GETS UNDER WAY ON A WEDNESDAY NIGHT.
NIGHT. >>> WELL, GOOD EVENING ONCE
AGAIN FROM OUR NBC NEWS
HEADQUARTERS HERE IN NEW YORK.
DAY 797 OF THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION.
ADMINISTRATION. AS THE POLITICAL WORLD CONTINUES
TO REACT ALONG WITH THE PUBLIC
TO A FOUR-PAGE SUMMARY LETTER BY
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND AMID
INCREASING PRESSURE TO RELEASE
THE ACTUAL MUELLER REPORT, THE
PRESIDENT IS BUILDING ON HIS
THEME OF TOTAL EXONERATION WITH
AN EYE TOWARD THE COMING BATTLES
PERHAPS WITH DEMOCRATS ON
CAPITOL HILL.
CAPITOL HILL. TONIGHT DONALD TRUMP TALKED WITH
FOX NEWS HOST SEAN HANNITY ABOUT
MUELLER’S INVESTIGATION.
MUELLER’S INVESTIGATION. HE CALLED IT A SCAM, SAID IT WAS
LED BY TREASONOUS PEOPLE.
>> THIS WAS AN ATTEMPTED
TAKEOVER OF OUR GOVERNMENT, OF
OUR COUNTRY, AN ILLEGAL
TAKEOVER.
TAKEOVER. AND IF IT WERE THE OTHER WAY
AROUND WHERE I WAS DOING IT TO
PRESIDENT OBAMA OR A DEMOCRAT IT
WOULD BE VIRTUALLY THE MAXIMUM
SENTENCE THAT YOU CAN FIND NO
MATTER WHERE YOU LOOK IN
WHATEVER LEGAL BOOK.
>> HOUSE DEMOCRATS IN THE
MEANTIME ARE STAKING OUT THEIR
POSITIONS.
POSITIONS. THREE LAWMAKERS ARE TELLING NBC
NEWS THAT KEY OVERSIGHT
COMMITTEES ARE EXPLORING LEGAL
OPTIONS INCLUDING BUT NOT
LIMITED TO THE POSSIBILITY OF
ISSUING SUBPOENA TO SPECIAL
COUNSEL ROBERT MUELLER.
THAT WOULD MEAN BYPASSING THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR.
EARLIER TODAY HOUSE JUDICIARY
CHAIRMAN JERRY NADLER OF NEW
YORK SAID HE SPOKE ON THE PHONE
WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ABOUT
THE APRIL 2nd DEADLINE THAT
DEMOCRATS HAVE SET FOR THE
RELEASE OF THE MUELLER REPORT.
>> I ASKED HIM ABOUT THE LENGTH
AND BREADTH OF THE MUELLER
REPORT.
REPORT. HE TOLD ME IT WAS A VERY
SUBSTANTIAL REPORT, A VERY
SUBSTANTIAL REPORT.
SUBSTANTIAL REPORT. I ASKED HIM WHEN WE WOULD SEE
IT.
IT. AND HE COULDN’T GET SPECIFIC.
HE SAID WEEKS, NOT MONTHS.
IT IS APPARENT THAT THE
DEPARTMENT WILL NOT MEET THE
APRIL 2nd DEADLINE THAT WE SET
AND I AM VERY DISTURBED BY THAT.
I ASKED WHETHER THE -- WHETHER
HE COULD COMMIT THAT THE FULL
REPORT, AND THE UNREDACTED FULL
REPORT WITH THE UNDERLYING
DOCUMENTS, EVIDENCE WOULD BE
PROVIDED TO CONGRESS AND TO THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE.
AMERICAN PEOPLE. AND HE SAID -- HE WOULDN’T
COMMIT TO THAT.
>> NEW POLLING FROM CNN MEANTIME
SHOWS 57% OF AMERICANS WANT
CONGRESS TO PURSUE HEARINGS INTO
THE FINDINGS OF THE MUELLER
REPORT.
