>>> DONALD TRUMP MAY BE LOSING GROUND IN HIS FIGHT TO KEEP HIS
TAXES HIDDEN FROM THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE, JUST AS HIS LEGAL TEAM
WAS MAKING ITS CASE TO A FEDERAL
JUDGE THAT’S CONGRESS’ DEMAND
FOR THE RETURNS WAS
UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
UNCONSTITUTIONAL. THE STATE SENATE IN NEW YORK
PASSED A BILL THAT WOULD MAKE IT
EASIER FOR CONGRESSIONAL
COMMITTEES TO MAKE IT EASIER TO
LOOK AT RETURNS.
THE CASE BOLSTERED THIS WEEK
THANKS TO REPORTING FROM THE
"NEW YORK TIMES."
THEY FOUND TRUMP RECORDED
$1.17 BILLION IN LOSSES BETWEEN
1985 AND 1994.
FROM THAT PIECE, QUOTE, YEAR
AFTER YEAR MR. TRUMP APPEARS TO
HAVE LOST MORE MONEY THAN NEARLY
ANY OTHER INDIVIDUAL AMERICAN
TAXPAYER.
TAXPAYER. HIS CORE BUSINESS LOSSES IN 1990
AND 1991, MORE THAN 250 MILLION
EACH YEAR, WERE MORE THAN DOUBLE
THOSE OF THE NEAREST TAXPAYERS
IN IRS INFORMATION.
OVERALL, MR. TRUMP LOST SO MUCH
MONEY HE WAS ABLE TO AVOID
PAYING INCOME TAXES FOR EIGHT OF
TEN YEARS.
TEN YEARS. JOINING US CONVERSATION ANNIE
CARP KNEE AND WITH US ON SET
ALEXI McCANNON.
ALEXI McCANNON. MORE AMAZING REPORTING FROM YOUR
TEAM OF INVESTIGATIVE REPORTERS
WHO HAVE BEEN ON THIS STORY.
THE DEVELOPMENT TODAY COMING
FROM THEIR REPORTING IT WOULD
SEEM IN NEW YORK STATE.
WHAT’S SORT OF THE TALK AROUND
THE PROSPECT OF ANY OF THESE
EFFORTS, WHICH ALL SEEM TO BE
CASCADING IN THE SAME DIRECTION
FOR TRANSPARENCY OF DONALD
TRUMP’S TAXES OF CRACKING THAT
OPEN?
OPEN? >> WELL, I DON’T KNOW.
THIS WILL BE A FIGHT HE’LL PLAY
AS LONG AS HE CAN, THE TREASURY
DEPARTMENT MADE IT CLEAR WE’RE
NOT GOING TO SEE HIS RECENT TAX
RETURNS IF THEY HAVE ANYTHING TO
DO WITH IT.
THE IMPACT OF THE EXPOSE GOES TO
THE FUNDAMENTAL MYTH OF DONALD
TRUMP AND THE QUESTION IS, WILL
IT ENRAGE HIM TO HAVE THIS
EMPEROR
EMPEROR EMPEROR’S NO CLOTHES MOMENT
EXPOSED IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES."
WE SAW A LITTLE BIT OF REACTION
TO IT ON TWITTER, BUT HE HASN’T
FULLY COME OUT AND TALKED MORE
EXTENSIVELY ABOUT IT YET.
WILL IT AFFECT VOTERS WHO BOUGHT
INTO A VISION OF A SUCCESSFUL
BUSINESSMAN WHO COULD DO WHAT HE
DID FOR HIS BUSINESS FOR THE
COUNTRY WHEN THAT IS BEING
DEBUNKED IN THE SERIES OF
STORIES SHOWING HE WAS NOT THAT
AT ALL.
AT ALL. WHAT HE WAS WAS A SUCCESSFUL
REALITY STAR AND REBRANDER OF
HIMSELF.
HIMSELF. THAT’S WHAT HE IS.
SO I DON’T KNOW THAT THIS DEEP
DIVE INTO HIS PAST WILL HAVE ANY
AFFECT ON WHAT HE WEWE SEE OF HI
MORE CURRENT TAX RETURNS BUT IT
TELLS US WHAT MIGHT BE IN THERE
AND HIDING, THE KIND OF THINGS
HE’S SCARED OF SHOWING.
