THE SEGUE BEFORE YOU HAD A
CHANCE TO OPINE, JOE.
>> WE HAVE A LOT TO TALK ABOUT.
WHY DON'T WE BEGIN.
>> WE SURE DID.
TOP HEADLINES, HORRIFIC IMAGES
ARE EMERGING OF WHAT RUSSIAN
FORCES LEFT BEHIND AFTER PULLING
BACK FROM THE UKRAINIAN CAPITAL
OF KYIV.
WE WANT TO WARN YOU THE IMAGES
ARE DISTURBING AND GRAPHIC BUT
IT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW.
THE PICTURES AND VIDEOS ARE FROM
THE TOWN OF BUCHA NORTHWEST OF
THE CAPITAL.
THEY SHOW WIDESPREAD DEVASTATION
WITH DOZENS OF BODIES LYING
SCATTERED AROUND THE CITY.
SOME OF THE VICTIMS HAD THEIR
HANDS TIED BEHIND THEIR BACKS,
OTHERS REPORTEDLY HAD CLOSE
RANGE GUNSHOT WOUNDS AND SIGNS
OF TORTURE.
RESIDENTS SAY RUSSIANS WOULD GO
FROM BUILDING TO BUILDING, TAKE
PEOPLE FROM THE BASEMENTS WHERE
THEY WERE HIDING, CHECK THEIR
PHONES FOR EVIDENCE OF
ANTI-RUSSIAN ACTIVITY BEFORE
TAKING THEM AWAY OR SHOOTING
THEM.
ACCORDING TO THE CITY'S MAYOR,
AROUND 270 LOCAL RESIDENTS WERE
BURIED IN TWO MASS GRAVES AND AT
LEAST 40 DEAD BODIES WERE LEFT
IN THE STREETS.
UKRAINIAN OFFICIALS SAY MORE
THAN 400 BODIES HAVE BEEN FOUND
IN KYIV AND IN THE SURROUNDING
AREAS.
WILLIE.
>> UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY
IS CALLING THIS GENOCIDE,
DESCRIBING IT AS SCENES FROM A
HORROR MOVIE.
PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY RELEASING A
MESSAGE ON SOCIAL MEDIA ABOUT
BUCHA, SPEAKING IN RUSSIAN, HE
SAID, QUOTE, I WANT EVERY MOTHER
OF EVERY RUSSIAN SOLDIER TO SEE
THE BODIES OF THE KILLED PEOPLE
IN BUCHA, IN IRPIN, IN HOSTOMEL.
WHAT DID THEY DO?
WHY WERE THEY KILLED?
WHAT DID THE MAN RIDING HIS
BICYCLE DOWN THE STREET DO?
WHY WERE ORDINARY CIVILIANS
TORTURED TOGETHER IN AN
ORDINARY, PEACEFUL CITY?
WHY WERE WOMEN STRANGLED AFTER
THEIR EARRINGS WERE TORN OUT OF
THEIR EARS?
HOW COULD WOMEN BE RAPED AND
KILLED IN FRONT OF THE CHILDREN?
HE WENT ON, THEIR BODIES WERE
MOCKED EVEN AFTER THE DEATH.
WHY DID THEY CRUSH THE BODIES OF
PEOPLE WITH TANKS?
WHAT DID THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE OF
BUCHA DO TO YOUR RUSSIA.
RUSSIAN MOTHERS, HE SAID, EVEN
IF YOU RAISED MEAGHER AUDERS,
HOW DID THEY ALSO BECOME EX
KUSHIERS.
YOU COULDN'T HELP BUT KNOW WHAT
IS INSIDE YOUR CHILDREN.
YOU COULD NOT HELP BUT NOTICE
THAT THEY ARE DEPRIVED OF EEFRG
HUMAN.
NO SOUL.
NO HEART.
THEY KILLED DELIBERATELY AND
WITH PLEASURE, END QUOTE.
PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.
>> REALLY STRONG WORDS.
MIKE, THE WORLD IS RESPONDING.
HERE IS THE "NEW YORK POST"
TALKING ABOUT GENOCIDE.
" THE WALL STREET JOURNAL"
REPORTS OF ATROCITIES, OUTRAGE.
"THE TIMES" TALKING ABOUT IT.
WE SAW ONE OF THE BEST HEADLINES
I HAVE SEEN WE JUST PUT UP
THERE.
WORSE THAN ISIS.
WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE IS WORSE
THAN WHAT ISIS DID.