REPORT. 43% WANT CONGRESS TO TAKE NO
ACTION AND END THE INVESTIGATION
COMPLETELY.
COMPLETELY. SAME POLLING SHOWING 56% SAYING
THE PRESIDENT HAS NOT BEEN
EXONERATED OF COLLUSION WHILE
43% SAY HE HAS.
AMID THESE DEVELOPMENTS WE ARE
ALSO HEARING SOMEFROM SOME BIG
FIGURES IN THE RUSSIA INQUIRY.
TODAY LESTER HOLT SAT DOWN FOR
AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH
FORMER FBI DIRECTOR JAMES COMEY
WHOSE FIRING, OF COURSE,
LAUNCHED THE MUELLER
APPOINTMENT.
APPOINTMENT. HERE’S WHAT TRUMP SAID ABOUT
THAT FIRING, YOU’LL RECALL, BACK
THEN.
THEN. >> WHEN I DECIDED TO JUST DO IT
I SAID TO MYSELF, I SAID YOU
KNOW, THIS RUSSIA THING WITH
TRUMP AND RUSSIA IS A MADE-UP
STORY.
STORY. >> AND NOW BACK TO COMEY.
HERE’S WHAT HE SAID TODAY ABOUT
THAT VERY ADMISSION FROM THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. >> I THOUGHT THAT’S POTENTIALLY
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
AND I HOPE SOMEBODY IS GOING TO
LOOK AT THAT.
AGAIN, THE PRESIDENT APPEARS TO
BE SAYING -- I DON’T KNOW WHAT’S
IN HIS HEAD, WHICH IS WHY I
CAN’T REACH THE CONCLUSION.
WHAT HE APPEARS TO BE SAYING IS
I GOT RID OF THIS GUY TO SHUT
DOWN AN INVESTIGATION THAT
THREATENED ME.
THREATENED ME. >> NEXT COMEY WAS ASKED ABOUT
MUELLER CHOOSING NOT TO MAKE A
CALL APPARENTLY ON WHETHER TRUMP
OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE.
OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE. >> MR. MUELLER DECIDES NOT TO
MAKE A JUDGMENT ON THAT
PARTICULAR ISSUE.
PARTICULAR ISSUE. DOES THAT ALONE SURPRISE YOU?
>> IT DOES.
THE PURPOSE OF THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE
POLITICALS, IN THIS CASE THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL, DOESN’T MAKE
THE ULTIMATE CALL ON WHETHER THE
SUBJECT OF THE INVESTIGATION,
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES, SHOULD BE HELD
CRIMINALLY LIABLE FOR ACTIVITIES
THAT WERE UNDER INVESTIGATION.
SOUGHT IDEA THAT A SPECIAL
COUNSEL WOULDN’T REACH THE
QUESTION AND HAND IT TO THE
POLITICAL LEADERSHIP DOESN’T
MAKE SENSE.
MAKE SENSE. I’M NOT PREJUDGING IT.
I’M SAYING IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE
ON ITS FACE.
>> MEANWHILE, THERE’S BEEN A
RATHER SURPRISING ASSESSMENT OF
WHAT EVIDENCE MIGHT BE CONTAINED
IN THE MUELLER REPORT.
AND IT CAME FROM FOX NEWS LEGAL
ANALYST ANDREW NAPOLITANO.
>> IF THERE WERE NO EVIDENCE OF
CONSPIRACY AND NO EVIDENCE OF
OBSTRUCTION, THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL WOULD HAVE TOLD US SO.
HE DIDN’T.
HE DIDN’T. SO THERE IS SOMETHING IN THERE
THAT THE DEMOCRATS AND OPPONENTS
OF THE PRESIDENT WANT TO SEE.
THEY WILL SEE IT.
AND THEY’LL MAKE HAY OUT OF IT.
AND THEN THEY’LL SECOND-GUESS
BOB MUELLER AS TO WHETHER OR NOT
IT IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO MEET
THE LEGAL STANDARD OF PROOF OF
GUILT BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.
