MCC.
NEIL: ALL RIGHT.
RICK, THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH.
RICK LEVENTHAL.
>>> BERNIE MADOFF, REMEMBER HIM?
THE PONZI SCHEME ARTIST
EXTRAORDINAIRE?
HE WAS THROWN IN JAIL FOR THE
BETTER PART OF 150 YEARS.
HE WANTS THAT SENTENCE REDUCED,
SOME HELP FROM THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES.
NO WORD WHAT THE WHITE HOUSE IS
GOING TO DO.
NO WORD HOW LONG THIS REQUEST
HAS BEEN IN THERE.
FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
OFFICIAL JAMES TRUSTY.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.
>> YOU, TOO.
NEIL: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?
>> I THINK BERNIE'S GOING TO
NEED ABOUT TEN KIM KARDASHIANS
TO MAKE THIS WORK.
I DON'T REALLY SEE HIM AS BEING
THE POSTER CHILD FOR CRIMINAL
JUSTICE REFORM.
THERE'S A LOT OF BIPARTISAN
APPROACHES RIGHT NOW TO TRY TO
LESSEN SOME OF THE FEDERAL
SENTENCING GUIDELINES, TO TRY TO
HELP SOME PEOPLE OUT THAT ARE
NON-VIOLENT OFFENDERS BUT BERNIE
IS LITERALLY THE POSTER CHILD
FOR DECEPTION AND FRAUD, AND
VICTIMIZATION, MASS
VICTIMIZATION.
SO I THINK HIS CHANCES ARE
PRETTY REMOTE.
NEIL: THAT'S A PASS, RIGHT?
>> MAY BE THREE OR FOUR.
NEIL: LET'S GO TO SOMETHING
SEPARATE.
ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR ORDERED
THE REINSTATEMENT OF THE FEDERAL
DEATH PENALTY FOR THE FIRST TIME
I GUESS IN 20 YEARS.
WHAT WILL THAT MEAN?
CAN HE JUST ISSUE THAT ON HIS
OWN?
>> WHAT'S HAPPENED IS REALLY
KIND OF A POCKET VETO.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS
RESPONSIBLE FOR SOMETHING CALLED
THE CAPITAL PROCEDURE PROTOCOL
OR DEATH PENALTY PROTOCOL.
REALLY, WHAT IT'S BEEN HELD UP
WITH FOR YEARS IS THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL HAS TO DESIGNATE
ESSENTIALLY THE COCKTAIL OF
DRUGS THAT ARE GOING TO BE USED
TO CARRY OUT EXECUTIONS.
THAT'S BEEN A REAL LITIGIOUS
AREAS WHERE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS
AND EVEN COMPANIES HAVE STOPPED
DISTRIBUTING CERTAIN TYPES OF
DRUGS USED FOR FEDERAL
EXECUTIONS.
THERE'S BEEN ALL THIS KIND OF
SCIENCE-BASED FIGHTING ABOUT
WHETHER PEOPLE FEEL PAIN AND
SUFFERING, WHETHER THIS
MANUFACTURER CAN DISTRIBUTE THE
DRUG IN THE UNITED STATES.
THAT HAS ALL SOMEWHAT CLEARED
UP, AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS
JUST ISSUED THIS PAPERWORK THAT
BASICALLY SAYS WE CAN GO BACK TO
DOING EXECUTIONS.
NOW, I DON'T EXPECT HUNDREDS OR
DOZENS OR ANY HUGE NUMBER BUT IT
IS SOMETHING THAT LITERALLY WAS
SAT ON BY TWO PRECEDING ATTORNEY
GENERALS WITH INACTION.
THEY JUST REFUSED TO TOUCH IT
WHICH EFFECTIVELY SHUT DOWN THE
DEATH PENALTY.
NEIL: BUT VARIOUS STATES HAVE
DEATH PENALTIES, RIGHT?
>> STATES ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE
AND THEY CHANGE, BUT FEDERALLY
THERE'S BEEN A DEATH PENALTY FOR
SOME TIME.
YOU HAVE TO WORK HARD TO GET THE
DEATH PENALTY IN THE FEDERAL
SYSTEM.
IT'S THE BOSTON MARATHON
BOMBERS, THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
ONE TYPE GUYS.
THE FIVE THAT WILL BE THE FIRST
IN THE CUE, SO TO SPEAK, ARE IF
YOU LOOK AT THE UNDERLYING
FACTS, THEY ARE HORRIFIC.
WHATEVER YOUR FEELINGS ARE ABOUT
DEATH PENALTY VERSUS LIFE IN
PRISON, THESE ARE GUYS THAT
KILLED CHILDREN, THAT KILLED
PEOPLE IN VERY BRUTAL WAYS,
KILLED ELDERLY, KILLED
WITNESSES.
