>> Ben, here's what I mainly want to talk to you about. So look, it's that season, so
people continue to have conversations about do you vote for Biden or not, and, Lesser
of two evils, I see it less than I did during the Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump election,
but I still do see it every once in a while.
To me, I just don't see it as a difficult decision at all. I just think okay, Joe Biden's
not nearly progressive enough to still pressure the establishment, will definitely have to
fight it tooth and nail. The mainstream media will gaslight us so the cows come home in
a Biden administration, but he's not going to rip the country to shreds.
>> Right, he's not gonna light the constitution on fire, and we're definitely going to have
another election. So, am I missing anything, or is this a no brainer?
>> It's a no brainer. There's a long list, you've already given a long list, right? But
it goes even longer when you add on COVID-19.
It goes even further when you think about the renaissance of white supremacy that he's
brought back to this country. It's live to fight another day, right? We we have to take
this loss. It is a loss, it is a definitely a loss for progressives, but to see Donald
Trump get four more years that really does not suggest that we have a path forward.
If we think that Donald Trump is a solution to our immediate problem as progressives,
then I'm not really sure if that logic or if that is logical at all.
>> Yeah, theoretically one of the pieces of logic during the Clinton-Trump election was.
Well, if Trump wins, then people will see there are there ways for backing an establishment
candidate like Hillary Clinton, and progressives will be a senator.
Yeah. >> How did that turnout for us? Right, I think
it may have happened in a few congressional seats. But I think that actually could be
credited to tenacity and just fierce determination more than anything else. But in terms of like
the establishment learning their lesson, they don't learn their lesson, right?
They're gonna keep playing this game until they're too old to play the game, and thankfully,
boomers are starting to age out. So there's a dramatic generational shift that's getting
ready to take place, and the last thing that we need to do is to burn down the very institutions
that we can still work through.
>> Yeah and so I think that whether it was Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, AOC, Bowman,
Rasheeda Tlaib and Bush and all those folks would've won anyway. I really don't think
those things are connected at all. Instead what happened was because Trump was such a
madman, and the perfect Boogeyman foil for the establishment.
It actually scared the bejesus out of people until they rush back into the arms of the
establishment. >> Yeah.
>> So it was totally counterproductive. >> Yeah, no it empowered and I think they
raised plenty of money off of Donald Trump. The stakes were too high for people to take
a chance with progress, right?
It was a choice between fascism and the status quo, and they did not wanna take a chance
with Bernie Sanders now. I think that's illogical, because I think Bernie Sanders was the best
chance to beat Donald Trump. But when we talk about the democratic super voters, the one
that turnout in the primaries, they were scared right into the arms of people like Jim Clyburn
and Joe Biden.
>> Yeah, hundred percent and look, here's one other thing that should not be underestimated
or understated. Guys, that we know Donald Trump is deeply racist, and bigoted and anti-semitic
and sexist. And those are not like sometimes establishment use those words around as a
shield or a weapon etc.
But in Donald Trump's case, it's a million percent true. There's no question about it
at all. And as much as I'm bothered by Joe Biden lying about a civil rights era, actions
and it shouldn't have been Biden, it should've been someone who actually did fight for civil
rights.
Bernie Sanders, but it is what it is and that's it, we lost, right?
>> Yeah. >> We tried we lost and so is Biden the same
as Trump? No, Biden's record is spotty and he's done some very uncomfortable things about
his record there in fabricating some potions of his record, very uncomfortable.
But do I think that Biden is a deep seeded racist like Donald Trump? No, so that's kind
of a no-brainer on that front too. >> Yeah, what bothers me about Biden is that
he doesn't want to answer at all for his past, his rather racist past particularly with the
94 crime bill.
However, when we talk about the present, right? When we talk about the present, there's a
dramatic difference between the aging 78-year-old Joe Biden. Who surrounded himself by some
people that I know, some people that I can trust will not allow him to remotely go in
that direction. However, we're dealing also with Donald Trump on the other side, who makes
no qualms about it.
That's his campaign, right? They're not in dog whistling anymore. They're full blown,
outright racists, as well as neoliberals on economic policies. So if you hate neoliberalism,
you get bolt with the republic and public. >> Yeah, you get two for the price of one
in terms of evil and soul crushing with Donald Trump.
So, yeah, for example, if Trump could've gone in a different direction, he's not constitutionally
capable of it. But with the populist rhetoric that he had during the campaign, he could've
done that. He said he was gonna do universal health coverage. Now, I didn't believe him
and we were right now to believe them.
But he could've fought the bankers instead he filled up his cabinet with Goldman Sachs
appointees. And so, he could've been way more populous in a way that would've been hard
to argue against. He could've tried to lower drug price in a way that was real and not
fake.
And boy that would've been hard to deal with right? But he chose not to do any of that.
>> Right. >> So he was as neoliberal as any republican
or any democrat you've ever seen. And so he's justice corrupt even more, he's personally
corrupt and systemically corrupt. So I just I don't see it even one scintilla here.
And one last thing about that, Ben. There is no logical inconsistency, and Biden is
not that good, and we're going to fight him later. But we need them to win now that is
not logically inconsistent. It is perfectly consistent.
>> Yeah, yeah, and I think that was one of the ways.
A lot of people underestimated how bad Donald Trump was going to be. Everything in 2017,
yeah, we figured that 18, yeah, okay by 19 it got a little worse. By the time COVID-19
got around, I think everyone was like holy we cannot tolerate this guy. And so anyone
who's at this point using a 2016 analysis, to understand Donald Trump who has done something
significantly different in 2020 than any other year.
I don't know if they're really up to the emotional task of politics, because it's not a fun game,
you're gonna lose some. And in that losing, you have to reduce the harm.