>>> JOINING US HERE IN STUDIO ARE JODI KANTOR AND MEGAN
TWOHEY, TWO "NEW YORK TIMES"
REPORTERS WHO BROKE THE HARVEY
WEINSTEIN STORY, WHICH OF COURSE
HAS PROPELLED THE ME TOO
MOVEMENT INTO THE CULTURAL AND
POLITICAL FORCE THAT IT HAS
BECOME.
BECOME. THEIR NEW BOOK IS ABOUT HOW THEY
CHASED DOWN THAT STORY AND PUT
THIS BEND IN THE ARC OF HISTORY.
IT’S CALLED "SHE SAID: BREAKING
A SEXUAL HARASSMENT STORY THAT
HELPEDING IGNITE A MOVEMENT."
MS. KANTOR, MS. TWOHEY,
CONGRATULATIONS.
CONGRATULATIONS. IT’S REALLY GOOD TO HAVE YOU
BOTH HERE.
BOTH HERE. MEGAN, I ACTUALLY WANT TO ASK
YOU AN INAPPROPRIATE FIRST
QUESTION.
QUESTION. >> OKAY.
>> OKAY. >> WHICH IS YOU CAME BACK FROM
MATERNITY LEAVE IN JULY 2017.
YOU’RE GIVEN THE OPTION OF
REPORTING ON TRUMP TOWER MOSCOW
OR HARVEY WEINSTEIN.
WAS THAT LIKE CLOSE MY EYES AND
PICK?
PICK? I MEAN, THAT’S TWO VERY
DIFFICULT DOORS TO CHOOSE
BETWEEN.
BETWEEN. WHY DID YOU PICK THE WAY YOU
DID?
DID? >> WELL, THAT’S RIGHT.
I TOOK A DAY TO CONTEMPLATE THAT
QUESTION AND CONSULTED WITH SOME
COLLEAGUES.
COLLEAGUES. I HAD COLLEAGUES WHO HAD BEEN
REPORTING ON TRUMP AS I HAD
BEFORE I’D GONE OFF ON MATERNITY
LEAVE WHO SAID HERE’S THE STORY
OF A LIFETIME, YOU’D BE CRAZY TO
GO OFF AND LOOK INTO THIS
SUPPOSEDLY SLEAZY PRODUCER.
AND I DID ACTUALLY HAVE SOME
QUESTIONS ABOUT THE
INVESTIGATION IN TERMS OF FAMOUS
ACTRESSES.
ACTRESSES. IT WAS HARD FOR ME TO CONCEIVE
FAMOUS ACTRESSES AS BEING
VICTIMS.
VICTIMS. AS INVESTIGATIVE REPORTERS WE
REALLY WANT TO HELP GIVE VOICE
TO THE VOICELESS.
BUT IN CONSULTING WITH JODI, SHE
HAD REALLY MADE THE CASE THAT
LIKE ACTUALLY IF PEOPLE LIKE
GWYNETH PALTROW AND ASHLEY JUDD
HAD BEEN VICTIMIZED, IF THEY’D
BEEN VICTIMS OF SEXUAL
HARASSMENT, NOBODY IS IMMUNE.
AND IF WE CAN HELP GET TO THE
BOTTOM OF THIS AND BRING THIS TO
LIGHT AFTER SO MANY YEARS OF
SILENCE WE MAY BE ABLE TO MAKE A
DIFFERENCE.
DIFFERENCE. >> AND THERE IS THIS STORY ABOUT
GETTING PEOPLE TO PUT THEIR
NAMES TO THE STORY.
FINDING THE VICTIMS.
ONCE YOU FOUND THE VICTIMS, ONCE
YOU’RE HEARING THE STORY, ONCE
YOU’RE RECOGNIZING THE
SIMILARITY BETWEEN ALL THE
STORIES, GETTING PEOPLE TO PUT
THEIR NAMES ON THEM.
BUT THAT’S NOT IT.
THAT DOESN’T GET YOU TO WHERE
YOU NEED TO BE.
AND JODI, I FEEL LIKE THE
DECISION TO WRITE THIS
ESSENTIALLY AS A JOURNALISTIC
THRILLER IS TO PUT AT THE CENTER
OF THE STORY THIS IDEA OF
PROVABLE FACT.
PROVABLE FACT. IT’S NOT JUST ACCUSATION.
IT’S NOT JUST COMING OUT.
IT’S ABOUT TELLING THE STORY IN
A PROVABLE, OBJECTIVES WAY.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. IN PART BECAUSE THESE EVENTS
HAVE COME TO MEAN SO MUCH TO SO
MANY PEOPLE, WE REALIZED THAT
PEOPLE DID NOT KNOW THE TRUE
SURPRISING STORY OF HOW THIS
UNFOLDED BEHIND THE SCENES.