YOU KNOW, MIKE, A FEW WEEKS AGO
JOE BIDEN PEOPLE WERE ATTACKING
JOE BIDEN FOR CALLING PUTIN A
WAR CRIMINAL AND THEN FOR
SAYING -- AND A BUTCHER AND
SAYING THAT PUTIN MUG.
I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE
DIPLOMATIC NICETIES WE HAVE TO
BE CAREFUL OF, TRYING TO FIND AN
OFF RAMP FOR THIS, BUT I'M NOT
SURE WHAT OTHER WORDS HIT HIM.
>> THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES WAS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT
WHEN HE DESCRIBED VLADIMIR PUTIN
AS A WAR CRIMINAL AND A BUTCHER.
HE WAS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT WHEN
HE STATED EARLY ON THAT HE
THOUGHT THAT RUSSIA WOULD INVADE
UKRAINE.
IT WAS ALL RUSSIA WOULD INVADE
UKRAINE.
HE WAS RIGHT.
MY QUESTION TO YOU, RICHARD
HAASS, GIVEN WHAT WE HAVE SEEN,
GIVEN THE EVIDENCE THAT'S BEEN
RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF THE
WORLD'S FACE, HOW IS IT THAT
RUSSIA IS ALLOWED TO REMAIN AS
ONE OF THE 15 MEMBERS OF THE
UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL?
>> LOOK, THE UNITED NATIONS AND
THE SECURITY COUNCIL WAS CREATED
AS A PLACE TO TALK ABOUT PEACE,
AND PARTICULARLY AMONG AND
BETWEEN THE GREAT POWERS.
IT WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE USED BY
ONE AGAINST OTHERS.
THIS WAS SIMPLY THE DNA OF THE
INSTITUTION.
IT IS ALSO THE WEAKNESS OF IT.
WHEN ONE OF THE GREAT POWERS, IN
THIS CASE RUSSIA, IS IN THE DOCK
THE ORGANIZATION IS FECKLESS.
WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS WORK
AROUND IT.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THIS INFORMAL
COALITION BEGINNING WITH NATO
BUT OTHER COUNTRIES THAT ARE
DOING THE SANCTIONS, THAT ARE
DOING THE MILITARY SUPPORT FOR
UKRAINE.
WOULD BE DAY, GOD WILLING, WE'LL
REBUILD UKRAINE, WE WILL DEAL
WITH WAR CRIMINALITY, WE WILL
DEAL WITH REPARATIONS AND ALL OF
THAT.
BUT THE U.N.
THE SECURITY COUNCIL WILL BE
SOMETHING THAT WILL BE
IRRELEVANT OR AN OBSTACLE.
>> USELESS.
>> IT IS USELESS.
LOOK, IT WAS USELESS DURING THE
BALANCE CAN
BALKAN WARS.
DURING THE KOREAN WAR,
INTERESTING ENOUGH, THE RUSSIANS
WERE BOYCOTTING.
WE WENT TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY,
GOT A UNITED AFTER THE INVASION
OF 1950.
IT WAS A WORK AROUND THE
SECURITY COUNCIL.
THAT'S THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED
NATIONS WHEN A MAJOR POWER, LIKE
CHINA NOW, THE UIGHURS OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU CAN'T
HAVE A SERIOUS CONVERSATION IN
THE SECURITY COUNCIL.
THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKS.
>> WHAT CAN BE DONE IN THE
GENERAL ASSEMBLY?
CAN YOU GO TO THE GENERAL
ASSEMBLY AND SET UP THE SAFE
ZONES LIKE WE DID IN SIR KAU?
IT WAS SUGGESTED WE DO THAT.
A COUPLE OF PEOPLE PUSHED BACK
SAYING IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.
>> ONE, I'M NOT CLEAR YOU HAVE
THE VOTES.
>> IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY?
>> YES, LOOK AT HOW MUCH OF THE
WORLD IS SITTING ON ITS
COLLECTIVE HANDS.
THERE'S TWO INTERESTING
QUESTIONS, WHETHER THIS MOVES
THE REST OF THE WORLD, MORE THAN
250 COUNTRIES SOUTH OF THE
SAHARA, SECOND OF ALL, DOES IT
GET THE EUROPEANS, PARTICULARLY
THE GERMANS TO SAY IT IS GOING
TO TAKE THREE YEARS TO GET OFF
OUR THIRST FOR RUSSIAN GAS AND
IF WE DO SOMETHING FASTER IT
WILL HURT OUR ECONOMIC GROWTH.
