THE ANTI-TRUMP IS THE ONE TO
WATCH FOR 2024.
>> ALL RIGHT.
REVEREND AL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
AND MATT LEWIS, THANK YOU, AS
WELL.
NOW TO THE INSIDE STORY OF ONE
OF THE MOST POWERFUL WOMEN IN
AMERICAN POLITICAL HISTORY.
JOINING US NOW, WASHINGTON
BUREAU CHIEF FOR "USA TODAY,"
SUSAN PAGE.
SHES THE AUTHOR OF THE NEW
BOOK, "MADAME SPEAKER: NANCY
PELOSI AND THE LESSONS OF
POWER."
SUSAN, CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS
BOOK.
I CANT IMAGINE WHAT A PLEASURE
IT MUST HAVE BEEN TO BE WORKING
ON THIS.
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE KEY STORIES
OR POINTS ABOUT SPEAKER PELOSI
THAT SURPRISED EVEN YOU WHEN YOU
WERE WORKING ON THIS?
>> YOU KNOW, MIKA, ONE THING
THAT SURPRISED ME WAS, OF
COURSE, WE KNOW THAT SHES THE
DAUGHTER OF A LEGENDARY
POLITICAL FIGURE IN BALTIMORE,
THEY WERE AS PROMINENT AS THE
KENNEDYS OF BOSTON WHEN NANCY
DALESANDRO WAS BORN.
BUT ONE THING THAT SURPRISED ME
WAS THE INFLUENCE OF HER MOTHER.
HER MOTHER WAS NAME BIG NANCY.
SHE WAS KNOWN AS LITTLE NANCY, A
NICKNAME SHE DIDNT GET AWAY
FROM UNTIL SHE WENT TO COLLEGE.
HER MOTHER WAS A RESTLESS,
AMBITIOUS, CURIOUS
ENTREPRENEURIAL, RISK-TAKING
FIGURE AHEAD OF HER TIME.
NANCY PELOSI TOLD ME, IF HER
MOTHER WAS BORN TODAY, SHE WOULD
BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES.
SO THE INFLUENCE OF HER MOM WAS,
I THINK, ONE OF THE MOST
INTERESTING THINGS THAT I HAVE
DISCOVERED.
>> YEAH, AND ITS ---ION, PEOPLE
OFTEN THINK THIS IS BECAUSE OF
HER HERITAGE, ESPECIALLY, THAT
SHE WAS ALWAYS IN POLITICS.
BUT SHE HAD A WHOLE LIFE, AND I
BELIEVE, FIVE KIDS, BEFORE SHE
ENTERED POLITICS.
>> YEAH, THATS RIGHT.
AND SHE SAID THAT HAVING FIVE
KIDS, RAISING THEM, WHICH SHE
DID BEFORE SHE GOT INTO ELECTED
OFFICE, WAS THE BEST POSSIBLE
TRAINING FOR BEING SPEAKER OF
THE HOUSE.
MOTHER OF FIVE KIDS, SO YOURE
DEALING WITH CHAOS, YOURE
TRYING TO DEAL WITH GRIEVANCES
REAL AND IMAGINED.
YOURE DEALING WITH SHIFTING
ALLIANCES WITHIN THE FAMILY ALL
THE TIME.
AND SHE SAYS THIS TO WOMAN TO
WHOM SHE TRIES TO RECRUIT TO RUN
FOR OFFICE.
SOMETIMES WOMEN SAY, IM NOT
QUALIFIED, IM JUST A HOMEMAKER.
AND SHE SAID, THAT WAS WHAT
TAUGHT HER THE SKILLS THAT SHE
HAS APPLIED IN THIS REMARKABLE,
HISTORIC CAREER AS THE LEADER OF
HOUSE DEMOCRATS.
>> THATS SO FUNNY.
ELISE JORDAN, JUMP IN.
>> OVER THE COURSE OF
RESEARCHING YOUR BOOK, WHAT WAS
THE MOST SURPRISING THING THAT
YOU LEARNED ABOUT SPEAKER
PELOSI?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, TO THINK
ABOUT HER RELATIONSHIP WITH
DONALD TRUMP, ONE THING I FOUND
WAS THAT SHE HAD ACTUALLY
INTENDED TO RETIRE AFTER THE
2016 ELECTION.
SHE ASSUMED, LIKE A LOT OF US,
THAT HILLARY CLINTON WAS GOING
TO BE ELECTED PRESIDENT, HILLARY
CLINTON WOULD PROTECT THE
AFFORDABLE CARE ACT AND OTHER
DEMOCRATIC PRIORITIES.
SHE COULD STEP AWAY.
SO ELECTION NIGHT, 2016, SHE
SEES THAT DONALD TRUMP IS
WINNING THE PRESIDENCY.
SHE SAYS, IT WAS LIKE THE KICK
OF A MULE, THE PHYSICAL KICK OF
A MULE, IT MADE HER CHANGE HER
PLANS ON THE SPOT.
SHE DECIDED TO STAY IN AND OF
COURSE SHE BECAME THE FACE OF
THE DEMOCRATIC OPPOSITION TO
DONALD TRUMP FOR THE NEXT FOUR
YEARS.
>> JONATHAN LEMIRE?
>> SUSAN, COP GRATS ON THE BOOKN
YOU CERTAINLY NAILED IT RIGHT
THERE, WHEN HILLARY CLINTON
LOST, NANCY PELOSI BECAME DONALD
TRUMPS FOIL WHEN HE WAS IN
OFFICE TO GREAT SUCCESS.
I WANT TO GIVE YOU A PITCH
FORWARD.
OBVIOUSLY WAS NOW, DEMOCRATS
HAVE THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE
SENATE AND NANCY PELOSI IS STILL
SPEAKER.
WHATS YOUR PERCEPTION, WHATS
YOUR REPORTING TELL YOU THAT
YOUVE TALKED TO SO MANY PEOPLE
CLOSE TO THE SPEAKER ABOUT
WHATS NEXT FOR HER IN TERMS OF
HOW SHE VIEWS THIS, WHAT COULD
BE PERHAPS HER FINAL TERM AS
SPEAKER.
HOW SHE VIEWS THIS AS SORT OF A
CODA TO WHAT HAS BEEN SUCH A
REMARKABLE CAREER.
>> OF COURSE, SHES DEALT WITH A
SERIES OF PRESIDENTS.
SOME IN BATTLES LIKE DONALD
TRUMP, SOME IN ALLIANCES LIKE
BARACK OBAMA.
BUT THERE HAS BEEN NO PRESIDENT
SHE IS CLOSER TO THAN JOE BIDEN.
SHE TOLD ME IN AN INTERVIEW LAST
WEEK THAT HE WILL BE A
TRANSFORMATIVE PRESIDENT.
HE SAYS HIS EXPERIENCE ON
CAPITOL HILL IS SO DEEP THAT
THEY CAN SPEAK IN SHORTHAND.
BUT I AGREE, I THINK THIS IS
LIKELY TO BE HER LAST TERM IN
CONGRESS AS THE LEADER OF HOUSE
DEMOCRATS.
SHE IS READY TO STEP BACK ONCE
AGAIN AS SHE HAD PLANNED TO DO
YEARS AGO.
YOU KNOW, SHE IS 81 YEARS OLD.
AND IN ANY OTHER WORKPLACE THAN
CONGRESS, THAT WOULD BE A
NATURAL RETIREMENT AGE.
>> THE NEW BOOK IS "MADAM
SPEAKER: NANCY PELOSI AND THE