NOW. >> I CALL TWITTER A TYPEWRITER.
>> GOOD EVENING FROM NEW YORK.
I’M CHRIS HAYES.
TODAY DONALD TRUMP WAVED THE
WHITE FLAG, ACKNOWLEDGING IN SO
MANY WORDS THAT HE COULD NOT
OVERRIDE A SUPREME COURT RULING
BARRING HIS ADMINISTRATION FROM
ADDING A CITIZENSHIP QUESTION TO
THE CENSUS UNDER A BOGUS
PRETEXT.
PRETEXT. >> IT’S DEEPLY REGRETTABLE, BUT
IT WILL NOT STOP US FROM
COLLECTING THE NEEDED
INFORMATION.
INFORMATION. AND I THINK EVEN IN GREATER
DETAIL AND MORE ACCURATELY.
>> IN ADMITTING DEFEAT, TRUMP
ORDER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES TO
SHARE EXISTING DATA THAT WOULD
ALLOW THE ADMINISTRATION TO
EFFECTIVELY BUILD A CITIZENSHIP
DATABASE, AND THAT COULD HAVE
SERIOUS RAMIFICATIONS THAT WE’LL
DISCUSS SHORTLY.
DISCUSS SHORTLY. BUT HE LOST ON ONE OF THE MOST
CONTROVERSIAL QUESTION THERE’S
IS.
IS. THE CENSUS, DONE EVERY TEN
YEARS, ORDERED BY THE
CONSTITUTION, SETS THE
GROUNDWORK FOR NEARLY EVERYTHING
THE GOVERNMENT DOES.
IT’S USED TO DETERMINE HOW MANY
SEATS EACH STATE HAS IN THE
HOUSE, HOW THE NATION ALLOCATES
BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS IN FEDERAL REVENUE, NOT
TO MENTION ELECTORAL COLLEGE
VOTES, AND THE MAKEUP OF STATE
LEGISLATURES, DECISIONS ABOUT
WHERE TO BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE, A
HOST OF OTHER QUESTIONS.
TO DO THAT, THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS
AN ACCURATE HEAD COUNT OF EVERY
PERSON IN THE UNITED STATES.
ADDING A CITIZENSHIP QUESTION TO
THE CENSUS WOULD UNDERMINE THAT
GOAL, BECAUSE IT WOULD
DISCOURAGE UNDOCUMENTED
DISCOURAGE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS AND THEIR FAMILIES,
AMONG OTHERS FROM PARTICIPATING.
THAT WOULD HAVE HURT STATES AND
DISTRICTS THAT ARE MORE DIVERSE
AND TEND TO BE THE MOST OFTEN
REPRESENTED BY DEMOCRATS.
OF COURSE THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION DIDN’T ADMIT THAT
WAS THE POINT.
THEY ARGUED ABSURDLY WHAT THEY
WANTED TO DO TO ADD THE QUESTION
WAS IN AN EFFORT TO BETTER
ENFORCE PARTS OF THE VOTING
RIGHTS ACT, WHICH THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN HOSTILE
TO FROM THE START.
IN MARCH, COMMERCE SECRETARY
WILBUR ROSS WENT BEFORE
CONGRESS, AND HE JUST FLAT-OUT
LIED IN AN EFFORT TO PUSH THAT
BOGUS STORY, BUT ROSS’ LIES WERE
EVENTUALLY EXPOSED, AND COURT
AFTER COURT RULED AGAINST THE
ADMINISTRATION UNTIL THE
CITIZENSHIP QUESTION ENDED UP
FOR THE SUPREME COURT.
AND THAT’S WHEN SOMETHING EVEN
WILDER HAPPENED.
WILDER HAPPENED. THE ESTRANGED DAUGHTER OF A
DECEASED REPUBLICAN OPERATIVE
DISCOVERED FILES ON HIS HARD
DRIVE THAT COMPLETELY UNDERMINED
THE ADMINISTRATION’S POSITION.
THE HARD DRIVE SHOWED THE
OPERATIVE HELP COME UP WITH A
PRETEXT FOR ADDING THAT
CITIZENSHIP QUESTION AND THAT HE
BELIEVED THAT DRAWING POLITICAL
MAPS THAT EXCLUDE NONCITIZENS
WOULD, QUOTE, WOULD BE ADVANTAGE
TO REPUBLICANS AND NON-HISPANIC
WHITES.
WHITES. IN OTHER WORDS, WE CAN TIP THE
SCALES TO WHITE PEOPLE AND
REPUBLICANS.
REPUBLICANS. NOW THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THE
TIPPING POINT IN A 5-4 DECISION,
CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS SIDED
WITH THE COURT’S LIBERAL RING,
RULING THE ADMINISTRATION COULD
NOT ADD THE QUESTION BASED ON
THOSE BOGUS PRETEXTS.
THE ADMINISTRATION THEN BEGAN
PRINTING CENSUS FORMS, EVEN AS
TRUMP RAGED AND HEMMED AND HAWED
AND TRIED TO FIND SOME OTHER WAY
AROUND THE SUPREME COURT.
