- What's up? This is Michael Rapaport.
Players' Tribune, '90s hip-hop,
Oakley, Scottie Pippen,
all topics are on the table.
Coming to the stage first,
'cause we gotta do the New Yorker first,
Charles Oakley needs no introduction. Come to the stage.
Alright, and coming to the stage, the great Scottie Pippen.
Oh my God.
I didn't see Rod Strickland.
I'm already nervous enough.
Alright, so listen,
let's just jump into this.
I want to just articulate first,
you know, it's funny when I saw both of you guys backstage
because, like I just said, you both conjured up such
feelings for me as a fan. And I'm sure people
in this building, Scottie, 'cause we are in New York,
are probably really struggling with this.
Because this is a guy, as a New York Knicks fan,
this was like our guy.
And you were our guy but in different way.
You know, and I had a funny story as a fan....
I remember seeing Reggie Miller in a restaurant
about a year after he retired.
And he was like, "You know, you used to talk a lot of shit."
And I was like, "Yeah, I used to talk a lot of shit."
And I say this ... the same thing about you.
But I respected the shit out of you.
So as much as you gave us trouble and I was like,
I mean, I said things that I wouldn't even say -
I'd say them to your face, but, you know,
we're in a nice place. But you used to
drive me fucking nuts, Scottie,
But that's in the past.
We'll relive some of that past
and, you know, celebrate some of your careers in the '90s.
So my first question is for both of you.
'Cause when you guys played
you were both such unique players.
Your style of play, big men in general,
it's like completely changed.
Was there a guy, when you were first in the league,
that you were like, "I thought I was strong."
This is a guy when you're 20, 21, 22, you're like,
"Yo, this is a grown-ass man."
- Uh, no.
No.
- You never had that feeling?
- No. I was a grown-ass man
when I left Cleveland to go to college.
When a grown man leaves home and go to college,
and only come back one time in four years,
that mean you grown.
But no, I got to the league, I was about bringing them....
I had two lunch buckets, lunch pails
whatever you want to call them.
But no, I was just about focus.
I was just glad to get drafted, the opportunity.
I wasn't gonna let it go out the window.
I wanted to show them how hungry I was
for the opportunity to get a chance to play in the NBA,
and with Michael Jordan.
So once that happened, you get your place,
you move in, and just work, work, work.
Wasn't nothing about going out, buying this, buying that.
All I wanted to do was just get there.
Because when I got there,
it was three power forwards in front of me,
so I had work to do.
That's why I had all of them lunch pails.
And I had to bring my lunch. I ain't want to leave the gym.
Because I knew, three guys in front of me,
I had to work my way up.
But about midseason that first year,
I ended up starting.
- Wow.
That's crazy.
Alright, so you guys,
you know, we don't need to go down the
Michael Jordan rabbit hole
because that will really fucking piss me off, Scottie.
But what was your first impression
of this guy when he came to camp?
Because I remember he was skinny, you know.
You found your game. But what was your first take on him?
And why were you beating him up in that footage?
- It's all kind of stories.
- Because you looked scared as shit!
- When he got drafted to Chicago,
Scottie came and ... he might be skinny,
but he liked to talk. And he don't talk a lot
to just people, people.
But he talk and tell you ... he told me one day,
"You know what? I'm going to be better than Mike."
I'll never forget that.
- He said that?
- Scottie said that. I said it in another story.
He said that. And he said, "Hey."
He used to say stuff to Michael sometime at practice,
but he watched what he said.
He said the stuff sometimes, but Scottie-
- I didn't want to get traded.
- Hey, I got traded because I was talking.
Scottie will tell you.
I'm a team guy.
If you my teammate and you do something,
and I think it's right, and I see that it's the right thing,
I got your back 1,000. Not 100, 1,000.
Ask anybody I played with.
I might get traded,
but I'm gonna try to do the right thing.
But some guys don't have a chance
to speak up for themselves.
Rod will tell you.
I don't ... management might get at me.
But know what I tell management?
"You know what? I'm here early, I'm working,
I understand this."