>> ALEXI, I THINK ANNIE IS ON
THE RIGHT PART OF THE STORY THAT
ENDURES AND THE RIGHT PIECE OF
IT THAT COULD PUNCH HIM WHERE IT
HURTS.
HURTS. AND THAT IS THAT WE KNOW HE’S
OBSESSED WITH THE SIZE OF
EVERYTHING, THE SIZE OF MY HAND,
THE SIZE OF THE CROWD AT MY
INAUGURATION, NOW IT IS THIS
THING THAT IS ESSENTIAL TO HIM
AS HIS HAIR AND GOD KNOWS WHAT
ELSE.
ELSE. THE SIZE OF HIS BANK ACCOUNT.
THIS REALLY SEEMS LIKE THAT
THING THAT COULD PUT HIM OVER
THE EDGE.
THE EDGE. >> BECAUSE IT SPEAKS TO THE
LEGITIMACY COMPLEX THAT YOU’RE
ELUDING TO.
ELUDING TO. IT MATTERS BECAUSE THE
PRESIDENT’S SUCCESS WHERE HE GOT
TO NOW, IS IN PART BECAUSE OF
THE BUSINESS SUCCESS THAT HE
PORTRAYED HE HAD THROUGHOUT HIS
LIFE.
LIFE. WHEN I’M TALKING TO SWING VOTERS
SOME OF THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL
VOTERS WHO VOTED FOR OBAMA AND
VOTED FOR TRUMP BECAUSE HE
CLAIMED HE WAS A SUCCESSFUL
BUSINESSMAN.
BUSINESSMAN. THAT’S WHO WE SHOULD LOOKING AT,
ARE THEY LOSING FAITH IN DONALD
TRUMP?
TRUMP? ARE THEY STILL ATTRACTED TO
SOMEONE WHO’S A BUSINESSMAN IF
THEY CANNOT PROVE HE’S A
SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN.
SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN. THAT’S WHERE THE STORIES GO, AND
HE HAS TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHO
BELIEVED IN HIM TO TAKE CARE OF
THE COUNTRY HE’S GOING TO BE
ABLE TO DO THAT IN SPITE OF THE
REPORTING THE "NEW YORK TIMES"
HAS ABOUT HIS TAXES.
>> THERE’S SO MANY THINGS YOU
CAN CHALK UP TO STUPID HUMAN
TRICKS.
TRICKS. LIES THAT HE SEEMS TO TELL FOR
NO REASON.
NO REASON. BUT THEN THERE ARE BIG LIES THAT
REALLY DO SEEM TO RIP OFF THE
WHOLE FACADE.
WHOLE FACADE. THIS ONE ABOUT HIS WEALTH.
THERE’S A DEVASTATING SORT OF
LINE IN THERE ABOUT HIS FATHER.
WHILE TRUMP REPORTED HUNDREDS OF
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN LOSSES
FROM 1990 AND 1991.
FRED’S SHOWED A POSITIVE INCOME
OF $53.1 MILLION.
WITH ONLY ONE LOSS, $15 MILLION
IN HIS SON’S BUSINESS.
THIS JUST FEELS PRIMAL.
>> I AGREE WITH ALEXI.
THIS LEGEND THAT TRUMP WAS A
GREAT BUSINESSMAN WAS A PART OF
HIS SUCCESS IN 2016.
I WORKED FOR SECRETARY CLINTON
WE TRIED TO PUNCTURE THAT MYTH
BUT WE HEARD TIME AND AGAIN FROM
VOTERS THIS IS WHY THEY BELIEVE
IN DONALD TRUMP.
WHEN SHE RAISED IT WITH HIM AT
THE DEBATE HE WAS FRUM MOKSED.
THE IDEA THAT HIS FATHER GAVE
HIM MONEY, AND THE CASINO, YOU
GO TO THE CASINO, THE HOUSE
ALWAYS WINS, HE LOST HIS CASINO.
SO IT UNDERMINES HIS CORE
COMPETENCE AS A BUSINESS LEADER.
>> TRUMP HAD FOR A WHILE
ADMITTED THAT HE WAS SEVERELY IN
DEBT.
DEBT. I THINK IT WAS PART OF HIS
BIOGRAPHY THAT HE WAS $8 BILLION
IN DEBT.
