THE WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS MIGHT ACTUALLY REACH SOME SORT
OF DEAL.
OF DEAL. >>> WELCOME TO WEDNESDAY.
"MEET THE PRESS DAILY."
GOOD EVENING.
GOOD EVENING. I’M CHUCK TODD HERE IN
WASHINGTON.
WASHINGTON. PRESIDENT TRUMP DIDN’T WANT
AMERICA TO BE THE WORLD’S
POLICE.
POLICE. WELL, WE GOT TO ASK THIS
QUESTION.
QUESTION. IS THIS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN
THERE IS NO AMERICAN COP ON THE
BEAT?
BEAT? THERE ARE CLASHES IN HONG KONG
BETWEEN PRO-DEMOCRACY PROTESTERS
AND RIOT POLICE.
THERE ARE DECADES-OLD TENSIONS
REEMERGING BETWEEN JAPAN AND
SOUTH KOREA.
SOUTH KOREA. AT A MOMENT THEY SHOULD BE
FOCUSED ON NORTH KOREA.
THERE ARE POPULIST AND
XENOPHOBIC RIOTS ROCKING THE
GLOBE.
GLOBE. RUSSIA IS TESTING NUCLEAR
POWERED MISSILES.
POWERED MISSILES. THERE IS NOW RUSSIAN MISSILE
TECHNOLOGY INSIDE TURKEY, A KEY
NATO
NATO NATO ALLY.
NATO ALLY. AND I HAVEN’T EVEN MENTIONED
YOUR JUST SORT OF
RUN-OF-THE-MILL WHETHER IT IS
MIDDLE EAST PEACE OR LATIN
AMERICAN, ESPECIALLY WHERE SOME
DEMONSTRATORS ARE SINGING OUR
NATIONAL ANTHEM LIKE WE’VE SEEN
IN HONG KONG.
I DIDN’T EVEN BRING UP THE
DEMOCRACY MOVEMENTS WE HAVE
NOTHING ABOUT TO SAY IN RUSSIA.
A TOP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL
ACTUALLY SAID THE HONG KONG
MATTER IS AN INTERNAL MATTER FOR
CHINA.
CHINA. ANY OTHER MODERN PRESIDENT WOULD
ALSO BE STRENUOUSLY OPPOSING
MISSILE LAUNCHES OR REBUKING
ALLIES OR TRYING TO EASE
TENSIONS IN KASHMIR OR TRYING TO
EASE TENSIONS BETWEEN JAPAN AND
SOUTH KOREA.
SOUTH KOREA. INSTEAD, THE MESSAGE THIS
AMERICAN PRESIDENT IS SENDING TO
FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS IS IT’S YOUR
BUSINESS IF YOU WANT TO CRACK
DOWN ON PROTESTERS OR
JOURNALISTS OR SOW
DISINFORMATION.
DISINFORMATION. THE UNWILLINGNESS OF WASHINGTON
TO HELP DIFFUSE FLASH POINTS IS
ONE OF THE CLEAR SIGNS OF THE
EROSION OF AMERICAN POWER AND
GLOBAL INFLUENCE UNDER
MR. TRUMP.
MR. TRUMP. LET ME TURN TO SOME EXPERTS.
WE’LL START WITH DAVID IGNASHOUS
WHO HAS THE TERRIFIC PEACE,
JASON JOHNSON IS POLITICS EDITOR
AT THEROOT.COM.
AT THEROOT.COM. ALL OF THEM ARE MSNBC
CONTRIBUTORS.
CONTRIBUTORS. DAVID, I WANT TO START WITH YOU
BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF
THOSE -- WE’VE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT THIS INSIDE OUR OWN NEWS
ROOM FOR QUITE SOME TIME GOING
THERE IS THIS GIANT FOREIGN
POLICY PROBLEM SITTING AT THE
PRESIDENT’S DESK.