THEY REALLY KIND OF TOUCHED THE
NERVE OF WHY YOU MIGHT WANT TO
HAVE A DEATH PENALTY.
NLD
NEIL: LET ME SWITCH GEARS WHILE
I HAVE YOU HERE.
YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE WHOLE
MUELLER THING YESTERDAY.
>> WELL, LOOK, I DON'T GET ANY
JOY OUT OF POINTING OUT KIND OF
THE WEAKNESS OF THE
PRESENTATION.
I DON'T THINK THAT REALLY
MATTERS ALL THAT MUCH.
MUELLER WAS CERTAINLY NOT
ENGAGING IN REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY
WHEN HE SAID I DON'T WANT TO DO
THIS.
HE CAME IN, HE SPENT SIX HOURS
ON THE CHAIR, IT WAS HALTING, IT
WAS DIFFICULT, THERE WERE
FUNDAMENTAL MOMENTS LIKE FUSION
GPS WHERE YOU THOUGHT MAN, HOW
DOES HE NOT KNOW THESE THINGS.
BUT I DON'T WANT TO BE --
NEIL: HE'S AN HONORABLE MAN AND
A HERO BUT THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW
OR HE WAS TRYING TO JUST AVOID
THE QUESTION BY PRETENDING HE
DIDN'T.
>> I DON'T THINK SO.
I GIVE HIM THE SAME BENEFIT OF
THE DOUBT, HE'S AN HONORABLE GUY
WITH A LONG HISTORY OF PUBLIC
SERVICE.
I THINK WHAT IT SHOWS MORE
PRACTICALLY, IF YOU ARE TRYING
TO DRILL DOWN TO FIGURE OUT HOW
DID THIS GET STARTED, WHAT'S
GOING ON WITH THE HIRING, WITH
THE FISA COURT, WITH CHRISTOPHER
STEELE'S USAGE, YOU'RE NOT GOING
TO GET IT FROM HIM.
HE WAS KIND OF A DELEGATOR,
SOMEBODY THAT WAS FAIRLY ALOOF
TO IT, MAYBE TOO ALOOF.
NEIL: THE OTHER THING THAT WAS
SURPRISING WAS THE LETTER THAT
WAS SENT EVENTUALLY TO ATTORNEY
GENERAL BARR MISCHARACTERIZING,
THAT WASN'T EVEN SENT BY HIM.
THAT WAS SENT OBVIOUSLY BY A
STAFFER AND HE COULDN'T EVEN
REMEMBER.
>> WELL, THAT WAS ONE MOMENT
THAT I DIDN'T THINK WAS THAT
GREAT WHERE HE SAID THE LETTER
SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
I HAVE SEEN THE LETTER, NO, IT
REALLY DOESN'T.
IT JUST SAYS WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
I THINK HE'S GOT A LOT OF
LOYALTY TOWARDS THE PEOPLE ON
THAT TEAM.
NEIL: HOW WOULD YOU CHECK PARTY
AFFILIATION?
YOU CAN'T DO THAT, RIGHT?
OBVIOUSLY HE HAD PEOPLE WHO WERE
DEAD SET AGAINST THE PRESIDENT
AND OUT TO GET HIM.
>> LET ME JUST SAY, THERE ARE A
FEW PEOPLE ON THAT TEAM I HAVE
KNOWN FOR YEARS I WOULD
ABSOLUTELY HAVE ON THAT TEAM.
THEY ARE GOOD AGGRESSIVE
APPELLATE PEOPLE, THEY MAKE PAY
LOT OF SENSE.
I THINK THERE WAS A DELEGATION.
I DON'T THINK MUELLER DID MOST
OF THE PICKING.
PROBABLY ANDREW WISEMAN, HIS
DEPUTY DID.
IF YOU ARE DOING IT RIGHT
RECOGNIZING TWO INCREDIBLY
SENSITIVE PUBLIC CORRUPTION
PROBES, YOU WOULDN'T VIOLATE THE
HATCH ACT, SAY WHAT'S YOUR
PARTY, HOW LONG YOU BEEN A
DEMOCRAT, HOW LONG YOU BEEN A
REPUBLICAN.
BUT YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT
CONFLICTS, I'M DOING DUE
DILIGENCE, HAVE YOU EVER
REPRESENTED SOMEBODY WHO MIGHT
BE CONNECTED TO THE HILLARY
CLINTON CAMPAIGN.
THAT WOULD GET RID OF SOMEBODY
WHO ACTUALLY DEFENDED THE
CLINTON FOUNDATION.
OR HAVE YOU MADE DONATIONS.
THAT COULD BE FAIR GAME, TOO.