IN DEBT. THEY TALKED ABOUT THIS ON THE
APPRENTICE AND HE CAME BACK.
ONE WAY TO PROVE HE CAME BACK IS
TO RELEASE HIS CURRENT TAX
RETURNS BUT HE’S NOT GOING TO DO
IT.
IT. ONE TAKE AWAY WAS THE SHEER SIZE
OF HIS LOSSES, WHICH WERE
INSANE, AND TWO WAS --
>> CAN I PUSH BACK BRIEFLY.
>> LET ME GET NUMBER TWO.
>> NO.
>> NO. LET ME SAY THE ONLY REASON TO
POINT IT OUT, HE DIDN’T HAND
THESE OVER TO THE "NEW YORK
TIMES."
TIMES." THIS IS INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM
BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH IT WAS PART
OF HIS BRAND AND WHAT SOMEONE
WROTE FOR HIM IN "THE ART OF THE
DEAL" NOT CLEAR HE READ THAT
EITHER.
EITHER. HE DIDN’T TELL THAT STORY --
>> THAT GETS TO NUMBER TWO.
>> GO AHEAD.
>> NUMBER TWO, THIS IS THE
ATTACK AD THAT COMES AT YOU, HE
PAID NO INCOME TAXES.
HERE’S A GUY GIVEN SEED MONEY BY
HIS DAD, BAILED OUT BY BANKERS,
LE
LE HE PAID NO INCOME TAXES.
I CAN IMAGINE CLINTON COULD NOT
DO THAT BECAUSE SHE DIDN’T HAVE
THAT INFORMATION, THAT SOMEONE
IN 2020 CAN.
>> I DON’T KNOW IF IT’S
POLITICALLY RELEVANT AT ALL.
WE KNOW HE’S A LOUSY PERSON.
IT DOES STAND OUT IN TEN YEARS
OF TAX RETURNS THERE ARE ZERO
DOLLARS OF ITEMIZED
CONTRIBUTIONS TO CHARITY.
ZERO DOLLARS.
ZERO DOLLARS. THERE ARE A LOT OF HARDWORKING
PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT WORK
HARD --
HARD -- >> THAT’S WHY HE HAD THE
CHARITY.
CHARITY. >> HE BOUGHT A PICTURE OF
HIMSELF, RIGHT?
HIMSELF, RIGHT? ISN’T THAT WHAT HE DID FOR
CHARITY?
CHARITY? WHAT DO YOU THINK THE EFFECT IS
OF THE TAX STORY.
>> IT’S FABULOUS REPORTING BUT
IT’S THE LEAST INTERESTING PART
OF DONALD TRUMP’S TAXES, THE
REASON THE LAST DECADE IS
CONSEQUENTIAL AND THE WHITE
WHALE IS THIS IS THE PERIOD
LEADING UP TO THE ELECTION WHERE
DONALD TRUMP MADE UNUSUAL SERIES
OF CASH PURCHASES OF BAD
PROPERTY AROUND THE WORLD, HE
SPENT ABOUT $600 MILLION IN CASH
BUYING THESE GOLF COURSES THAT
ARE MONEY HOLES.
AND THE QUESTION IS, THAT’S NOT
HOW YOU BUY REAL ESTATE.
THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION’S
EXPLANATION WAS WE HAD SO MUCH
CASH WE DIDN’T NEED TO TAKE OUT
DEBT.
DEBT. SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT WAS
GOING ON THERE.
THIS IS THE QUESTION THAT PEOPLE
LIKE ADAM SCHIFF WANT TO
INVESTIGATE.
INVESTIGATE. THAT’S WHY IT’S THE MOST RECENT
PERIOD OF TAXES YES, IT MIGHT BE
EMBARRASSING TO DONALD TRUMP BUT
I DON’T THINK IT’S NEARLY AS
CONSEQUENTIAL AS THE LAST TEN
YEARS.
YEARS. >> I WON’T INTERRUPT YOU THIS
TIME BUT PICK UP ON THAT --
>> THAT’S OKAY.
>> NO, I SHOULDN’T.
I’M SORRY.
