>> OH, MY LORD, WHAT’S THAT?
>> JOE, DON’T DO IT.
DON’T LOSE YOUR SOUL OVER IT.
>> DANIEL, I WANT TO START WITH
YOU AND THE UNLIKELY PEOPLE WHO
WERE CAUGHT UP IN THIS STORY.
LET’S SORT OF MIX THE BOSS AND
THE BIBLE.
THESE WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE IN
THE DARKNESS ON THE EDGE OF TOWN
IN ROMAN SOCIETY IN JEWISH
CULTURE, IN EVERYTHING.
THEY WERE OUTCASTS FOR THE MOST
PART, AND WHAT AN EXTRAORDINARY
JOURNEY THEY HAD TO TAKE TO
BETHLEHEM.
>> THAT’S EXACTLY RIGHT, JOE.
I MEAN, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE
CHARACTERS IN THE FIRST
CHRISTMAS, THEY DIDN’T KNOW THAT
THEY WOULD BECOME STARS FOR 2000
YEARS AND BE THE SUBJECT OF
CHRISTMAS PAGEANTS AND CHRISTMAS
CARDS.
THEY WERE JUST ORDINARY PEOPLE,
MANY OF WHOM HAD LITTLE AGENCY
OR POWER.
IF YOU THINK OF MARY AND JOSEPH,
THEY WERE A POOR PEASANT COUPLE
IN A BACK WATER TOWN IN THE
ROMAN EMPIRE, AND CHRISTMAS, THE
FIRST CHRISTMAS CAME TO PEOPLE
WHO WERE VERY DISPIRITED, NOT
UNLIKE THE WORLD WE LIVE IN
TODAY.
THEY HAD WAITED FOR THE PROMISE
OF A MESSIAH, BUT THEY WERE
JADED.
THEY HAD TO WALK EVERY DAY AND
SEE THAT ROMAN FLAG FLY HIGH
ABOVE THEIR LAND.
THEY HAD BEEN OCCUPIED BY
DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, AND SO
CHRISTMAS IS NOT ALWAYS ALL
ABOUT THE HOLLY AND THE JOLLY
AND HAVING TO STIR UP THESE FAKE
JOY, IT ALSO WE CAN BRING OUR
PAIN.
WE CAN BRING OUR SORROW AND OUR
SADNESS, AND I THINK IT’S REALLY
APROPOS FOR THIS SEASON ARE WITH
PEOPLE ARE CELEBRATING CHRISTMAS
IN A DIFFERENT WAY WHERE THERE’S
MAYBE AN EMPTY CHAIR AROUND THE
TABLE, AND WE HAVE ALMOST
330,000 FELLOW AMERICANS WHO
HAVE DIED BECAUSE OF COVID.
SO CHRISTMAS, WHETHER YOU’RE
ANDY WILLIAMS AND YOU THINK IT’S
THE BEST TIME OF THE YEAR OR
YOU’RE MERLE HAGGARD AND JUST
TRYING TO MAKE IT THROUGH
DECEMBER, CHRISTMAS, YOU CAN
BRICK THAT TO THIS SEASON.
>> AND LIZ, LET’S TALK ABOUT HOW
THOSE WHO WERE AT THE FIRST
CHRISTMAS WERE THE DISPOSSESSED
AND THE DISREGARDED OF SOCIETY.
I REMEMBER IN JOHN, I THINK IT
WAS NATHANIEL WHO WAS TOLD THAT
THERE WAS A SAVIOR THAT HAD COME
FROM NAZARETH, WHO’S IMMEDIATELY
ASKED CAN ANYTHING GOOD COME
FROM NAZARETH, BUT THESE --
JESUS WAS THE UNLIKELIEST OF
SAVIORS GIVEN WHAT EVERYONE WAS
EXPECTING, BUT IT WAS THE
HUMILITY.
IT WAS THE HUMBLENESS, IT WAS
THE SIMPLICITY OF THE MESSAGE
THAT RESONATED 2,000 YEARS AGO
THAT STILL RESONATES TODAY.
>> YEAH, THIS STORY HAS ALWAYS
BEEN A STORY THAT RESONATES
MOSTLY WITH PEOPLE I BELIEVE --
WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE
EDGES, PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT, YOU
KNOW, RUNNING THE SHOW, PEOPLE
WHO HAVE NO PLACE AT THE INN.
WE HAVE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE WHO
HAVE BEEN SLEEPING ON THE PORCH
OF OUR CHURCH, AND WE HAVEN’T,
OF COURSE, BEEN IN SERVICE
THERE.
WE’RE DOING VIRTUAL SERVICE, AND
I’VE BEEN PREACHING ABOUT THEM,
BECAUSE THE WHOLE IDEA OF
INCARNATION, THE WORD MADE
FLESH, YOU START WONDERING IF
JESUS WAS ON THE PORCH, WOULD
YOU BE THROWING JESUS OUT OR
WOULD YOU BE TRYING TO HELP HIM?