>> ON THAT POINT LET’S BRING IN
OUR LEAD-OFF PANEL ON A
WEDNESDAY NIGHT.
WEDNESDAY NIGHT. MIMI ROCAH, FORMER ASSISTANT
U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE SOUTHERN
DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, NOW A
DISTINGUISHED FELLOW IN CRIMINAL
JUSTICE AT THE PACE UNIVERSITY
SCHOOL OF LAW.
MICHAEL SCHMIDT, PULITZER
PRIZE-WINNING WASHINGTON
PRIZE-WINNING WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT FOR THE "NEW YORK
TIMES."
TIMES." AND SAM STEINBACH WITH US,
POLITICAL EDITOR FOR THE DAILY
BEAST.
BEAST. GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO YOU
ALL.
ALL. MIMI, I’D LIKE TO BEGIN WITH YOU
AND WITH THIS QUESTION.
WE’VE HAD A STRING OF GUESTS
COME IN HERE AND DESCRIBE BOB
MUELLER AS ALMOST AN EGOLESS
FIGURE, THOUGH HE IS CLEARLY NOT
WITHOUT PRIDE.
WITHOUT PRIDE. WHAT IS THE CHANCE THAT MUELLER
IS WATCHING SOME OF THIS,
FEELING THAT HIS WORK HAS BEEN
MISPORTRAYED AND HIS DECISIONS
HAVE PERHAPS BEEN MISREPORTED?
>> SO LOOK, I WOULD NEVER
PRESUME TO SPEAK FOR BOB
MUELLER.
MUELLER. I WILL SAY LIKE EVERYBODY WE’VE
ALL WATCHED HIM CLOSELY OVER THE
PAST 18 MONTHS.
AND HE’S OBVIOUSLY A PATIENT
MAN.
MAN. HE DIDN’T REACT EVERY TIME
DONALD TRUMP, YOU KNOW, CALLED
HIM CONFLICTED AND CALLED IT A
WITCH HUNT, ET CETERA.
AND I REALLY HAVE TO BELIEVE
THAT WHILE THERE IS A LOT OF
MISINTERPRETATION AT THIS POINT
GOING ON ABOUT WHAT MUELLER HAS
OR HASN’T SAID, RIGHT?
HE HAS NOT SAID NO COLLUSION.
AT LEAST AS FAR AS WE KNOW
THROUGH BARR’S OWN WORDS.
THAT IS NOT WHAT MUELLER SAID.
AND SO TO THE EXTENT THAT IS
BEING REPEATED, THAT MUST BE
FRUSTRATING TO HIM.
BUT HE HAS A REPORT, AND WE NOW
AT LEAST HAVE A CLUE THAT IT’S A
VERY SUBSTANTIAL REPORT, WHICH
COULD MEAN APPARENTLY LESS THAN
1,000 BUT CLEARLY MORE THAN
SEVERAL HUNDRED PAGES IF IT’S
SUBSTANTIAL.
SUBSTANTIAL. AND I THINK THAT HE UNDERSTANDS
THAT THAT REPORT WILL COME OUT
BECAUSE IT HAS TO, BECAUSE THAT
IS THE ONLY WAY THAT WE ARE
GOING O’FULLY UNDERSTAND HERE
WHAT HAPPENED.
WHAT HAPPENED. AS FAR AS WE KNOW, BOB MUELLER
TOOK ONE THING OFF THE TABLE SO
FAR.
FAR. AND THAT IS THE CHARGE OF A
CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY OF TRUMP AND
OTHER PEOPLE AROUND HIS CAMPAIGN
WITH THE RUSSIANS TO INTERFERE
IN OUR ELECTION.
THAT IS WHAT WE KNOW AT THIS
POINT.
POINT. THAT LEAVES A LOT ON THE TABLE.
AND EVERY AMERICAN ON BOTH
SIDES, REPUBLICANS, DEMOCRATS,
INDEPENDENTS, SHOULD WANT TO
KNOW THE DEGREE OF WHAT ELSE IS
ON THE TABLE.