PRESIDENT’S DESK. BUT IT’S HARD TO ARTICULATE
BECAUSE THE PROBLEM IS INACTION.
YOU DID A GOOD JOB OF
ARTICULATING IT IN THIS BIG
PICTURE, BUT THIS ISN’T THE
EASIEST STORY TO EXPLAIN TO THE
PUBLIC.
PUBLIC. EXPLAIN WHAT WE MEAN BY BY
INACTION?
INACTION? >> SO, CHUCK, IT IS A
COMPLICATED WORLD.
COMPLICATED WORLD. TODAY’S A DAY WHEN WE FELT AS IF
THE WORLD WAS ON FIRE.
BUT IT’S A DAY WHEN I WAS
REMINDED THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP’S
RESPONSE TO THE WORLD TO THIS
COMPLICATED DIFFICULT WORLD FROM
THE DAY HE TOOK OFFICE HAS
BASICALLY BEEN RETREAT, HIS
PREFERRED INSTRUMENT IN DEALING
WITH COUNTRIES HE DOESN’T LIKE
IS TO SLAP THEM WITH TARIFFS OR
ECONOMIC SANCTIONS.
ECONOMIC SANCTIONS. HE EXPRESSES NO COMMITMENT TO
THE TRADITIONAL AMERICAN ROLE OF
LEADERSHIP, OF MORAL GUIDANCE.
HE DOESN’T STAND WITH PROTESTERS
IN HONG KONG OR IT SEEMS
ANYWHERE ELSE.
ANYWHERE ELSE. AND I DO THINK WE ARE SEEING
TODAY, IT’S A DAY TO WATCH IT,
THE CONSEQUENCES OF THOSE TWO
YEARS OF RETRENCHMENT OF AMERICA
FIRST, OF SELFISH POLICIES THAT
DON’T REALLY STAND FOR ANYTHING
LARGER THAN OUR OWN PARTICULAR
NATIONAL INTEREST.
NATIONAL INTEREST. WHAT REALLY BOTHERED ME IN MY
COLUMN THIS MORNING, THE CENTRAL
THEME, IS WHERE ARE THE
DEMOCRATS?
DEMOCRATS? HERE IS A PERFECT OPENING FOR
THE DEMOCRATS TO OFFER AN
ALTERNATIVE VISION.
ALTERNATIVE VISION. AS I SAID THIS MORNING WE NEED A
LITTLE MORE JFK LEANING OUT INTO
THIS TROUBLED WORLD AND A LITTLE
LESS DEMOCRATS REPEATING THEY
DON’T WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO
DO WITH TRADE AGREEMENTS, THAT
THEY’RE AS PROTECTIONIST AS
DONALD TRUMP.
DONALD TRUMP. THAT’S NOT THE RIGHT ANSWER,
ESPECIALLY TODAY.
ESPECIALLY TODAY. >> DAVID, LET ME DO THE, WHAT
SOME MAY PUSH BACK ON WHEN THEY
HEAR ALL OF US ARGUING THIS SORT
OF, WELL, AMERICA, WHETHER WE
LIKE IT OR NOT WE ARE THE
WORLD’S POLICEMEN.
WORLD’S POLICEMEN. THEY MAY PUSH BACK AND SAY TO
WHAT END HAS THAT WORKED?
WE LOST BLOOD AND TREASURE IN
AFGHANISTAN.
AFGHANISTAN. WHY SHOULD WE GET INVOLVED,
RIGHT?
RIGHT? THAT IS THE DONALD TRUMP FOREIGN
POLICY PHILOSOPHY.
POLICY PHILOSOPHY. FRANKLY, THAT IS PROBABLY WHERE
40% OF THE COUNTRY SIT ON THESE
ISSUES.
ISSUES. >> SO, PEOPLE ARE RIGHT THAT
THIS IS NOT A MOMENT WHEN WE
SHOULD ENGAGE IN THE SENSE OF
LOOKING FOR NEW WARS OVERSEAS.