I’M SORRY. PICK UP ON THAT AND IT DOES PUT
THE SPOTLIGHT BACK ON WHAT --
>> IT’S LIKE THERE’S ALL THESE
VERY PECULIAR RELATIONSHIPS WITH
BANKS, LIKE DEUTSCH BANK, FOR
INSTANCE, THE MONEY FLOWING,
HAVING THAT MUCH THAT MUCH
LIQUIDITY IS YEAR.
WHERE THE MONEY WAS GOING AND
WHERE IT WAS COMING FROM NEEDS
TO BE ANSWERED.
THE PROBLEM IS UNLESS SOMETHING
MIRACULOUS HAPPENS WE’RE NOT
GOING TO SEE THE ANSWERS.
THE EFFORTS BY THE HOUSE WAYS
AND MEANS COMMITTEE, WHILE
THEY’D SUCCEED PROBABLY IN THE
COURT OF LAW, DOES NOT MEAN THAT
THE TAX RETURNS WILL BE MADE
PUBLIC.
PUBLIC. SO THE VOTERS IN ALL LIKELIHOOD
WILL BE HEADING INTO THE 2020
ELECTIONS WITH THE SAME LACK OF
KNOWLEDGE OR INSIGHT AS TO
WHAT’S THE UNDERPINNING
FINANCIAL OF DONALD TRUMP MINUS
THE LATE 80s AND EARLY 90s.
>> ANNIE, I WANT TO GIVE YOU ONE
MORE WORD AND ASK YOU TO RESPOND
TO THIS.
TO THIS. OUR FRIEND AARON BLAKE WRITES,
TRUMP IN MANY WAYS BUILT HIS
CAREER BY SUGGESTING THAT THE
LIFE STORY OF HIS POLITICAL
NEMESIS, BARACK OBAMA WAS A
FRAUD.
FRAUD. IT WAS THE BIRTHER STUFF.
THERE IS A PARALLEL HERE TO
TRUMP’S LIFE STORY IS NOW,
THANKS TO YOUR COLLEAGUES’ GREAT
REPORTING, KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN A
FRAUD.
FRAUD. >> I THINK THIS IS ONE THING YOU
HEAR FROM PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT
THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND WHAT IT
WILL LOOK LIKE.
THEY SAY A LOT OF STUFF WITH
TRUMP IS BAKED IN, THE WAY HE
SPEAKS ABOUT WOMEN IS NOT GOING
TO CHANGE WOMEN.
THEY KNOW WHO HE IS AND HIS
SUPPORTERS ACCEPT IT.
THEY LIKE WHAT HE’S DONE ON THE
ECONOMY AND THEY’LL OVERLOOK IT.
BUT STORIES LIKE THIS THAT DELVE
DEEP INTO HIS BACKGROUND, MEAN
THAT YOU KNOW, YOU THINK YOU
KNOW WHO DONALD TRUMP IS, AND IT
TURNS OUT THAT YOU DON’T KNOW
WHO DONALD TRUMP IS, AND IT’S
DIFFERENT.
DIFFERENT. THE QUESTION IS, WILL THIS
CHANGE THAT BAKED IN STUFF.
IN TERMS OF NOT PAYING TAXES FOR
EIGHT OUT OF TEN YEARS, IN THE
PAST WE HEARD HE DIDN’T PAY
TAXES THERE WERE SOME SUPPORTERS
WHO SAID IT MAKES HIM LOOK SMART
THAT HE GOT TO BEAT THE SYSTEM.
ANOTHER VERSION OF THIS, THOUGH,
AS A CANDIDATE IS NOW HE IS THE
SYSTEM, HE IS THE ESTABLISHMENT.
SO THAT’S ANOTHER PROBLEM FOR
HIM RUNNING AS THE ESTABLISHMENT
CANDIDATE NOT THE GUY WHO RAILS
AGAINST THE ESTABLISHMENT THAT
HE WAS ABLE TO BEAT AS A
BUSINESSMAN.
BUSINESSMAN. BUT WE’LL SEE HOW IT AFFECTS
VOTERS’ VIEWS OF HIM, OF WHO
THEY THINK THEY KNOW.
>> INTERESTING LAST POINT HERE.
DONALD TRUMP, WE CAN ALWAYS TELL
WHEN HE’S CAUGHT DOING
SOMETHING, HIS PUSH BACK TO THE