SO THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN A STORY
ABOUT SUFFERING.
IT’S ALWAYS BEEN A STORY ABOUT
HOPE IN THE MIDST OF CHAOS.
WE ARE NOW IN PROBABLY THE MOST
CHAOTIC TIME IN MY LIFETIME AND
YOURS, AND HOW DO WE FIND HOPE?
HOW DO WE FIND THE WORD MADE
FLESH IN ALL OF THIS.
SO I THINK IT REALLY COULD BE A
MORE MEANINGFUL CHRISTMAS IF WE
STARTED THINKING ABOUT THE DEPTH
OF THE STORY AND NOT JUST THE
SUPERFICIAL JOY AND PEACE.
JESUS WAS BORN INTO AN
INCREDIBLY CHAOTIC AND
FRIGHTENING TIME.
>> RUSSELL, THE TITLE OF YOUR
LATEST BOOK IS "THE COURAGE TO
STAND."
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN
THIS COUNTRY AND AROUND THE
WORLD FIGHTING TO FIND THAT
COURAGE RIGHT NOW.
THERE’S A LOT OF HOPELESSNESS
OUT THERE THIS CHRISTMAS SEASON
UNFORTUNATELY, BUT YOU POINT TO
JESUS’S WORDS OF BE NOT AFRAID.
WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE THIS
CHRISTMAS?
>> WELL, MY MESSAGE IS EVERYONE
IS AFRAID RIGHT NOW, AND RIGHTLY
SO.
ANYONE WHO’S NOT AFRAID JUST
ISN’T AWARE OF WHAT’S GOING ON,
BUT I THINK FEAR CAN LEAD US TO
A SENSE OF WHOLENESS, AND THAT’S
WHY I THINK I WAS TEMPTED -- WE
HAD SOME NEIGHBORS IN A HOUSE
WHERE I USED TO LIVE ACROSS THE
STREET WHO USED TO DO CHRISTMAS
IN JULY ON JULY 25th AND
DECORATE AND SING CAROLS AND
EVERYTHING, AND I SAID TO SOME
FRIENDS, MAYBE WE SHOULD DO THAT
THIS YEAR BECAUSE IT JUST SEEMS
TOO SAD RIGHT NOW TO CELEBRATE
CHRISTMAS.
MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL JULY
AFTER THE VACCINE AND AFTER
EVERYTHING IS BACK TO NORMAL,
BUT I THINK IT’S APPROPRIATE TO
BE IN A TIME OF FEAR AND SEE
THAT THE LIGHT COMES INTO THE
DARKNESS AND THE DARKNESS DOES
NOT OVERCOME IT.
WHEN I THINK OF THE SHEPHERDS IN
BETHLEHEM, THE WORDS OF THE OLD
KING JAMES VERSION THAT JOE AND
I GREW UP WITH AND THE GLORY OF
THE LORD SHONE ROUND ABOUT THEM
AND THEY WERE SO AFRAID.
I THINK WE SHOULD BE REMINDED
ALTHOUGH WE HAVE TO SOCIAL
DISTANCE FROM ONE ANOTHER, GOD
HAS NOT SOCIALLY DISTANCED FROM
US.
THE WORD HAS BECOME FLESH AND
DWELT AMONG US.
THAT’S GOOD NEWS.
>> I’D LOVE TO DEVELOP ON THAT
POINT WITH LIZ WALKER JUST
BECAUSE IT’S NOT JUST HOPELESS
HOPELESSNESS THAT MANY ARE
STRUGGLING WITH IN THE FACE OF
DEATH, IN THE FACE OF THAT EMPTY
CHAIR AT THEIR TABLE, IN THEIR
HOME, NO THE JUST AT CHRISTMAS
BUT FOREVER NOW, BUT ALSO
EXTREME LONELINESS TO THE POINT
WHERE IT’S LEADING TO A MENTAL
HEALTH CRISIS, ESPECIALLY FOR
YOUNG PEOPLE.
WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO THOSE
WHO FOLLOW YOU ABOUT HANDLING
THAT?
ESPECIALLY DURING THE HOLIDAYS.
>> WELL, WE WORKED SPECIFICALLY
WITH PEOPLE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD
WHO HAVE BEEN TRAUMATIZED BY
VIOLENCE, BY RACISM, BY ALL
KINDS OF SYSTEMIC TRAUMA, AND
OUR MESSAGE TO THEM ALWAYS IS
THAT WE ARE COMMUNITY.
EVEN WHEN WE CAN’T REACH EACH
OTHER PHYSICALLY, WE JUST TALKED
ABOUT JESUS BEING THE LIGHT OF
THE WORLD.