I’VE BEEN THINKING THE LAST
COUPLE WEEKS ATTENDING
CONFERENCES ABOUT CHINA AND THE
THREAT THAT CHINA POSES.
THE ANSWER TO THAT CHINESE
CHALLENGE IS TO GET OUR OWN
HOUSE IN ORDER.
EVERY THEME THAT DEMOCRATS
EXPRESS IN THIS CAMPAIGN, YOU
KNOW, IMPROVING OUR SCHOOLS,
MAKING OURSELVES A MORE
INCLUSIVE, DIVERSE AND WELCOMING
COUNTRY MAKES SENSE IN
PARTICULAR IN THE CONTEXT OF
HAVING A STRONGER COUNTRY AND
POLITICAL SYSTEM THAT WORKS TO
PUSH BACK AGAINST A RISING CHINA
THAT, THROUGH THE REST OF OUR
LIFETIMES, YOU AND ME AND OUR
CHILDREN, TOO, IS GOING TO BE
PROBABLY THE BIGGEST THING WE
HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT.
SO IT’S NOT THAT WE WANT TO GO
BACK TO JFK, PAY ANY PRICE, YOU
KNOW, WITH TROOFS ALL OVER THE
WORLD.
WORLD. IT’S TO BEGIN SOLVING THE
PROBLEMS, BEING STRONGER AND
MORE UNIFIED AND THEN BEING ABLE
TO COMPETE BETTER.
>> I WANT TO UNPACK TWO THINGS
THAT YOU INTRODUCED HERE WITH
THESE FOLKS HERE.
ONE IS THE CHINA STORY, AND I
WANT TO GET THAT IN A SECOND.
BUT, MICHAEL, LET ME START WITH
YOU.
YOU. IF THERE IS ONE RHETORICAL AREA
LEFT THAT REPUBLICANS WILL
CONTRADICT THIS PRESIDENT ON, IT
IS APPARENTLY IT IS STILL
FOREIGN POLICY.
FOREIGN POLICY. HERE’S KEVIN McCARTHY, WHO IS
BASICALLY WITH TRUMP NOW ON MOST
THINGS.
THINGS. AND HE SAID TO THE THOUSANDS OF
YOUNG PEOPLE IN HONG KONG WHO
ARE SPEAKING UP FOR HUMAN RIGHTS
AND SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THE
COMMUNIST PARTY OF CHINA.
THAT IS THE HOUSE MINORITY
LEADER OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY,
NOT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES.
STATES. >> SO, I MEAN -- DOES THIS
MATTER THAT --
>> IT DOESN’T MATTER BECAUSE
FIRST OFF, IT’S BEEN A MAJORITY
OF THE LEADERS, NOT THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
SO WHETHER YOU HAVE LINDSAY
GRAHAM OR KEVIN McCARTHY OR ANY
OF THESE OTHERS AND WE LOVE THEM
TO FILL THE SPACE WITH THAT
NOISE, BUT IT MATTERS THAT THE
PRESIDENT IS NOT WITH THEM ON
THIS.
THIS. HE’S NOT LEADING WITH THAT.
THAT WASN’T HIS TWEET.
THAT WAS NOT THE PRESIDENT’S
TWEET.
TWEET. IF THE PRESIDENT HAD TWEETED
THAT, WE’D BE IN A WHOLE
DIFFERENT CONVERSATION RIGHT
NOW.
NOW. AND I THINK THE WORLD WOULD LOOK
AT THIS A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.
>> SEE, THAT SEEMS TO BE -- THIS
REPUBLICAN PARTY, WE KNOW THEY
DON’T LIKE THE TARIFF FRONT.
THEY HAVE DECIDED NOT TO SAY
ANYTHING.
ANYTHING. THEY DON’T LIKE HIS FOREIGN
POLICY, BUT THEY DON’T KNOW HOW
TO CRITICIZE.