MAYBE THE TIME HAS COME TO
ACCELERATE THAT AND PAY A PRICE.
LOOK AT THE PRICE THE PEOPLE OF
UKRAINE ARE PAYING.
WHY COULDN'T THE PEOPLE OF
EUROPE PAY A PRICE, TOO.
>> WHY WOULD ANYBODY BE AGAINST
A HUMANITARIAN ZONE IN THE
WESTERN PART OF THE COUNTRY?
>> THE QUESTION WILL BE WHO WILL
PATROL IT, HOW IT WILL BE DONE.
LOOK, MILITARILY THESE ARE
COMPLICATED THINGS.
I THINK WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
MORE THAN A HUMANITARIAN ZONE IN
THE WEST.
I DON'T THINK THE PROBLEM HERE,
BY THE WAY, IS YOUNG RUSSIAN
SOLDIERS ACTING WITHOUT
DISCIPLINE.
WHAT MIKA DESCRIBED, THE IDEA OF
THE VIDEOING AND SO FORTH, THIS
SUGGESTS TO ME SOMEWHERE AN
ORDER HAS COME.
SOMEWHERE THEY HAVE SAID, WE
HAVE GOT TO TERRORIZE THE PEOPLE
OF UKRAINE IN ORDER TO BREAK
THEIR WILL, IN ORDER TO DEPOP
LATE THEIR CITIES.
>> EXACTLY.
>> THIS IS NOT UNDISCIPLINED
CONSCRIPTS.
THIS IS SOMETHING MORE.
>> BY THE WAY, WE WOULD LOVE
TO -- I THINK IT MAY BE
COMFORTING TO PUT IT ALL ON
VLADIMIR PUTIN.
I THINK ZELENSKYY ASKS THE RIGHT
QUESTION OF RUSSIAN MOTHERS AND
ASKS THE RIGHT QUESTIONS OF THE
RUSSIAN SOLDIERS.
THIS IS WHAT RUSSIA DID IN
ALEPPO.
THIS IS WHAT RUSSIA DID IN
CHECHNYA.
BY THE WAY, IT IS NOT EVEN JUST
PUTIN.
THIS IS WHAT STALIN DID.
YOU LOOK AT THE MASSACRE, THEY
SYSTEMATICALLY EXECUTED IN 1940,
SYSTEMATICALLY LINED UP AND
EXECUTED 22,000 POLISH OFFICERS,
JUST LINED THEM UP AND KEPT
SHOOTING THEM DEAD UNTIL THEY
KILLED 22,000.
THIS IS WHAT RUSSIA DOES, AND WE
KEEP HOPING FOR A NEW RUSSIA.
>> RIGHT.
>> THAT'S OBVIOUSLY NEVER GOING
TO HAPPEN THOUGH AS LONG AS
VLADIMIR PUTIN IS WHERE HE IS
AND AS LONG AS THE ATTITUDES
THAT OBVIOUSLY ARE PUTTING HIM,
APPROVAL RATINGS AT 65 PERCENT
IN HIS OWN COUNTRY, CHANGE.
>> I DON'T THINK THERE'S
ANYBODY -- THERE'S NOTHING
SURPRISING ABOUT THIS.
THERE'S BEEN NOTHING SURPRISING
ABOUT IT.
HE HAS BEEN A WAR CRIMINAL FOR A
LONG TIME.
HE USED CHEMICAL WEAPONS IN
ALEPPO, IN GROZNY.
ANYBODY WHO HAS BEEN A STUDENT
OF PUTIN FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS
WOULD HAVE SAID IT IS WHOLLY
PREDICTABLE.
YET AS RICHARD KNOWS AND
EVERYBODY KNOWS, IT IS
INCREDIBLE TO SEE FIRST GEORGE
W. BUSH, I LOOKED INTO PUTIN'S
SOUL.
THEN YOU ARE BARACK OBAMA, ALSO
A LIGHT TOUCH ON HIM.
DONALD TRUMP OBVIOUSLY THE MOST
EGREGIOUS.
AND THEN WE GET MAD AT JOE BIDEN
FOR BEING THE ONLY ONE IN THAT
SPRING TO SAY SOMETHING, WHICH
YOU GUYS WERE SAYING, WHICH IS
OBVIOUSLY TRUE.
>> HONEST.
>> ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE
CORRECT.
HE'S THE FIRST AMERICAN
PRESIDENT OF THE CENTURY.
