DESCRIBED AS A LORD OF THE FLIES
ENVIRONMENT.
CHARLES?
>> Charles: THANKS, CHAD.
SO ARE MANCHINS A NEW DEMAND
THAT THE SPENDING BILL MAY NOT
BE DEAD?
KARL ROVE JOINS ME NOW.
KARL, THE NEWS IS NOT REALLY
NEWS.
THIS IS WHAT SENATOR MANCHIN WAS
TALKING ABOUT THIS WHOLE TIME
WITH RESPECT TO THE CHILD CARE
TAX CREDIT.
IS ANYTHING ELSE CHANGED THERE?
>> I DON’T THINK SO.
SOUNDS LIKE WHAT IS HE GOING TO
SAY?
NO, I’M NEVER GOING TO BE OPEN
TO HAVING DISCUSSIONS.
I DON’T THINK THAT IS HIS STYLE.
OF COURSE HE’S SAYING I’LL SIT
DOWN WITH YOU.
HE’S VERY CLEAR.
HE DOES NOT BELIEVE WE NEED A
BIG SPENDING BILL.
HE THINKS IT OUGHT TO BE TIED TO
WORK REQUIREMENTS AND INCOME.
THAT IS TO SAY, THE WEALTHIER
YOU ARE, THE LESS LIKELY YOU ARE
TO GET THE BENEFIT.
IF YOU GET THE BENEFIT, YOU HAVE
TO BE WORKING OR LOOKING FOR
WORK.
HE DOESN’T WANT TO UNDO THAT
CONNECTION THAT SO MANY
DEMOCRATS WANT TO AXE.
>> Charles: WHAT IS AMAZING
ABOUT THAT WHOLE PART ABOUT THE
ELIGIBILITY, UP TO 200,000 WHERE
IT STARTS TO PHASE OUT UP TO
400,000 YOU’RE STILL GETTING
SOMETHING.
THIS IS PROMOTED.
EVERYTHING THE DEMOCRATS
PROMOTE, THEY PROMOTE EITHER AS
HELPING BLACK OR BROWN, POOR,
MIDDLE CLASS, BUT SO MANY THINGS
THAT THEY HAVE DRAWN A LINE IN
THE STAND WITH WHETHER IT’S
15,000 FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES,
WHETHER IT’S $80,000 FOR YOUR
MORTGAGE TAX OR EVEN SOMETHING
LIKE THIS, THIS IS NOT FOR POOR
FOLKS.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I’M
SHOCKED MORE DEMOCRATS AREN’T
PUSHING BACK ON.
>> THEY LIKE -- SOME DEMOCRATS
HAVE GROWN ENAMORED WITH
UNIVERSAL BENEFITS.
YOU OUGHT TO GET THE BENEFIT
FROM THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE
GOVERNMENT CAN DELIVER IT MORE
EFFICIENTLY THAN THE
MARKETPLACE.
TAKE A LOOK AT PAID FAMILY
LEAVE.
THEY WANT TO PAY 90 TO 100% OF
THE COST OF EXISTING PAID LEAVE
PROGRAMS BEING OFFERED BY
PRIVATE BUSINESSES.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
THE GOVERNMENT WILL STEP IN AND
PAY FOR SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF
BUSINESSES ARE WILLING TO
PROVIDE THEIR EMPLOYEES IN ORDER
TO KEEP A STRONG WORK FORCE?
THIS IDEA OF UNIVERSALITY IS THE
IDEA THAT IF WE CAN GET MORE
PEOPLE HOOKED, MORE POWER IN THE
HANDS OF THE GOVERNMENT.
>> Charles: THE PROBLEM WITH
THAT WE SAW LAST YEAR,
INFLATION.
EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT IT.
SENATOR JOE MANCHIN CONNECTED
THE DOTS.
IF YOU GIVE OUT $2 TRILLION IN
MONEY THAT WE DON’T NEED, GUESS
WHAT WILL HAPPEN?
PEOPLE WILL SPEND IT.
IT WILL TRICKLE UP.
YOU’LL HAVE HUNDREDS OF SHIPS
PARKED OFF THE PORTS IN
CALIFORNIA BECAUSE YOU ORDERED
SO MANY THINGS FROM CHINA AND HE
KNOWS THIS.
HE’S MADE THAT CONNECTION.
HOW DOES A MODERATE, A
REASONABLE DEMOCRAT PUSH BACK
AGAINST THAT?
>> WELL, THEY SHOULDN’T.
AS WE ALSO KNOW, WHAT WE’RE
DOING IS INFLATING THE CURRENCY.
WE’RE DEVALUING THE DOLLAR.