TO CRITICIZE. >> THERE’S A SLIGHTLY HIGHER
COMFORT LEVEL WITHIN THE GOP.
AND WE’VE SEEN McCARTHY NOT GO
AFTER THE PRESIDENT BUT JUST
SOMETHING THAT DOESN’T DIRECTLY
CONTRADICT OR PUSH BACK AGAINST
WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID.
PART OF THE REASON THAT THIS
CONVERSATION IS IMPORTANT AND
THAT REPUBLICANS ARE AT ODDS
WITH THE PRESIDENT IN MANY WAY,
PARTICULARLY MEMBERS LIKE MARCO
RUBIO, IS THAT THE ISSUE IN HONG
KONG IS PREDOMINANTLY ABOUT
HUMAN RIGHTS.
HUMAN RIGHTS. THOSE ARE VERY LOW ON THE
PRIORITY LIST FOR THIS
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. >> AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM.
I KEEP COMING BACK TO THIS
PHRASE.
PHRASE. WHEN I HEAR THE PHRASE AMERICAN
EXCEPTIONALISM, MEANS WE ARE THE
ONES THAT IDENTIFY THE GOOD GUYS
AND PUNISH THE BAD GUYS.
>> THEY’RE NOT JUST SINGING THE
NATIONAL ANTHEM IN CHINA.
THEY ARE SINGING SONGS FROM
HAMILTON.
HAMILTON. THEY ARE SINGING "CAN YOU HEAR
THE PEOPLE SING."
>> THAT’S "LE MIS."
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> THIS IS THE POINT WHERE THE
REAL DANGER HERE AND THE
PRESIDENT NOT SPEAKING UP IS
WHEN THAT VACUUM IS OPEN, THEN
THESE DEMOCRACY FORCES, THEY
BECOME RADICALIZED.
BECOME RADICALIZED. THEY’RE WAITING FOR US TO COME
IN AND SAY, LOOK, WE HAVE YOUR
BACK.
BACK. YOU CAN PUSH THINGS A LITTLE BIT
FARTHER NOW BECAUSE WE’RE THERE.
IF YOU HAVE DISSIDENCE, WE’LL
STEP IN.
STEP IN. >> DAVID, CAN YOU EXPLAIN, YOU
KNOW, I DON’T THINK IT’S AN
ACCIDENT THAT MODY DID WHAT HE
DID IN INDIA WITH KASHMIR.
I DON’T THINK IT’S AN ACCIDENT
WHAT WE’VE SEEN WITH JAPAN AND
SOUTH KOREA THAT WITHOUT AN
AMERICAN PRESIDENT TO BE THERE
TO SORT OF TO LEAN ON, I’M
THINKING ABOUT DOING THIS, YOU
KNOW, MODY, I’M IN THE MIDDLE OF
CHINA, GET OUT OF AFGHANISTAN,
WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON
THERE, I DON’T NEED THIS NOW,
HOW MUCH OF THIS DO YOU THINK IS
HAPPENING BECAUSE WE JUST WALKED
AWAY FOR NOW?
>> WHEN AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT IS
NOT PREPARED TO BE A
FORWARD-LEANING GLOBAL LEADER,
MISCHIEF HAPPENS.
MISCHIEF HAPPENS. IN AN AMERICA FIRST WORLD WHERE
THE ORGANIZING PRINCIPLE OF
FOREIGN POLICY IS JUST
SELFISHNESS, INDIA IS GOING TO
DECIDE, MODY IS GOING TO DECIDE
INDIA FIRST.
INDIA FIRST. HE’S GOING TO GO AFTER HIS
TRADITIONAL VIEW THAT KASHMIR
MUST BE SUPPRESSED.
YOU ARE GOING TO FIND THAT ALL
OVER THE WORLD PEOPLE WILL PUT
THEIR OWN SMALL NATIONAL
INTERESTS FIRST, AND DONALD
TRUMP SIMPLY ISN’T A CREDIBLE
ARBITER.