BUT TODAY, USUALLY, HE DIDN’T.
BUT HERE’S THE THING.
TRUMP MAY HAVE LOST IN THE
SUBSTANCE, BUT HIS
ANTI-IMMIGRANT RHETORIC WILL
CONTINUE TO HAVE A CHILLING
EFFECT.
EFFECT. THAT HAS BEEN THE ASPECT OF
TRUMPISM FROM DAY ONE.
HE HAS WORKED TO SCAPEGOAT AND
VILIFY IMMIGRANTS AND FRANKLY
SCARE THE HELL OUT OF THEM.
WE’RE LEARNING ON SUNDAY THE
ADMINISTRATION PLANS OR SAYS IT
PLANS TO CONDUCT MASS
IMMIGRATION RAIDS ON AT LEAST
2,000 FAMILIES ACROSS THE UNITED
STATES.
STATES. YOU MIGHT THINK THE
ADMINISTRATION WOULD WANT TO
KEEP SUCH RAIDS QUIET TO
MAINTAIN AN ELEMENT OF SURPRISE,
BUT THE RAIDS THEMSELVES ARE
ENTIRELY THE POINT.
THE POINT IS TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL
SCARED AND ALIENATED, AND LIKE
STRANGERS IN THE PLACE THEY
LIVE, AND TO MAKE THE PEOPLE WHO
HATE IMMIGRANTS AND LOVE DONALD
TRUMP FEEL GOOD.
JOINING ME NOW, TOM SAENZ,
PRESIDENT AND GENERAL COUNSEL OF
THE MEXICAN LEGAL DEFENSE AND
EDUCATION FUND WHICH SUED THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OVER THE
CITIZENSHIP QUESTION.
CITIZENSHIP QUESTION. IT WAS ONE OF TWO SUITS, THIS
ONE BASED IN MARYLAND.
THOMAS, YOUR REACTION TO THE
PRESIDENT’S DECISION TODAY.
>> WELL, IT’S A LITTLE LATE.
HE IS TEN DAYS BEHIND HIS
LAWYERS WHO TOLD US AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE MONTH THAT THEY
WOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH CENSUS
2020 WITHOUT A CITIZENSHIP
QUESTION.
QUESTION. BUT IT’S CERTAINLY A VICTORY.
A VICTORY IF IT STICKS.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS
IS A FINAL DECISION THAT CANNOT
BE REVERSED AT ANY POINT IN THE
FUTURE.
FUTURE. BUT IF IT IS A FINAL DECISION
AND WE CAN GET A QUARTER THAT
PREVENTS IT FROM BEING REVERSED,
IT’S A GREAT VICTORY.
>> WHAT IS THE IF?
I HEAR SOME HESITANCY IN YOUR
VOICE.
VOICE. >> WELL, AS YOU KNOW, WE’VE GONE
THROUGH TEN DAYS OF A PURPORTED
REVERSAL.
REVERSAL. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THIS IS A
DECISION THAT WON’T BE REVISITED
PRIOR TO THE CENSUS NEXT YEAR,
AND WEE GET IT PUT IN A COURT
ORDER THAT WILL PREVENT THEM
FROM REVERSING THIS DECISION AT
ANY POINT.
ANY POINT. >> IT’S BEEN INTERESTING TO ME
THERE HAS BEEN THIS PRETEXT ALL
ALONG THAT WAS COOKED UP, AND WE
ALL KNOW THAT, THAT THE JEFF
SESSIONS DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
WAS SO INTENT ON ENFORCING THE
VOTING RIGHTS ACT THEY HAD TO
ASK THIS QUESTION.
THAT WAS PREPOSTEROUS.
IT WAS COOKED UP BY WILBUR ROSS
AND STEVE BENNETT AND ALL THOSE
FOLKS.
FOLKS. THE PRESIDENT TODAY CAME RIGHT
OUT AND SAID WHY HE WANTS THIS
INFORMATION.
INFORMATION. I WANT TO PLAY FOR YOU AND GET
YOUR REACTION TO HEARING HIM BE
EXPLICIT ABOUT WHAT THEY’RE
AFTER.
AFTER. TAKE A LISTEN.
>> NOT THE ONE YOU NEEDED FOR
CONGRESS.
CONGRESS. YOU NEED IT FOR CONGRESS, FOR
DISTRICTING.
DISTRICTING. YOU NEED IT FOR APPROPRIATIONS.
WHERE ARE THE FUNDS GOING?
HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE THERE?
ARE THEY CITIZEN?
ARE THEY NOT CITIZENS?
YOU NEED IT FOR MANY REASONS.
>> SORRY, THAT WAS FROM FRIDAY.
BUT HE IS BEING VERY CLEAR HERE
THAT THEY WANT WORRY AND
REPRESENTATION AND EVERYTHING
AROUND CITIZENS.
AROUND CITIZENS. >> THAT’S RIGHT.
THEY WANT TO CHANGE THE RULES.
WE’VE KNOWN FROM AT LEAST THE
14th AMENDMENT THAT EVERY PERSON
IS TO BE COUNTED AND INCLUDED IN
APPORTIONS HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES SEATS AMONG THE
STATES.