SO THE MONEY THAT WE GET, THAT’S
ONE OF THE REASONS WHY AS
INFLATION HAS GONE UP, EVEN THE
WAGES ARE RISING, THE COST OF
THE GOODS AND SERVICES WE’RE
TRYING TO BUY ARE RISING FASTER
THAN OUR WAGES.
SO WE’RE RUNNING FASTER IN ORDER
TO GET FURTHER BEHIND.
THAT’S ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT
MANCHIN MADE.
WE CAN’T AFFORD THIS AS A
COUNTRY.
ALL OF THIS EXCESS SPENDING HAS
A REAL LIFE IMPLICATION AND THAT
REAL-LIFE IMPLICATION IS IT
DRIVES UP PRICES BY DEPRECIATING
THE VALUE OF THE CURRENCY.
>> Charles: HAVING SAID THIS,
YOU THINK SOME SORT OF DEAL WILL
BE MADE?
>> WELL, I WOULDN’T BE SURPRISED
IF THEY ARRIVED AT SOMETHING
THAT SOMETHING WOULD BE
SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN THE $5
TRILLION TRUE COST OF THE BUILD
BACK BETTER PLAN.
IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT
MANCHIN INSISTS BE TIED TO A
WORK REQUIREMENT, THAT IT BE
MEANS TESTED SO THAT IT DOESN’T
GO TO WEALTHY PEOPLE AND "PAID
FOR."
THAT IS TO SAY THERE HAS TO BE A
TAX OR SOME KIND OF CHANGE THAT
ALLOWED THE REVENUE TO PAY FOR
THE FULL COST OF THE PACKAGE.
I CAN SEE THEM COMING UP WITH
SOMETHING.
I DON’T SEE IT PASSING.
TO THE DEGREE THAT THEY GIVE IN
MANCHIN’S DEMANDS, YOU’LL HAVE
PEOPLE LIKE JAYAPAL SAYING WE’RE
NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR THAT WHEN
IT COMES TO THE HOUSE.
WE WANT A UNIVERSAL BENEFIT.
WE DON’T WANT IT LIMITED AND IT
OUGHT TO BE MUCH, MUCH BIGGER.
>> Charles: NO CORN HUSKS OR
KICKBACK IN THIS ONE.
A MINUTE TO GO.
WE HEARD CHAD TALKING ABOUT THIS
FILIBUSTER, AN ATTEMPT -- MAYBE
A ONE-TIME ADJUSTMENT TO THE
FILIBUSTER FOR VOTING RIGHTS,
THE UPDATE ON THE VOTING RIGHTS
ACT.
WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE?
>> WELL, YOU GOT TWO PEOPLE,
SINEMA OF ARIZONA AND MANCHIN OF
WEST VIRGINIA AND PROBABLY
OTHERS IN THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS
THAT ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THE
IDEA OF GETTING RID OF THE
60-VOTE REQUIREMENT.
THEY RECOGNIZE IF THAT HAPPENS
AND THE NATURE OF THE SENATE
CHANGES AND WE FIND OURSELVES IN
A PLACE WHERE IF A PARTY
CONTROLS THE HOUSE, THE SENATE
AND THE WHITE HOUSE, IT DOES
DRAMATIC THINGS.
WHEN THEY LOSE CONTROL AND WE
PING-PONG BACK THE OTHER
DIRECTION.
DOES ANYBODY THINK IN THE
60-VOTE REQUIREMENT GOES AWAY
AND REPUBLICANS CONTROL THE
WHITE HOUSE, THE SENATE AND THE
HOUSE DOESN’T THINK THE
REPUBLICANS WOULD DO NATIONAL
VOTING RIGHTS?
THIS IS A BAD MANEUVER.
SCHUMER WILL LOOK FOOLISH, COME
UP SHORT AND LOOK WEAK AS A
RESULT.
HE HAS TWO DEMOCRATS, SINEMA AND
MANCHIN SAYING WE’RE NOT GOING
FOR IT.
I SUSPECT THERE’S MORE DEMOCRATS
BACK THERE THAT AGREE WITH
SINEMA AND MANCHIN MORE THAN
THEY AGREE WITH SCHUMER.
>> Charles: THEY DON’T WANT TO
BE BEATEN UP BY THE MAINSTREAM
MEDIA THAT IS GOING TO TOWN ON
SINEMA.
THE THINGS THAT THEY SAY ABOUT
HER THIS WEEKEND.
GREAT SEEING YOU.
HAPPY NEW YEAR.
THE FRAMERS HAD GOOD NOTIONS AND
THE TYRANNY OF THE MAJORITY.