ARBITER. IN THE CASE OF INDIA AND ITS
MOVES IN KASHMIR, I HAVE A
PARTICULAR WORRY THAT DONALD
TRUMP HELPED GET THIS GOING WITH
SOME VERY AND PRUDENT
OFF-THE-CUFF COMMENTS DURING THE
VISIT OF THE PAKISTANI PRIME
MINISTER WHO KIND OF
GRATUITOUSLY THREW OUT THE IDEA
THAT WE’D BE A MODERATOR.
BUT THE BASIC POINT THAT YOU
MAKE THAT WHEN WE DON’T HAVE
STRONG AMERICAN LEADERSHIP,
JAPAN AND SOUTH KOREA FALL INTO
THEIR TRADITIONAL NATIONAL
RIVALRY, AND THERE’S NO AMERICA
THAT’S A CREDIBLE PEACEKEEPER,
IF YOU WILL, NOT MILITARILY BUT
DIPLOMATICALLY.
DIPLOMATICALLY. >> ALL RIGHT.
I’M GOING TO DIG DEEPER IN THIS
CONVERSATION ON THE POLITICAL
SIDE OF THINGS WITH BEN RHODES,
LIKE HOW DID THE DEMOCRATS DO
THIS.
THIS. BETSY, IS IT WORTH THEM MAKING
THIS CASE OR NOT?
BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF
PEOPLE LIKE, NO, NO, NO, FOCUS
ON HOME, FOCUS DOMESTIC.
MAYBE THEY DON’T WANT AMERICA
FIRST, BUT THEY WANT YOUR EYE ON
THE DOMESTIC BALL.
>> THE REALITY IS THAT MOST
SWING VOTERS ARE NOT GOING TO
VOTE BASED ON WHAT’S HAPPENING
IN HONG KONG.
THEY AREN’T REALLY GOING TO VOTE
BASED ON THE IRAN DEAL.
BUT WHAT THIS PROVIDES AS AN
OPPORTUNITY FOR THESE DEMOCRATIC
CANDIDATES IS A MOMENT TO BE
PART OF THIS NATIONAL
CONVERSATION AND TO PRESENT MORE
OF A CONTRAST WITH THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. SO EVEN THOUGH THEY PROBABLY
AREN’T GOING TO SEE THEIR POLL
NUMBERS CHANGE IN SOUTH CAROLINA
OR IOWA BASED ON THE MESSAGES
AND THE TWEETS THAT THEY PUT OUT
ABOUT HONG KONG, WHAT THEY CAN
DO IS PAINT A MORE STARK PICTURE
OF HOW THE UNITED STATES CAN
WORK DIFFERENTLY UNDER THEIR
LEADERSHIP.
LEADERSHIP. >> ALL RIGHT.
BUT, JASON, I AM CURIOUS HOW
DO -- I THINK THIS CHINA ISSUE
IS COMPLICATED FOR DEMOCRATS.
THEY DON’T KNOW HOW TO BASICALLY
SAY HE’S MISMANAGING IT.
EVEN THOUGH WE AGREE WE GOT TO
GET TOUGH ON CHINA.
LIKE, OKAY.
LIKE, OKAY. WELL, YOU’RE AT LEAST ON THE
SAME SIDE.
SAME SIDE. LIKE, IT’S HARD.
>> THE PEOPLE WHO WEREN’T
WORKING AT THE CHEVY CRUISE
STATION IN YOUNGSTOWN OHIO DON’T
GET IT.
GET IT. MAYOR PETE OR JOE BIDEN WOULD
LOVE THIS DEBATE.
THEY ARE THE TWO WHO CAN STEP
FORWARD AND, LOOK, I HAVE
EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA, I HAVE
BEEN VICE PRESIDENT, I HAVE
SERVED OVERSEAS, THIS IS A HOT
POTATO FOR THE REST OF THE
DEMOCRATS.