A lot of guys get pushed under the rug,
can't stand on their own,
I wasn't for that when I played.
I had the guys' back.
- Is there a first moment that you could
remember where you were like on the court,
not in training camp,
but you were on the court playing in the NBA
and you were like,
"Oh shit, there's so-and-so," or, "I'm in this arena."
Do you remember like that moment?
- No.
I never had those moments,
and here's why.
You know, when I came into the game
I played alongside Charles Oakley,
but, obviously, I played with Michael Jordan.
So, there was no player in the game bigger
than Michael Jordan.
He was probably the only one that probably put me
in awe if I was ever in awe.
But I was never in awe to be honest.
That's the answer to that question.
You know, it was a lot of players that I respected.
And when I saw him on the court
it was different. It was more than I anticipated.
But some of 'em was a little less than I anticipated.
So it all worked out.
But, you know, basketball was different then
because there were no relationships.
I didn't have a chance to know who Rod Strickland was.
I didn't have a chance to even know who Charles Oakley was.
But we became teammates, and meeting Rod Strickland,
and competing against him year in and year out,
those types of relationships, you know,
evolve over time.
Obviously, Rod went to school in Chicago,
so it made it a little easier for me to approach him.
But that's kind of my story about that.
- You know, he's young, too.
You guys are close in age.
- He was my rook.
- O.K., so how was that being his rook?
And this is at a time there
was no participation trophies,
and now that the whole rook thing is on Instagram,
you know it's all cute.
What was like the toughest sort of chore?
- You know, Oak was tough, really, my first year.
But he was like a big brother to me.
He showed me the ropes not only on the basketball court
but off the basketball court.
And that's really where we bonded, mostly.
You know, he was definitely sending me down the rookie path.
But I was learning a lot from Oak, as I say,
not only on the court but off the court, as well.
On the court, he was a great teammate, a great communicator,
a guy that, you know, controlled the lane,
played bigger than what he really was,
because, as we know, he wasn't a great leaper.
But, you know, he was always one of the....
Seriously. But he was one of the top rebounders
in the game so, you know, go figure that.
So he was a guy that, you know, as he said,
he was built on hard work, you know.
He was one of the guys that kind of helped us
through the journey of being able
to beat the Detroit Pistons.
So, you know, he taught us how to be tough mentally,
and taught us how to get in the gym
and get tough physically, as well.
So he helped us along the way to finally be able
to get over that hump. And I wish he would have been
with us throughout that whole journey.
- That's awesome.
You know, we're closing in on time, so I'm gonna
jump forward a little bit.
There's two iconic moments that I wanted to ask you about,
specifically in the Knicks-Bulls series.
There was a Starks dunk over Michael Jordan.
On his fucking head.
This, he had it. This, Scottie. Like that.
- You got a picture of it in here?
- Yeah.
The picture's in our heart. We don't need the pictures.
What do you remember about that play, Oak?
- I remember passing to the wing and,
you know, coming up, he just ... I don't know.
I guess John was feeling that night. When he dunked it,
I was the first one to pat him on his butt.
I mean them series was great.
You know, my thing is, thinking back in the '90s,
playing against Chicago was ... you know,
when we got Pat Riley, we thought there was....
In sports, you want this next guy you get,
you know, we can play.
But can he the last two minutes of the game?
Some type of preparation you're wanting,
you know, like give us something we didn't have.
And I think that Phil Jackson played possum
with Pat Riley every time he played the Bulls.
- What do you mean by that?
- He, you know, he made Pat Riley seem like
he knew what he was doing.
Seem like it.
In every game ... situation was, if you watched the tape,
watched the films of the games we played against the Bulls,
our second half adjustment - we'd never adjust.
If was playing the Bulls, if I was the coach,
I would never sub until they sub.
We tried to please guys so they'll keep the guys up there
that we know gonna go to war for 48 minutes
that we had to play.
So it ain't about giving guys the minutes.
It's who you playing against.
Sometimes, you can get your minutes on teams
that don't have no good chemistry,
don't have a great player like Michael Jordan.