STATES. THEY APPEAR TO WANT TO REVISIT
THAT, AND WE HAVE THROUGHOUT OUR
HISTORY COUNTED THE TOTAL
POPULATION, RECOGNIZING THAT
EVERYONE IS A CONSTITUENT IN
DRAWING THE DISTRICTS THAT ARE
REPRESENTED BY CONGRESS MEMBER,
STATE LEGISLATORS AND OTHERS ALL
AROUND THE COUNTRY.
SO, YES, THEY’VE BEEN MORE AND
MORE EXPLICIT ABOUT SEEKING TO
CHANGE THE RULES, JUST AS THEY
KNOW THE EXISTING RULES WILL
PLAY OUT AGAINST THEM.
>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
>> WELL, DONALD TRUMP KNOWS THAT
HE HAS ALIENATED THE LATINO
COMMUNITY.
COMMUNITY. HE FURTHER KNOWS THAT THE LATINO
COMMUNITY IS GROWING QUICKLY IN
IMPORTANT STATES ACROSS THE
COUNTRY, AND ANYTHING HE CAN DO
TO DIMINISH THE COUNT AND THE
INFLUENCE OF THE LATINO
COMMUNITY, HE SEEMS TO CONCLUDED
WOULD BENEFIT HIM POLITICALLY
PERSONALLY, AND ALSO THOSE WHO
FOLLOW HIM.
FOLLOW HIM. >> BUT IT’S BIGGER THAN DONALD
TRUMP, ISN’T IT?
HOFELLER, THE INDIVIDUAL WHO
DIED, HE IS A MEMBER OF THE GOP
ESTABLISHMENT IN GOOD STANDING.
HE COOKED UP THE MAPS BY COURTS
IN NORTH CAROLINA.
DO YOU SEE THIS AS PART OF A
BROADER PROJECT?
BROADER PROJECT? >> YES.
>> YES. I THINK IT’S QUITE CLEAR THERE
ARE FOLKS ON THE RIGHT WHO FOR
MANY, MANY YEARS, INDEED THEY
PURSUED COURT CASES ALL THE WAY
TO THE SUPREME COURT HAVE BEEN
INTERESTED IN CHANGING THE RULES
ABOUT DRAWING DISTRICTS BECAUSE
THEY RECOGNIZE THAT THE
DEMOGRAPHICS ARE NOT IN THEIR
FAVOR, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY REGRETTABLY HAS
ALIENATED THE LATINO COMMUNITY
LARGELY BECAUSE OF A NEAR
UNANIMOUS ANTI-IMMIGRANT
UNANIMOUS ANTI-IMMIGRANT NATIVIST STREAK IN THEIR POLICY
MAKE, AND THAT IS DANGEROUS OVER
THE LONG-TERM.
THE LONG-TERM. I’M IN CALIFORNIA, AND THIS
HAPPENED IN CALIFORNIA A QUARTER
CENTURY AGO WHEN PETE WILSON’S
CHAMPIONING OF AN ANTI-IMMIGRANT
PROPOSITION ON THE BALLOT GAINED
HIM REELECTION BUT REALLY
CATALYZED A CHANGE IN THE
POLITICS OF THIS STATE SO IT
WENT FROM BEING A PURPLE STATE
TO A VERY SOLIDLY BLUE STATE,
LARGELY BECAUSE THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY IN CALIFORNIA HAD
ALIENATED THOSE GROUPS THAT WERE
GROWING IN SIZE, LATINOS, ASIAN
AMERICANS, AND THOSE WHO SUPPORT
THEM.
THEM. >> FINAL QUESTION.
THIS WAS REMARKABLE LITIGATION
IN A LOT OF WAYS, BOTH THE SUIT
IN MARYLAND AND NEW YORK.
WHAT IS YOUR BIG LESSON FROM THE
FACT THAT IN SOME WAYS THE LEVEE
HELD HERE?
HELD HERE? I WAS A LITTLE SCARED WE WERE
GOING TO GET OUR ANDREW JACKSON
MOMENT, FRANKLY.
MOMENT, FRANKLY. SOME KIND OF OUTRIGHT DISOBEYING
OF THE SUPREME COURT ORDER.
WHAT’S YOUR OPINION ON WHATLESSO
HERE?
HERE? >> IT’S A LESSON ABOUT THE
STRENGTHS OF THE COURTS WHICH IS
A REASON WE SHOULD BE FURTHER
CONCERNED ABOUT UNQUALIFIED
FOLKS WITH EVIDENT BIASES BEING
APPOINTED BY DONALD TRUMP TO
LIFETIME APPOINTMENTS ON THE
FEDERAL COURTS.
FEDERAL COURTS. THE FEDERAL COURTS REALLY ARE
OUR LAST BULWARK OF DEFENDING
THE CONSTITUTION AGAINST VERY
REAL THREATS LIKE THE ONE YOU
DESCRIBED.
DESCRIBED. SO IN THIS CASE, THE COURTS
PLAYED THEIR ROLE, AND THAT’S