a recent poll Mass residence show that they prefer rehabilitation over
punishment when it comes to prison sentences
all the talk about this in the ever growing prison population
what can be done about it its best-selling author Scott Christiansen
thank you so much your answer questions and for joining me
so a recent poll that came out that title was ready for reform public
opinion on criminal justice
in Massachusetts pretty astounding numbers that showed
eighty-five percent at mass resident say yes we want reform
number goes even higher when they see other states have lower crime
by focusing on rehab because high numbers we still have a very high
prison population there seems to be a disconnect between what people want in
reality
why is that once again we see that the people are headed the elected
representatives and the prosecutors and the they have a better sense of
what really is needed at this point we have had
several years have a very very punitive system
and it's affected many families many communities and people have seen that is
not cost-effective it really doesn't work
it's counterproductive so increasingly people are calling for
in worry ability to treatment oriented approach
particularly with regard to drugs and the War on Drugs has become increasingly
unpopular
but also for some other offenses as well people are asking why can't we
use more treatment does re have worked as treatment work
treatment works much more than punishment works it's a lot cheaper
but it has to be done right it has to be done with
proper supervision and it's not always going to be successful some people are
going to relapse they're going to
they're going to reset a date and so you have to stick with it
but it certainly is preferable to a straight
punitive approach and there is a huge body of research
showing this fact the National Institute of Corrections for example has been in
existence for
many many years they have thousands of studies showing this we know what works
we know what kinds of treatment programs are effective
but we've lacked the political will to pursue that
why why have we lacked the political allies it so easy for politicians
to beat their chest and say we need to be tough on crime
let's create a new law in a min after some victim
and increase the penalties because we we need to be tough on crime
we've been hearing this first for over 30 years and it's produced
a situation in the united states where we are far and away the world's leader
incarceration and it's going too far
speaking up numbers frontline on PBS has been doing some documentaries looking at
the prison population from 73 2009
the prison population grew from 200,000 to approximately 2.2 million
I think this correlates with the same the war on drugs
but should all those people be imprisoned is the bigger question now
because it
is a huge economic strain on
a county state country and also it affects
almost a disproportionate number have people
let's break that down a little bit you mention the war on drugs in it he really
did start in earnest with the rockefeller
drug laws in the early nineteen seventies when penalties work greatly
greatly increase in other states followed
along those lines so we've had a war on drugs that has driven
the increase to the prison population to a large extent we've got above that
figure you mentioned we've got over 250,000 people
who are in prison for drug related offenses so it doesn't explain
everything that's been going on the War on Drugs has only been part
have what's been happening for all offenses across-the-board we've been
putting more and more people into prison for longer and longer
periods of time and now we have a situation with regard to drugs
were many people particularly
libertarians are saying we should end the war in
drugs and we won't have a drug problem guess what
we do have a drug problem drugs are creating havoc
in our society but that doesn't necessarily mean
we have to take punitive approach is strictly punitive approach
rather we need to initiate more treatment
for that drug problem and more prevention
and and use our brains to try to deal with the problem
not just to let people out a president say that's the end of the problem
because
that won't double not solve it so technically
when a person break the law they deserve punishment
but perhaps the bigger issues the fact that these laws shouldn't be
in place in the first place is that would you say the big your argument
because you can't really advocate well even though it's against the law
you know it's okay should have to go to prison so it's almost as if we've got a
back up another seven say the laws need to be changed so that
by a minor drug offenses or you doing so low-level nonviolent crimes you're not
spending
so much time in prison so it's our
when people break the law they need to be held accountable then you do accept
responsibility for what they've done
the harm that they've impose on other people
and they they need to to really make good in some way to try to repair that
wrong that doesn't simply mean that they need to be punished that
they need to accept responsibility in some cases they need to do community
service in some cases they need to address
the underlying problems that led them to commit that act to begin with such as
their
addiction for example so there are many things that need to be done and they
need to be done more on an individual basis
not simply a one-size-fits-all basis
so talking now about the M
