INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE AND
SERVED AS THE LEAD IMPEACHMENT
MANAGER IN THE FIRST IMPEACHMENT
TRIAL OF DONALD TRUMP.
CHAIRMAN SCHIFF, ID LIKE TO
BEGIN WITH AMBASSADOR SONDLANDS
LAWSUIT AND NOT SO MUCH ON ITS
MERITS.
HE CAN AFFORD THE ATTORNEYS
FEES.
THERES NO GRAVE INJUSTICE THERE
EVEN IF EP WAS LIED TO ABOUT
REIMBURSEMENT.
BUT THE DISCOVERY PROCESS IN A
CASE LIKE THAT COULD GO IN SOME
INTERESTING AND REVEALING
DIRECTIONS.
WHAT MIGHT YOU EXPECT FROM A
LAWSUIT LIKE THAT?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THESE
GUYS ALL DESERVE EACH OTHER,
LAWRENCE.
GORDON SONDLAND TESTIFIED IN THE
DEPOSITION TO ONE THING, AND
THEN HE CLAIMED TO HAVE AN
IMPROVEMENT OF RECOLLECTION.
AND THEN HE GAVE THE TESTIMONY
YOU JUST EXCERPTED THERE,
ADMITTING OPENLY THERE WAS A
QUID PRO QUO.
APPARENTLY, IT SOUNDS FROM THIS
PLEADING, THAT SECRETARY POMPEO
WAS WILLING TO REIMBURSE HIS
LEGAL FEES WHEN HE STUCK TO THE
LINE HE GAVE IN THE DEPOSITION.
BUT WHEN HE TESTIFIED DURING THE
OPEN HEARINGS AND BASICALLY SAID
EVERYBODY WAS IN THE LOOP AND
SHOWED EMAILS AND OTHER MESSAGES
TO POMPEO SHOWING THAT POMPEO
WAS IN ON THIS SCHEME,
APPARENTLY THAT AND HIS
UNWILLINGNESS TO RESIGN AFTER
THE TRIAL LED TO POMPEO SAYING,
IM NOT GOING TO REIMBURSE YOUR
FEES ANYMORE.
YOU KNOW, THE LITIGATION, I
GUESS, WILL DEPEND ON WHAT THE
BASIS IS FOR THEIR FAILURE TO
REIMBURSE HIM.
IF THEY CLAIM THAT SONDLAND WAS
ACTING ON HIS OWN, THAT HE WAS
SOME FREE RADICAL, THEN SONDLAND
MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET DISCOVERY
TO SHOW THAT, NO, HE WAS
ACTUALLY WORK WSZING WITH RUDY
GIULIANI, WHO WAS WORKING WITH
MIKE POMPEO, AND THEY WERE ALL
IN THE LOOP.
SO ITS POSSIBLE HE COULD GET
DISCOVERY ABOUT WHAT POMPEO WAS
INVOLVED IN, WHAT HE KNEW, AND
GIULIANI, BUT MY GUESS IS HE
JUST WANTS TO GET PAID, AND HES
LOOKING FOR A SETTLEMENT WHERE
HE CAN GET SOME MONEY OUT OF IT.
>> THE POMPEO ANGLE HERE EXPOSES
HIM TO BEING SUBPOENAED TO
TESTIFY IN A DEPOSITION UNDER
OATH.
THAT WOULD MEAN MIKE POMPEO
UNDER OATH FOR THE FIRST TIME,
BEING FORCED TO ANSWER QUESTIONS
ABOUT ANY OF THIS.
>> WELL, THATS RIGHT.
AND OF COURSE THAT COULD BE VERY
INTERESTING BECAUSE THOSE
DOCUMENTS THAT HE DID SHARE
DEMONSTRATE THAT POMPEO WAS VERY
MUCH IN ON THIS, AND OF COURSE
MIKE POMPEO WAS LISTENING IN ON
THAT CALL BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP
AND PRESIDENT ZELINSKY, IN WHICH
HE WAS TRYING TO STRONG-ARM THE
LEADER OF UKRAINE TO HELP
INVESTIGATE THE BIDENS.