AGAIN, THERE'S A LOT OF CAREER
PROSECUTORS THAT WORK FOR THE
GOVERNMENT, DON'T HAVE A LOT OF
MONEY TO SPRINKLE AROUND ON
CAMPAIGN CANDIDATES THAT AREN'T
GOING TO CELEBRATION PARTIES FOR
CAMPAIGNS, YOU COULD FIND A LOT
OF PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T BRING THAT
BAGGAGE.
IT WAS ALWAYS KIND OF AN
UNFORCED ERROR BY THE MUELLER
TEAM TO HAVE SO MUCH OBVIOUS
BIAS IN THEIR BACKGROUND.
NEIL: THE PROOF IN THE PUDDING
MIGHT BE THE FACT A NEW WAVE OF
DEMOCRATS ARE STORMING THE
MICROPHONES TODAY TO SAY THE
IMPEACHMENT THING GOES ON, WE'RE
NOT GOING TO LET GO, IT'S STILL
AROUND 90, 95.
YOU KNOW?
>> LOOK, THERE'S POLITICAL HAY
TO BE MADE.
THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE
FACTS IN THAT REPORT THAT WILL
GIVE PEOPLE WHO ARE INCLINED TO
DO IT SOME ARGUMENT --
NEIL: THEY ARE MENTIONING THAT
HE INJUR
HE PEJUR
HE PERJR
HE PERJURED HIMSELF IN ANSWERING
WRITTEN QUESTIONS.
>> I DON'T BUY IT.
THERE WAS A SLOPPY ANSWER BY
MUELLER AT ONE POINT THAT SEEMED
TO SUGGEST THERE WAS DISHONESTY
IN THOSE ANSWERS.
IF YOU ARE GETTING TO THE POINT
WHERE YOU ARE LETTING THE
PRESIDENT SEND IN WRITTEN
QUESTIONS WITH HIS TEAM OF
LAWYERS, IT'S UNLIKELY HE WILL
SEND SOMETHING THAT'S PROVABLY
PERJURIOUS.
THEY HAD TO DIG UP SOMETHING.
THERE WAS NO REAL HEADLINE THAT
CAME OUT OF IT.
THAT WAS AT LEAST A NUGGET
PEOPLE CAN PLAY WITH IF THEY
WANT TO KEEP IT ALIVE.
I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE
INTERESTED IN THE PREQUELL, HOW
DID WE GET HERE, NOT SO MUCH THE
CURRENT MOVIE.
THE MOVIE IS KIND OF OVER.
NEIL: THE ONE THING I DID TAKE,
I'M GOING LONG HERE, BUT VERY
GOOD, YOU ARE HELPING ME WITH A
LOT OF STUFF, IS THE END OF THE
INTERVIEW BACK AND FORTH WITHIN
THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE
COMMITTEE, NOT WHETHER THE
PRESIDENT DID SOMETHING ILLEGAL
BUT WHETHER IT WAS UNTOWARD OR
UNETHICAL OR NOT BEFITTING A
PRESIDENT.
IT HAD ALREADY RACHETED DOWN
FROM WHAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY
SUPPOSED TO BE.
>> RIGHT.
WELL, THERE'S THE OLD SAYING,
THE LAW CONDEMNS MUCH OR PERMITS
MUCH WHICH WISDOM CONDEMNS AS
FOLLY.
LOOK, YOU CAN HAVE A PRESIDENT
WHO IS DOING NONDISCLOSURE
AGREEMENTS WITH PORN STARS AND
YOU MAY THINK THAT'S REALLY UGLY
AND EMBARRASSING, BUT DOESN'T
MEAN IT'S SOMETHING ILLEGAL.
WHEN I THINK TO GET INTO KIND OF
THE ETHICS OF THIS PROBE, WHEN
THE FACTS HAVE BEEN KNOWN THIS
LONG, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A
HAIL MARY, TOO.
THE LEGAL PART HAS BEEN
DETERMINED.
I THINK MOST OF AMERICA IS LIKE
WE HAVE HEARD THIS VERDICT,
LET'S MOVE PAST IT.
BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A
POLITICAL INTEREST IN KEEPING IT
ALIVE IN SOME QUARTERS.
NEIL: EVERYONE SEES THINGS
THROUGH THEIR PRISM, LEFT AND
RIGHT.
YOU HAVE TO ARGUE DOES ANYTHING
MOVE AS A RESULT OF WHAT WAS
SAID YESTERDAY.
PEOPLE WITH THEIR PRISM, THEY
HATE THE PRESIDENT, IT DIDN'T
MOVE ANY OF THEM OFF THAT.
THOSE WHO LOVE THE PRESIDENT,
DIDN'T MOVE ANYTHING OFF THAT.
>> RIGHT.
WITHIN TWO DAYS, THERE WILL BE
SOME TWEET OR SOMETHING ELSE
THAT DISTRACTS FROM IT, RIGHT?