We had talked about this big case.
It's the second case you've won now against DuPont over this C8 chemical.
There are almost 3500+ cases to go.
You've already won two cases for millions of dollars.
We're talking about cases, if you tally them up, well into the billions of dollars.
Yet, for DuPont, this could just be cost of doing business.
You outlaw ... I should say, You outline that dynamic in this fiction book, "Law and Disorder."
How does ... I know I may be jumping the gun a little bit, but the lead character, who
you call [deek 00:00:45], how does his career parallel your own?
Well, what I've done, Sam, is I've borrowed from I think some of the best, complex trial
lawyers in the country, people who ... There's only a handful of us throughout the entire
country that try very complex cases against companies like Merck and Johnson & Johnson
and DuPont and Dow Chemical.
After working with so many of them, those people, at least, for 35 years, I took [deek
00:01:13].
[Deek 00:01:13] is a really composite, Sam.
He's a composite of all of these lawyers.
It's impossible to write a book like this and not borrow a little bit from yourself,
and the good and the barnacles.
That's what [deek 00:01:24] is.
[Deek 00:01:25] is going to appear in a series of books that is ... Nicholas [dee-ka-tom-is
00:01:29] is the character.
It's in a setting where he's confronting exactly what we do for a living.
It's not told ... Although Publishers Weekly wrote a very good review of it, they said
sometimes, when I talk about politics, I become a little preachy.
I think I do.
I think the idea is the story has to be told.
Some of these political stories have to be told.
For example, in this "Law and Disorder," we talked about a product called [ran-i-doll
00:01:59], which is a birth prevention pill.
That's just one of the stories.
It's one of the stories that tells about a similarity that we could name in five other
cases that actually took place just within the last 20 years, where somebody dies because
of the birth control pill.
It also goes into a story about pollution that's causing exactly the kind of cancer
from the case that I just finished up in the Ohio Valley.
It lends itself to so many stories and so many parts of the stories, the backstories,
that the media doesn't tell.
They're not even permitted to tell them, Sam.
If I ... For example, a you know, there was a period of time when I was doing MSNBC as
a contributor.
There was no way I could tell these stories on MSNBC.
Well, because they're advertising.
They cut to you and go to the advertiser you just talked about.
That's correct.
Fortuitously, I was contacted by RT Network, Russian Television International, to actually
come on and do a regular show where these stories are told.
That story ... That show begins in September.
It's called "America's Lawyer."
I'll be dealing with some of the best, interviewing some of the best lawyers in the country, where
they tell the backstory, Sam.
It's not just the headline.
It is who are the CEOs who committed this fraud that should have them actually in prison?
Who are the lower level managers who destroyed documents to try to cover up?
Who are the scientists that were paid big money to make up a fabricated story saying
the particular product is safe?
Who are the regulators that were paid off in order for this to all occur?
Those are the stories that will be told on "America's Lawyer," which is really an extension
of what I'm trying to do with these fiction books, to tell a story that you can read on
the ... You can read the story on the beach.
Right.
It doesn't take long.
You can read the book in a day, day and a half.
You can come away and say it was a good story, but you can also say, "I learned an awful
lot in that story."
Sometimes, that's the only way.
That's why I think Grisham is so brilliant.
Grisham is brilliant because, if you read a Grisham novel, you're going to hear things
that you've never heard to where you almost go, "Is that true?"
Most of what he does is true.
This is kind of an extension of that very thing, maybe a little more detailed because
this is actually what I do for a living.
Grisham is an attorney, but I don't know that he did this day to day.
We're trying to fold in some stories and the backstories to those stories that I think
make it particularly interesting.
Well, I ... Frankly, I think both the show and the book couldn't be more timely.
Knock on wood, we're going to have a Democratic president appoint the next Supreme Court justice
who will sit in place of Antonin Scalia, tilting the court at least nominally to the left.
I think there's a lot of cases about arbitration and about wage theft and about issues, access
to the courts ...
They can be turned around, yeah.
I think ... They can be turned around.
I think this is a time, and certainly "Law and Disorder," which people can find at lawanddisorderbook
dot com, and your new show, which starts in September, "America's Lawyer," are going to
be two really important pieces in making Americans genuinely appreciate the role of plaintiff
attorneys and the need to push back against this corporate mal- and misfeasance.
Of course, you doing ... I'm excited because, now I know you're out of the heat of the battle,
we'll have you back on "Ring of Fire" a lot more.
Yeah, please do, Sam.
I appreciate that.
Of course.
I'll be glad to appear in as much as you want me to, and talk about a lot of these things
that you and I used to talk about.
Great.
I just reached a very busy point in my life where I just didn't have a minute.
I bet.
By the way, it's amazing the way you continue to build and build the audience with "Ring
of Fire" throughout this country.
There's not a day that goes by where I'm not reminded by somebody calling me or e-mailing
me and say, "Caught the show again.
Sam is a superstar."
I really appreciate you doing that, continuing the spirit of "Ring of Fire."
Pap, thanks so much.
We'll talk to you soon.
Thank you, Sam.