SO THERES A LOT WE STILL DONT
KNOW ABOUT THIS STORY.
WE DONT KNOW ABOUT, FOR
EXAMPLE, THE ROLE OF MIKE PENCE,
WHO WAS ALSO IN THE LOOP, AND
POMPEO WOULD UNDOUBTEDLY KNOW
ABOUT WHAT THE FORMER VICE
PRESIDENT WAS AWARE OF.
SO, YES, THERE COULD BE SOME
VERY INTERESTING THINGS COME OUT
IN DISCOVERY, WHICH GIVES
POMPEO, AT LEAST, A GOOD
INCENTIVE TO TRY TO SETTLE THIS
AND PAY GORDON SONDLAND TO GO
AWAY.
>> AND WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO
WHAT WE LEARNED IN THE NEWLY
UNREDACTED -- WELL, WE, THE
PUBLIC, LEARNED IN THESE NEWLY
UNREDACTED DOCUMENTS ABOUT PAUL
MANAFORT DEALING WITH THE
MUELLER INVESTIGATION AND THE
WAYS HE KEPT LYING TO THEM ABOUT
KONSTANTIN KILIMNIK?
>> WELL, ITS PRETTY INTERESTING
IN TWO RESPECTS.
FIRST, YOURE RIGHT.
IT SHOWS MANAFORT WAS A BIGGER
LIAR THAN WE KNEW, AND WE KNEW
HE WAS A PRETTY BIG LIAR TO
BEGIN WITH.
BUT IT ALSO SHOWS THE DEGREE OF
COLLUSION BETWEEN THE CAMPAIGN
CHAIRMAN FOR DONALD TRUMP AND
RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE.
HERE MANAFORT AND GATES, HIS
DEPUTY CHAIRMAN, ARE REPEATEDLY
GIVING AN AGENT OF RUSSIAN
INTELLIGENCE INTERNAL POLLING
DATA, INTERNAL STRATEGIC
DOCUMENTS ABOUT THEIR EFFORTS IN
BATTLEGROUND STATES AND KEY
DEMOGRAPHICS WITHIN THOSE
BATTLEGROUND STATES.
SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS GOING ON
WHILE THE RUSSIANS ARE DOING A
SECRET SOCIAL MEDIA OPERATION TO
HELP THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN.
AND SO ITS HARD TO FIND
SOMETHING MORE GRAPHIC THAN THAT
IN TERMS OF COLLUSION BETWEEN
THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THE
RUSSIANS AND THE SAME RUSSIAN
INTELLIGENCE THATS WORKING ON
THE SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGN.
BUT WHATS ALSO INTERESTING
ABOUT IT IS THIS IS NOW THE
SECOND FEDERAL JUDGE IN ORDERING
THESE THINGS TO BE UNREDACTED,
WHO HAS ESSENTIALLY SAID BILL
BARR WAS MISLEADING THE COUNTRY,
MISLEADING THE COUNTRY BY SAYING
THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF
COLLUSION, MISLEADING THE
COUNTRY BY SAYING THAT HE WAS
COMPELLED TO CONCLUDE THAT YOU
COULD NOT INDICT THE PRESIDENT
ON OBSTRUCTION.
AND HES ALSO -- THE JUDGE IS
ALSO SAYING THAT ESSENTIALLY
BARR HAS BEEN DISHONEST WITH THE
COURT ABOUT WHAT THAT MEMO IS
ABOUT.
ITS NOT ABOUT JUST
DELIBERATIONS.
APPARENTLY ITS ABOUT SPIN, AND
ITS FOR THAT REASON, BECAUSE
ITS ABOUT HOW DO THEY SPIN THIS
PRECISION, THIS PREDETERMINATION
THAT THEY WERENT GOING TO
INDICT THE PRESIDENT NO MATTER