IS IT NOTHING?
IS IT SOMETHING?
IS IT A LOT?
BECAUSE THE ONLY STANDARD WE
KNOW RIGHT NOW THAT BOB MUELLER
APPARENTLY SAID WASN’T MET WAS
PROOF BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT
AS TO COLLUSION -- AS TO
CONSPIRACY AND OBSTRUCTION,
THERE’S SOMETHING SUBSTANTIAL
THERE.
THERE. WE KNOW THAT.
WE KNOW THAT FROM BOB MUELLER.
>> MIKE SCHMIDT, ON THE QUESTION
OF THE RUSSIANS I WANT TO PLAY
FOR YOU SOME OF COMEY WANTING US
TO THINK ABOUT THE RUSSIANS A
LITTLE DIFFERENTLY AND INSERT A
DIFFERENT COUNTRY.
DIFFERENT COUNTRY. WE’LL TALK ABOUT THIS ON THE
OTHER SIDE.
OTHER SIDE. >> CLOSE YOUR EYES.
AGAIN, CHANGE THE NAMES.
LET ME MAKE ONE UP FOR YOU.
THE IRANIANS.
THE IRANIANS. THIS IS TOTALLY MADE UP.
THE IRANIANS INTERFERE IN THE
ELECTION TO HELP ELECT BARACK
OBAMA BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY’LL
GET A BETTER NUCLEAR DEAL FROM
HIM.
HIM. AND DURING THAT ELECTION AN
OBAMA AIDE MEETS WITH THE
IRANIANS AND TALKS ABOUT THE
DIRT THEY HAVE THAT WILL HELP
OBAMA GET ELECTED AND THE FBI
FINDS OUT ABOUT THAT.
WE SHOULD NOT INVESTIGATE THAT?
SO THE HYPOCRISY IS REVEALED
JUST BY CHANGING THE NAMES.
THE FBI DID WHAT IT ABSOLUTELY
HAD TO DO.
>> SO MICHAEL, WE HAVE THAT
THERE.
THERE. WHAT’S ON YOUR LIST OF THE
GREATEST UNKNOWNS ABOUT THIS
REPORT NONE OF US HAVE YET TO
SEE?
SEE? >> FOR ME THE GREATEST UNKNOWN
IS ON THE QUESTION OF
OBSTRUCTION.
OBSTRUCTION. BECAUSE THAT’S WHERE THE
PRESIDENT HAS THE MOST EXPOSURE.
AND WHERE THERE IS JUST
DOCUMENTED A LOT OF THINGS.
SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HE DID
IN PUBLIC HIMSELF.
I THINK THE ISSUE HERE IS THAT
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS A
PERCEPTION PROBLEM.
PERCEPTION PROBLEM. THEY HAD A SPECIAL COUNSEL TO
INSULATE THE INVESTIGATION FROM
POLITICS, AND TO INSULATE THE
RESULT AND GIVE THE PUBLIC THE
CONFIDENCE THAT THE RESULT WAS
DONE BY FOLLOWING THE FACTS.
IN THIS INSTANCE THE PERSON THAT
WAS THERE TO DO THAT DIDN’T DO
THAT.
THAT. AND HE LEFT THE DECISION TO BE
EXPOSED TO THE POLITICS, TO THE
APPOINTED POLITICIANS OR IN THIS
CASE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND
THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL TO
MAKE THE DECISION.
AND BILL BARR MAY HAVE MADE THE
RIGHT CALL.
RIGHT CALL. YOU KNOW, WHEN FOLKS GO BACK AND
LOOK AT THIS AND SUCH.
BUT THE PERCEPTION OF IT IS A
DIFFICULT ONE BECAUSE IT LOOKS
LIKE THE GUY WHO WAS THERE TO
FOLLOW THE FACTS DIDN’T MAKE THE
CALL.
CALL. >> AND MICHAEL, LET ME ADD TO
THAT BILL BARR HAPPENS TO HAVE
PREOPINED ON THIS SUBJECT.