>> IN 20 YEARS.
>> TO ADDRESS VLADIMIR PUTIN AND
CALLED IT AS HE SAW IT WITH
PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A
LITTLE CHINA, BUT IN THE END THE
MORAL CLARITY WAS THE RIGHT
PLACE TO BE BUT I THINK IT
RAISED --
>> SOMETHING THAT HASN'T BEEN
TRIED.
>> BUT IT RAISES THE QUESTION,
WHICH IS OFTEN FROM THE
BEGINNING OF THE WAR UNTIL NOW
WE SAID WHAT WILL HAPPEN AS THIS
WAR PROGRESSES, IT WILL GET
WORSE.
AS IT GETS WORSE THE PRESSURE TO
DO MORE WILL RATCHET UP.
THE QUESTION AT THIS POINT FOR
JOE BIDEN, FOR THE WEST BROADLY,
BUT JOE BIDEN IS THE LEADER OF
THE WEST, RIGHT?
BUT ONCE YOU HAVE CALLED HIM A
BUTCHER AND BASICALLY SAID HE
MUG, YOU ARE
MUST GO, AND THERE ARE STILL
CHEMICAL WEAPONS THAT COULD BE
USED ON ANY GIVEN DAY, WHAT DO
WE WANT JOE BIDEN TO DO ABOUT
IT?
>> THERE ARE CHEMICAL WEAPONS,
TACTICAL NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
THERE'S A CERTAIN PERSON I SAW
ON TV SAYING WE DON'T NEED TO
WORRY ABOUT VLADIMIR PUTIN USING
NUCLEAR CLEE WEAPONS.
WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT VLADIMIR
PUTIN USING NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
WE CAN HOLD TWO OPPOSITE
THOUGHTS IN OUR MIND, TWO
COMPETING THOUGHTS IN OUR MIND.
ONE, HE IS A WAR CRIMINAL.
TWO, HE HAS MORE NUCLEAR WEAPONS
THAN ANYBODY ELSE, AND HE
WILL -- LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN
FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T THINK THAT
THIS GUY IS CAPABLE OF DOING
WHAT HE IS DOING IN UKRAINE,
WON'T USE TACTICAL NUCLEAR
WEAPONS IF HE FEELS TOO FAR
BACKED INTO A CORNER.
THIS IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO
DEAL WITH.
OF COURSE HE IS EVIL.
HE IS THE EVIL EMPIRE CONTINUES.
HE ALSO HAS NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
AS WE TALK ABOUT THE MASS
ATROCITIES, WE HAVE TO FIGURE
OUT, STILL TALK ABOUT HOW DO WE
GET BEYOND THIS WAR.
CHANCES ARE VERY GOOD UNLESS THE
RUSSIAN PEOPLE DECIDE TO PUT
PUTIN OUT OF POWER, WHICH I
DON'T THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN,
VLADIMIR PUTIN STILL WILL BE IN
POWER IN 2023, 2024.
WE WILL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW
TO DEAL WITH THESE TWO COMPETING
REALITIES.
>> WELL, I MEAN LAST WEEK, YOU
KNOW, WE HAD REPORTS OF AN
INTERNAL POLL IN RUSSIA THAT
SHOWED VLADIMIR PUTIN'S
POPULARITY HAS SOARED.
IT IS UP TO 86% IN THAT COUNTRY.
PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS SAID
PUBLICLY THAT HE MEETING WITH
PUTIN TOLD HIM THAT HE THOUGHT
HE HAD NO SOUL AND THAT PUTIN
REPLIED TO HIM, WELL, AT LEAST
WE UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER.
HE CLEARLY DOES NOT HAVE A SOUL.
I THINK THE LARGER ISSUE HERE --
>> ALSO, FOR HIM, UNFORTUNATELY,
HE DOESN'T HAVE AN ARMY.
>> THAT IS TRUE.
>> NOT A FUNCTIONING ARMY.
>> THAT IS TRUE.
THEY PROVE IT EVERY HOUR OF EACH
AND EVERY DAY.
THE LARGER ISSUE HERE MIGHT BE
WELL BE IN TERMS OF WINDING DOWN
THIS WAR, HOPEFULLY IT CAN BE
DONE SOONER RATHER THAN LATER,
WHAT DO YOU DO WITH
NEGOTIATIONS?
DO YOU GIVE UP?
DO YOU CEDE AN INCH OF TERRITORY
TO THE RUSSIANS AFTER THIS?