When you play against the Bulls, it's hard to make mistakes.
I used to tell everybody,
"When we playing the Bulls, we come in the game
already four points down."
Most of the time, that's what the game came down to -
the last two or three possessions -
and we wasn't sound enough.
And I blame Pat Riley a lot for that.
- Jesus, you're crushing me right now.
- I'm being real.
- I love it.
- Don't you all think we were just better
the last five minutes?
- This is fan question.
This is actually gonna be, this is from somebody in here.
This was actually going to be my follow-up
to the Starks dunk.
Because I found it rude, Scottie.
Real rude.
Like and I was like, I think you guys were
on the Dream Team together,
you must have played golf.
I know Michael Jordan had some sort
of sick, sick affinity
fucking with Pat Ewing.
It was like a sick thing, like
it was like ... it was cruel.
It was rude.
He really got off on it.
You dunked on him one time - and we know the dunk -
and you did all this,
and it was like this and I mean -
- How about Oakley came and pushed me away?
- You're lucky it wasn't just a push!
- Well Patrick should've got him,
hit him in the head or something.
I was just, you know, I was like,
that's what I'm talking about, you know.
I blame Patrick too, so....
That's another thing with that series:
My thing is, we had to play so perfect to beat them.
And sometimes Patrick played right to they hands.
They knew he couldn't pass the ball.
They knew once he put it down on the floor
he wasn't gonna pass it.
So, soon he started dribbling it,
that's when they double-teamed.
They was just like safe.
Just pass the ball out the double-team three or four times -
and it woulda been a big, different weak side.
We didn't do that.
I know they were like watching me
and like, we know what he gonna do every time.
- You still didn't answer the question, Scottie.
- What's your question?
- What did he do to you like that he deserved
that kind of taunting and I ...
- Hey, Mike, you watch my whole career,
that was nothing different than the way
I played my whole career.
- Alright.
- He just got in the way.
- Alright. Fine.
Aside from you guys, and aside from Mike -
we could talk about this guy the whole time -
you guys both had great relationships in the league,
played with so many different players
throughout your career.
Pip, Oak - quick:
Who was the most fun teammates that you can remember
that you had, you know, off-the-court, on-the-court
relationship with to this day?
- Oh Wow.
- Just rattle a few off.
- In Chicago, probably like Scottie said,
we guys the rookie year, we did everything.
Went to dinner, played tonk - we just had fun together.
We bonded and I think when I got traded,
I came to New York, it was different then.
Me and Mason got real tight.
Rod was on the team early.
Mason, different guys, but
basically every team I went to
I just tried to make sure my teammate was okay,
make sure that, you know, we knew what we was doing.
We hung out sometimes, we didn't hang out too much.
Be in before 12 on a game night.
After that, you know, you're okay with me.
- Scottie?
- What was your question? Who was my -
- Players, teammates that you were like, Yo, that's my guy.
- Well, I mean there's no one that can top Oak.
My freshman year, you know, him being from Cleveland,
every time we hit the road - especially back then
we played against the Cavs six times -
we're at his mom's house three of those times,
we're gambling, we're eating - all night.
And, yeah, life was fun with Oak.
'Cause like I said, my first few years,
three years in the league,
he was like a brother,
father figure, whatever you want to call it,
best friends. And, you know, we're still like that today.
- Aside from Mike - 'cause he can come into this
'cause I heard he was good at this -
biggest and best trash talker.
I don't think anybody talked shit to you.
But, Scottie, like who were the ones -
whether they were good at it or not -
like who were the ones just gibber-gabber the whole time?
- I mean, Gary Payton talked a lot.
But, in my era, probably Larry Bird.
He would talk trash and do something tricky
or ... you know, him, Adrian Dantley, those kind of guys
were like big trash talkers.
I can't even say AD was as much of a trash talker
as he was a dirty player.
- Dirty, like how? Like dirty like what?
- I guess he was teaching me, but he would do -
- Like what did he teach you?
- He would do the back down,
and then all of a sudden he'll hook your arm -
and he was one of the strongest guys.