GRANTED, HE HAPPENS TO HAVE BEEN
APPOINTED BY DONALD TRUMP SINCE
THIS STARTED, GRANTED.
BUT ROBERT MUELLER, ALWAYS THE
MARINE CAPTAIN, ALWAYS ALL ABOUT
CHAIN OF COMMAND, WAS IN FACT
FOLLOWING HIS CHAIN OF COMMAND.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. AND WHAT THIS DID IS IT GAVE THE
DEMOCRATS AN OPENING.
IF MUELLER HAD SAID -- LOOK,
MUELLER SAYS THERE’S NOT ENOUGH
THERE FOR OBSTRUCTION AND BARR
AGREED WITH HIM.
THEN THE ARGUMENT WOULD BE OVER.
THERE WOULD BE NO WIND IN THEIR
SAILS.
SAILS. BUT NOW THEY HAVE THIS ODD THING
WHERE MUELLER SAYS NOTHING, BARR
THREE MONTHS, A FEW MONTHS IN AS
TRUMP’S ATTORNEY GENERAL, MAKES
THE CALL.
THE CALL. AND NOW JERRY NADLER SAYS I NEED
TO SEE ALL THE HOMEWORK.
I NEED TO SEE EVERYTHING.
WE HAVE TO HAVE HEARINGS ON THIS
TO ASSESS IT.
BECAUSE IT HAS A POLITICAL
TINGE.
TINGE. >> ALL RIGHT, SAM STEIN.
HOW DO THE DEMOCRATS HANDLE THIS
AND HOW GOOD A LOOK WILL IT BE
IF THEY SKIP A STEP AND SUBPOENA
ROBERT MUELLER DIRECTLY?
>> WELL, FROM MY CONVERSATIONS
WITH DEMOCRATS THERE IS SORT OF
A WEIRD INTERNAL DIVIDE IN THE
CAUCUS RIGHT NOW.
NO ONE WANTS TO TARNISH ROBERT
MUELLER.
MUELLER. THEY THINK IT IN FACT WOULD BE
IMPOSSIBLE AFTER HAVING SPENT
MONTHS BUILDING HIM UP.
THE QUESTION REALLY IS OVER
WHETHER THEY JUST MOVE ON FROM
WHAT’S HAPPENED HERE, WHETHER TO
FOCUS ON DIFFERENT ISSUES AND
LEAVE THE RUSSIA MATTER BEHIND.
AND THEN OF COURSE THERE’S A
PART OF IT THAT SIMPLY WON’T
ALLOW THAT, EITHER BECAUSE
THEY’RE EMOTIONALLY TIED TO IT
OR BECAUSE THEY STRATEGICALLY
THINK IT’S UNWISE TO DO SO.
SO WHAT WE CAN EXPECT IS THAT
THE COMMITTEES, WHETHER IT’S
JUDICIARY OR OVERSIGHT, IS GOING
TO BE CALLING UP BOB -- SORRY,
BILL BARR FIRST.
IN PART BECAUSE EES HE IS THE
ONE WHO MADE THE DECISION AND
WROTE THE MEMO AND THEY WANT TO
MAKE SURE THEY CAN GET
INFORMATION OUT OF HIM BEFORE
THEY BRING BACK MUELLER WHO
POTENTIALLY COULD CONTRADICT
WHAT BARR HAS TO SAY.
KEEP IN MIND ALL THIS IS
HAPPENING IN THIS INTENSE
VACUUM.
VACUUM. WE’RE OPERATING OFF A FOUR-PAGE
MEMO.
MEMO. LITTLE IS KNOWN ON THE HILL.
THERE’S A RUSH TO TRY TO FIND
OUT INFORMATION BUT THE
INFORMATION OBVIOUSLY IS NOT
BEING PROVIDED.
BEING PROVIDED. SO DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING THEIR
BEST TO HOLD BACK AND WAIT AND
SEE IF THEY CAN GET THEIR HANDS
ON THE REPORT BEFORE ANY OF THIS