DEMOCRATS. GIVEN SOME OF THEIR OWN
WEAKNESSES, I DON’T THINK THEY’D
WANT TO TOUCH IT.
>> THE OTHER POINT OF ENTRY FOR
DEMOCRATS SAY THAT OUR PARTY
TRADITIONICALLY AGREES, AND WHEN
IT COMES TO HUMAN RIGHTS STUFF,
THEY CAN ACTUALLY POSITION
THEMSELVES AS TOUGHER ON CHINA
THAN TRUMP.
THAN TRUMP. IT’S THE ONLY SECTOR OF THE
CHINA CONVERSATION.
CHINA CONVERSATION. >> TO GO WITH HUMAN RIKTS
RIGHTS.
RIGHTS. >> I THINK YOU LAID IT OUT JUST
NOW.
NOW. WE SUPPORT THIS EFFORT TO REIGN
CHINA IN.
CHINA IN. BUT HERE IS THE LIMIT OF THAT.
AND A LACK OF LEADERSHIP BEYOND
THAT BY THIS PRESIDENT IS
CAUSING THESE PARTICULAR
PROBLEMS.
PROBLEMS. SO THEY CAN IDENTIFY THAT THEY
JUST NEED TO STEP INTO THE GAME.
>> DAVID, I AM GOING TO ASK YOU
THE QUESTION THAT YOU MAY FEEL
IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ANSWER, BUT
WHERE DOES HONG KONG GO NEXT?
>> WELL, SO, THERE HAVE BEEN
SIGNS THAT THE PROTESTERS
REALIZE THAT THEY MAY HAVE GONE
TOO FAR, MAY BE ALIENATING
SUPPORT IN HONG KONG BY SOME
RECENT ACTIONS.
RECENT ACTIONS. I THINK CHINA IS GOING TO BE
VERY RELUCTANT TO SEND IN
TROOPS, THE TROOPS HAVE BEEN
MASSING JUST OVER THE BORDER.
BUT I’VE BEEN TALKING HERE AT A
CONFERENCE IN LA JOLLA,
CALIFORNIA, WITH EXPERTS WHO
KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT CHINA AND
HONG KONG, AND THEY SAY CHINA IS
GOING TO BE VERY CAREFUL.
THE ONE POINT I’D MAKE ABOUT
TRUMP’S STATEMENTS, THERE’S A
MORAL HAZARD PROBLEM HERE.
WE DON’T WANT TO IMPLY TO THOSE
PROTESTERS IN THE STREETS THAT
WE’LL COME IN TO HELP THEM IF
THE TROOPS COME OUT BECAUSE
THAT’S CLEARLY NOT TRUE.
BUT WE DO WANT TO SAY THAT THE
WORLD IS WATCHING THAT THESE
DISPUTES SHOULD BE SOLVED
WITHOUT RESORT TO FORCE.
THAT’S A STANDARD LINE FOR AN
AMERICAN PRESIDENT.
AMERICAN PRESIDENT. AND I HONESTLY HAVE BEEN SHOCKED
THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS NOT
SAID THAT BASIC THING.
HE’S ALMOST SEEMED TO BE
INVITING THEM TO COME IN AND
CRACK DOWN.
CRACK DOWN. HE NEEDS TO SAY THE WORLD IS
WATCHING.
WATCHING. WE EXPECT THIS TO BE RESOLVED
WITHOUT VIOLENCE, AND, YOU KNOW,
I THINK THOSE STUDENTS THAT ARE
SINGING THE AMERICAN SONGS, THAT
WILL REALLY RESONATE IN THE
CAMPAIGN IF TRUMP DOESN’T DO
SOMETHING.
SOMETHING. >> BOY, IT’S INTERESTING YOU SAY
THAT.
THAT. IT DOES FEEL ALMOST AS IF HE
WANTS TO BAIT THE CHINESE TO
OVERSTEP.
OVERSTEP. ALL RIGHT, DAVID IGNATIUS, YOU