AND SO WE WANTED TO PUT THAT TO
PAPER AND TO TAKE YOU INTO ALL
OF THESE SITUATIONS.
THE FIRST VERY TENTATIVE PHONE
CALLS WITH THESE ACTRESSES.
THE FINAL CONFRONTATIONS WITH
HARVEY WEINSTEIN IN THE OFFICES
OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES," WHICH
WERE IN PART ABOUT TRYING TO BE
FAIR TO HIM AND GIVING HIM A
CHANCE TO RESPOND TO THE
ALLEGATIONS.
ALLEGATIONS. AND SHOWING EXACTLY WHAT YOU’RE
SAYING, THAT WE WEREN’T JUST
TRYING TO PUT ONE OR TWO HOTEL
ROOM STORIES IN THE NEWSPAPER,
WE WERE TRYING BUILD A SOLID
BODY OF EVIDENCE ABOUT 25 YEARS
OF ALLEGATIONS.
OF ALLEGATIONS. >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I
THINK HAS BEEN SUCH A -- HAS
PROPELLED THIS AND IGNITED A
MOVEMENT IS THAT IT DOES REACH
THE ELITE IN EVERY WAY.
AND I ALSO FEEL LIKE THAT’S KIND
OF A PRODUCT OF THE REPORTING
PROCESS HERE.
PROCESS HERE. I MEAN, IF WHAT YOU’RE ABLE TO
FOLLOW, IF THE MONEY YOU’RE ABLE
TO FOLLOW IS FINANCIAL
SETTLEMENTS AND NON-DISCLOSURE
AGREEMENTS, THOSE ARE THE TOOLS
OF ELITE INSTITUTIONS USED TO
PROTECT ELITE MEN.
AND IN NON-ELITE ENVIRONMENTS
THOSE MIGHT NOT BE THE TOOLS
THAT ARE USED TO COVER THESE
THINGS UP.
THINGS UP. SO THIS REPORTING PROCESS IS
ALMOST DESTINED TO BRING DOWN
MEN AT THE HIGHEST ECHELONS OF
SOCIETY.
SOCIETY. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. THIS STORY GOES WAY BEYOND
HARVEY WEINSTEIN.
HARVEY WEINSTEIN. THIS IS REALLY AN X-RAY INTO
ABUSE OF POWER.
SO IN OUR FIRST ARTICLE WE HAD
BEEN ABLE TO CONNECT SOME OF THE
DOTS OF WEINSTEIN AND HIS
ALLEGED PREDATION AND HOW HE HAD
COVERED IT UP OVER THE YEARS.
BUT SINCE THEN IN THE REPORTING
OF THIS BOOK WE WERE ABLE TO
BRING TOGETHER SO MANY OTHER
PIECES OF THE PUZZLE TO REALLY
PULL THE CURTAIN BACK ON THE
MACHINERY THAT WAS IN PLACE, TO
SILENCE ACCUSERS AND COVER UP
HIS TRACKS.
HIS TRACKS. AND THESE LEGAL SETTLEMENTS THAT
HAD BEEN PAID TO SILENCE WOMEN.
HARVEY WEINSTEIN HAD PAID AT
LEAST EIGHT SETTLEMENTS FROM
1990 THROUGH 2015, AND THAT WAS
BASICALLY TIME AND TIME AGAIN
COVERING UP HIS TRACKS.
SO WE CALL INTO QUESTION THOSE
LEGAL SETTLEMENTS THAT ARE USED
NOT JUST IN THE CASE OF
WEINSTEIN BUT IN SEXUAL
HARASSMENT AND SEXUAL ASSAULT
CASES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
>> WELL, THE ELITE LAWYERS WHO
COME OUT WORSE THAN ALMOST
ANYBODY IN YOUR STORY IN PART
TELLS THE STORY OF HOW THE ELITE
LEGAL PROFESSION HAS NOT ONLY
GREASED ITS OWN WHEELS DOING
THIS BUT HAS CREATED A VEHICLE
BY WHICH MONEY GETS YOU OFF,
MONEY ALLOWS YOU TO DO THIS SORT
OF THING.
OF THING. DO YOU FEEL LIKE THAT’S
PUNCTURED?
PUNCTURED? >> WELL, THERE IS A SHOCKING
MEMO IN THIS BOOK -- WE INCLUDED
A LOT OF ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS HERE
SO PEOPLE COULD JUST SEE AND
EXAMINE THEM FOR THEMSELVES,
KIND OF JOIN OUR PARTNERSHIP IN
PUZZLING THROUGH THIS STUFF.
