGY
OF THEIR INHERIT GREATNESS
WHEREAS BLACK HUSTLING IS SEEN
WITH AN ASTERISK THAT IT IS AN
INFERIOR MODEL OF APPLYING THE
WORK ETHIC.
WORK ETHIC. BUT I WOULD AARGUE IT’S A
GREATER ATTEMPT.
GREATER ATTEMPT. WHEN PEOPLE TELL ME HOW COULD
YOU WRITE A BOOK ABOUT A GUY WHO
SOLD DRUGS, WE WRITE BOOKS ABOUT
PEOPLE WHO SOLD HUMAN BEINGS,
JOM
JOM AND STILL SEE THEIR GREATNESS.
SELLING DRUGS PALES INLOOK, Y’AL
IT’S A CAUTIONARY TALE.
HE LOOKS AT THE SENSE OF REGRET
HE HAS.
HE HAS. HE’S CALLED HIMSELF APANIMAL FOR
HAVING SOLD THOSE DRUGS, SO HE
OVERCOMES THAT STORY AND IN
DOING THAT HE TRIES TO INSPIRE A
NATION TO DO THE SAME THING AND
USE ITS HUSTLE OR ELBOW GREASE
AS MY FATHER CALLS IT TO MAKE A
LEGITIMATE LIVING.
LEGITIMATE LIVING. >> I LOVE THE LESSONS THAT ARE
SPRINKLED THROUGH HIS WORK.
WHEN YOU LISTEN CLOSELY YOU CAN
SEE THE LAYERS AND MOST ART HAS
THOSE LAYERS.
THOSE LAYERS. LET’S TAKE A BRIEF LISTEN TO
JAY-Z SPEAKING IN HIS OWN WORDS
ON NETFLIX.
ON NETFLIX. >> HE’S BRINGING OUT AN UGLY
SIDE OF AMERICA THAT WE WANTED
TO BELIEVE WAS GONE, AND IT’S
STILL HERE AND WE’VE STILL GOT
TO DEAL WITH IT.
WE HAVE TO HAVE THE
CONVERSATION, WE HAVE TO HAVE
TOUGH CONVERSATION.
TOUGH CONVERSATION. WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE N-WORD
AND TALK ABOUT WHY WHITE MEN ARE
SO PRIVILEGED IN THIS COUNTRY.
JAY-Z’S POLITICS, WHAT DID YOU
LEARN AS YOU DUG INTO THAT?
>> THAT SCENE, BY THE WAY, YOU
PLAYED THERE, WHAT IS HE TALKING
ABOUT?
ABOUT? THE USE OF THE N-WORD AND
THERE’S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE
ER HARD ENDING AND GA ENDING
WHERE BLACK PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO
APPROPRIATE IT.
APPROPRIATE IT. HE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT WHY IT IS
THIS WORD HAS RESURFACED AND
WHAT IT IS TO THE ATTRACTION OF
THAT TERM THAT GIVES PEOPLE SUCH
SATISFACTION AND HE TALKS ABOUT
DEALING WITH THE POLITICS OF
THIS AMERICAN SOCIETY, TRYING TO
GRAPPLE WHO WE ARE.
SO HERE HE’S COMPARING THE
INVIDIOUS FORMS OF RACIAL TERROR
TO AMERICAN TERROR AND
SUGGESTING IF YOU UNDERSTAND
ONE, YOU’LL UNDERSTAND THE
OTHER.
OTHER. SO JAY-Z IS TRYING TO GRAPPLE
WITH RACISM, WHITE SUPREMACY,
ANTI-SEMITISM, ANTI-ARABISM AND
ALL THE ISMS THAT CONGREGATE
TOGETHER.
TOGETHER. WHAT HE’S TRYING TO DO IS LIVE
OUT THE CREED OF AMERICA, E
PLURBUS UNUM.
PLURBUS UNUM. AND THOSE WHO WOULD PARTICIPATE
IN THIS NATION AS HE DOES AS AN
AMERICAN CITIZEN GIVING HIS BEST
TO THE NATION AND EXPECTING THAT
WE WOULD ALL MAKE THIS NATION
BETTER WITH OUR GIFTS BY STAYING
IN OUR OWN LANE DOING WHAT WE DO
BEST.
BEST. >> I’VE GOT ONE MORE TOPIC I
WANT TO GET TO AS WE DO THIS, IF
WE CAN GET INTO IMMUNITY AND
IMPUNITIVE BLACK MASCULINITY.
TELLING THE WORLD I NEVER CRY,
IF I DID I’D CRAY ICE BECAUSE
TEARS ALONE WERE CONSIDERED
WEAKNESS IN HIS COMMUNITY BUT
REALLY THE WAY AMERICA TREATS
MEN AND SAYING THE PAIN IS REAL
BUT HOW CAN YOU HEAL WHAT YOU
NEVER REVEAL?
NEVER REVEAL? WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU TO SEE
HIM GROW UP AND ACTUALLY BE
ALLOWED TO TURN 50 WHEN SO MANY
OF HIS PEERS AND SO MANY BLACK
MEN THROUGHOUT AMERICAN HISTORY
ARE CUT DOWN BEFORE THEIR TIME?
>> SO WHAT’S INTERESTING HERE IS
THAT YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
JAY-Z SAYS I CAN’T SEE THEM
COMING DOWN MY EYES SO I’LL MAKE
THE SONG CRY, THAT CLINICAL
DISTANCE, THAT DISPASSION HE
EXHIBITS, I AM NOT THE PERSON
WHO WILL BE INVOLVED, I WILL NOT
BE EMOTIONALLY INVESTED.
HE’S PUT AWAY POISONOUS
PATRIARCHY AND ACKNOWLEDGE HE
WAS WRONG.
WAS WRONG. CAN YOU IMAGINE TELLING THE
TRUTH TO THE WORLD ABOUT YOUR
SIN, YOUR INFIDELITY, ABOUT YOUR
CHEATING ON YOUR WIFE, HAVING
BEEN CALLED TO ACCOUNT AND YOU
COULD HAVE EASILY DEFLECTED IT
BUT YOU EMBRACED IT.
YOU TALKED ABOUT GOING TO
THERAPY, NEEDING TO OVERCOME
THOSE OLD MOLDED DAYS ABOUT
MASCULINITY, YOUR MOTHER’S
SEXUALITY AS A LESBIAN AND YOU
EMBRACED THE FULL RANGE OF
MASCULINITIES AND ITS
VULNERABILITIES.
VULNERABILITIES. JAY-Z HAS EMERGED AS A SPOKESMAN
AND THEREFORE TO RESONATE MORE
FULLY WITH THE WOMEN AND OTHERS
IN OUR LIVES.
>> MICHAEL, WE COME TO YOU FOR
WISDOM, POLITICS, AMERICA AND OF