the drug offenses and sometimes people are spending a whole lot of time in
prison for
low-level drug offenses are even low-level
crimes in Massachusetts the juvenile life in prison without parole that's a
huge possibility or that's a huge
that's a huge thing happening that many other states don't have some states to
buy some states don't have
but talk about the a guess the implications are that
well the United States Supreme Court ruled the year and a half ago that
it was not constitutional four states such as Massachusetts and many others
to impose mandatory life imprisonment without parole
for certain juvenile murderers
and it it is now left to the discretion
love the court above a judge to determine
how long a sentence should be for somebody who commits they're kinda very
very
serious act we've had a movement over the last 25 or 30 years in this country
I in which some people have been saying if if a kid commits
an adult crime they need to be treated as an adult
and this is spawned a whole series of
love very punitive measures including life imprisonment without parole
I believe that if a juvenile commits a crime they need to be treated as a
juvenile and they need to
be dealt with but not treated as an adult in the most draconian fashion
by subjecting them to life imprisonment without parole
much less mandatory life in prison without parole
I actually think that life without parole across-the-board
is not a very good policy it may be necessary in some individual cases
but it certainly is not right to give it out to the extent it's been given out
in Massachusetts in other states now
you said that the Majlis is law which is were the three strikes law sometimes
commonly known as for on
have it will repeat violent felonies is more about political
ploy been really trying to you pics
a problem wide use it as a political ploy
over twenty years ago the state of california enacted
three strikes and you're out laws and
we've had a long period of time to see with the impact has been it's been a
disaster
in California and other states that have adopted that approach
and it's very disheartening to see this approach being
revived in Massachusetts through mullis's law
Massachusetts and other northeastern states
really are at the bottom above the
the line in terms of the use of incarceration in the United States to
our credit
we still greatly overuse imprisonment but we are nowhere
near Island the users of incarceration that you find in
louisiana George another southern states where the rate
maybe 78 ten times greater than it is here in Massachusetts
so we should be smarter than resorting to
two approaches such as Melissa slaw we seemingly
are going backward rather than ford when we adopt this field approach
buddy who argues that okay a first-time offense second-hand offense but
when somebody it officially a repeatedly
committing violent crimes they can't be rehabbed
do you do you give any credits do you believe that are deeply that there's a
possibility for everybody
to be had I guess we find that balance I think an individual decision needs to be
made preferably by a parole board
trained professionals to evaluate
each case on an individual basis and determine
whether what you're suggesting is true or not true
him but adopting a one size fits all kind of approach
are really is is overkill and it's not necessary
and there are many instances where people have repeatedly
committed crime when they were younger perhaps because of their addiction
for example for other reasons and
a we should know that for all time
condemn them to incarceration based on their prior
mistakes they've already paid the price for those prior crimes
and that doesn't mean that we should penalize them yet again
so severely if they commit another one now
wrapping up they're two different factors economic factor in the society
factor
economically in most states corrections spending is third after Medicaid and
education
so it's the big count got a few other the wallet above the average taxpayer
now society factor sixty percent a
inmates are either black or Hispanic and black 135 without a diploma or more
likely to be in jail and working
to talk about how this is really affecting
every corner of our society and do you feel that
it will change it has been changing would in the wrong direction
over the years which is very very sad in
addition to the the impact that has on the black community in on this panic
community
it really has an effect on our society on the way our country is viewed
on ours our own sense of justice and injustice
in our society and of course much this is a product of growing
arm inequality within society in and lessening opportunities economic
an otherwise and we have to address those things that are contributing to
incarceration
we also have to face the fact that in many instances
the criminal justice system does discriminate
at each and every step of the process
every stage in the criminal justice system to some extent
there is measurable discrimination against minorities it is not that
minorities are more criminal than others it is not that
blacks use drugs more than whites in fact whites use drug more than blacks
but it is people have caller who are disproportionately
paying the price in the form of incarceration
and that's wrong it seems that there's definitely a lot more this is just some
sure the tip of the iceberg a harsher conversation it seems like there's
much more deeper conversation need to happen about this
thanks for bringing up important stuff