THERE IS A DOCUMENT THAT MEGAN
GOT THAT LISA BLOOM, THE FAMOUS
FEMINIST LAWYER, WROTE.
AND IT’S ESSENTIALLY HER JOB
AUDITION MEMO FOR HARVEY
WEINSTEIN WHERE SHE’S SAYING,
"I’M GOING TO USE MY EXPERIENCE
AS A VICTIMS’ ADVOCATE AND I’M
GOING TO CROSS OVER TO YOUR SIDE
AND PUT ALL OF THAT EXPERIENCE
AND CREDIBILITY TO WORK FOR
YOU."
YOU." AND IT’S ACTUALLY A NUMBERED
MEMO ON HOW SHE’S GOING TO SORT
OF FEIS BACK ROSE McGOWAN’S
ALLEGATION.
ALLEGATION. AND SHE IS SEEN VERY EXPLICITLY
I WILL CHEAT FOR YOU -- EXCUSE
ME, I WILL MANIPULATE FOR YOU, I
WILL SMEAR ON YOUR BEHALF.
>> FOR $895 AN HOUR.
>> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. >> YOU CAN USE MY REPUTATION AS
A VICTIMS’ ADVOCATE TO GET RID
OF THE VICTIMS THAT ARE HAUNTING
YOU.
YOU. >> YES.
>> YES. >> WHAT ABOUT THE USE OF THE
SECURITY FIRMS AND THESE OTHER
SORT OF -- FORGIVE THE TERM.
THESE SORT OF HIT MEN OF THE
INDUSTRY THAT ARE USED NOT ONLY
TO GO AFTER AND SILENCE SOURCE
BUZZ TO TRY TO INTIMIDATE
JOURNALISTS WHO ARE DOING THIS
KIND OF WORK?
>> WELL, THAT’S RIGHT.
HARVEY WEINSTEIN USED A VARIETY
OF PRIVATE INVESTIGATIVE FIRMS
TO TRY TO SILENCE ACCUSERS AND
GO AFTER JOURNALISTS AS WELL.
WHICH IN SOME WAYS WAS NOT THAT
SURPRISING TO US.
BUT THE FACT THAT HE HAD USED
BLACK CUBE, A FIRM THAT’S MADE
UP OF FORMER ISRAELI
INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS AND
AGENTS WHO ADOPTED FAKE
IDENTITIES TO TRY TO EXTRACT
INFORMATION FROM WOMEN WHO HE
THOUGHT MIGHT GO PUBLIC AS WELL
AS REPORTERS WAS LIKE JUST
JAW-DROPPING TO US.
RONAN FARROW WAS THE FIRST TO
BREAK THAT NEWS BACK IN 2017.
BUT YOU KNOW, ONE OF THOSE
CONTRACTS WAS BASICALLY A
PROMISE TO THOSE FORMER ISRAELI
INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS THAT THEY
WOULD BE PAID A $300,000 BONUS
IF THEY COULD BRING A STOP TO
OUR INVESTIGATION.
OUR INVESTIGATION. >> SPECIFICALLY IF YOUR ARTICLE
WOULDN’T RUN.
WOULDN’T RUN. >> IT WAS LIKE A HIT ON OUR
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. WELL, THE INVESTIGATION
OBVIOUSLY WAS BROUGHT TO
FRUITION NOT ONLY THROUGH YOUR
INTELLIGENCE AND YOUR DILIGENCE
BUT THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF THE
INSTITUTION OF THE "NEW YORK
TIMES" THAT HAD THE RESOURCES TO
GET THIS DONE.
PEOPLE COMING OUT IS NECESSARY.
IT IS NOT NECESSARILY
SUFFICIENT.
SUFFICIENT. YOU DO NEED THE KIND OF WORK
THAT YOU GUYS DID AND THE KIND
OF SUPPORT YOU HAD TO DO IT IN
ORDER TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.
AND YOU DID.
CONGRATULATIONS.
CONGRATULATIONS. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> IT’S GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE.
>> THANKS SO MUCH.
>> JODI CANTOR, MEGAN TWOHEY,
"THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTERS
BEHIND THE BOOK.
IT IS CALLED "SHE SAID: BREAKING
THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT STORY THAT
HELPED IGNITE A MOVEMENT."
YOU SHOULD READ IT.
A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE COMPARING
THIS TO’LL "ALL THE PRESIDENT’S
MEN."
MEN." AND WHEN IT GETS COMPARED TO
"ALL THE PRESIDENT’S MEN," "ALL