I mean, he was strong as Oak.
And he would just run to the basket,
holding your arm. And he had the
- [Together] ugliest shot.
- You know, he'd like throw it up,
and he'd get a foul every time.
- And he was short, right?
- Short, about six-four, but I mean physically strong.
Hey man, that dude can score the basketball.
Y'all go check the record books.
- Yeah, he played with Detroit.
- They probably got about 10,000 of 'em on me.
- He was tough?
- Oh, he was tough.
- He can score on us, six-five, six-four guys.
- I'll throw different - just names at you guys.
First, Moses Malone.
- Great guy.
- Best man, classiest guy around.
- I put him in the top five centers.
Some people gonna say, you crazy.
But what he did, night in and night out,
and how he did it.
I watched a tape about two months ago,
when he played the Lakers,
when they beat them four straight.
He gave Kareem 28 and 25.
Moses Malone, he was just a hard worker,
six-ten, undersized center, but never got his due.
Rest in peace Moses Malone.
- Dominique Wilkins.
- Probably one of the most underrated guys.
Probably one of my toughest opponents.
- Why? What made him tough?
- Well, I mean, because, one,
he was competing against Michael Jordan
and I had to guard him.
So, that's what made him tough,
'cause every time Michael scored, he was coming.
But Dominique was like, he was one of the ultimate scorers
before Michael Jordan.
You know, Michael obviously passed him up
with his charisma and his style,
but Dominique was coming.
Dominique would try to give you like 40, 50 points a night.
Like you look at this era,
Dominique was living that era back then.
When he started a game, he was trying to give you 50.
- He was aware of it. He was ready to go.
- Yeah, yeah. It was all about scoring for Dominique.
- Karl Malone.
- Ah... aw, man.
Karl Malone was good, but ... one thing is,
he was good but he cried a little too much
for a man that big.
You can't let me see you cry.
Cry for Karl.
You All-Star, you Dream Team,
you whatever, whatever ...
Second-leading scorer ever in the NBA....
But he had the mid-range jumper,
and he played with a great point guard, John Stockton.
Couldn't make nobody better, though.
- Isiah Thomas. The original - Detroit Pistons Isiah Thomas.
You know, listen, listen - you know, one of the things
about having the good fortune of being around basketball,
it seems like Isiah, when his name comes up -
in terms of people that played with him,
played against him - there's always ...
it's a reaction.
- So, it ain't just me?
- And it ain't just Oak.
Oak just did this.
- He's one of them guys he's like a fly.
I mean, you trying to kill him
'cause he land on your food, keep messing with you.
But, my thing is, he's a great point guard -
I think he should've been on the Dream Team, all that -
but he just, there's something about him.
I can't trust him.
- Pippen, I'll let you elaborate.
You were on that Dream Team.
- I grew up that if I don't have nothing good to say,
don't say nothing.
I just, this is a segue.
- I'm just saying, nothing good
is gonna come out of you asking me that.
- Yes, O.K., good.
- And I think you are videoing this,
so you might want to keep this...
- But as a player, as an opponent,
he's one of like, you know...
- I don't respect him,
so I don't have anything to say about the guy.
- Shit, you just said they were videotaping this, Scottie.
You could've said, "Yeah, he was good."
Alright, listen,
I first, I'll say on behalf of the fans,
- Don't nobody know who he is anyway.
- I got you.
- What am I gonna say, he's a snake?
Just saying.
- Just saying.
- I was moving on.
- Oh, we can stay here.
- Keep going, you wanna keep going?
- Yeah, we can stay here.
- Well, listen, they're telling me -
I got it, I got it, yeah.
No, I was trying to say this,
I can say this 'cause everybody
that came here is a true fan.
This was a pleasure and an honor to have the opportunity
to talk to you guys.
[Applause.]
You know, you guys are both icons
and one-of-one players.
So, I have to wrap it up... - He's the man.
- And thank you so much.
What are you gonna say, Scottie?
- Man, you New York Knick fans ain't never cheered for me.
- So, thank you, guys.