ELLIS PODCAST" IS OUT ON
PATREON.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE, SIR.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME, ARI.
>> WHEN YOU WROTE THIS, TRUMP
WAS A LARGE FIGURE IN THE STORY
IF NOT IN AMERICAN POLITICS.
WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT, AND WHAT DO
YOU THINK IT MEANS THAT HE HAS
GOTTEN ONLY BIGGER?
>> WELL, I DIDN’T EXPECT TO PUT
HIM INTO THE BOOK "AMERICAN
PSYCHO" UNTIL I WAS DOING
RESEARCH ON THE BOOK AND I WAS
HANGING OUT WITH A LOT OF YOUNG
GUYS WHO WERE WORKING ON WALL
STREET IN 1986, ’87, ’88.
AND ONE OF THE MOST SURPRISING
THINGS WAS THAT THEY ALL WERE IN
LOVE WITH DONALD TRUMP.
IT WAS SOMEONE THEY ASPIRED TO
BE.
AND SO I REALIZED THAT IN ORDER
TO GET THIS PERIOD CORRECTLY
THAT MY NARRATOR, PATRICK
BATEMAN, WAS PROBABLY GOING TO
BE REFERENCING DONALD TRUMP A
LOT.
IN TERMS OF BEING AN AUTHENTIC
DOCUMENTATION OF THAT PERIOD
DONALD TRUMP JUST HAD TO BE A
PART OF THAT WORLD.
AND I REALLY DON’T SEE MYSELF AS
PARTICULARLY PRESCIENT.
I JUST SAWWALLPAPER, HIS
NAME ALL OVER THE PLACE THAT
COULD GIVE THIS BOOK AND THE
STORY, A JOLT OF AUTHENTICITY.
>> THE REASON THE "AMERICAN
PSYCHO" CONNECTS WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE, IT’S A BIT LIKE "CATCHER
PEOPLE, IT’S A BIT LIKE "CATCHER
IN A RYE," IT IS A BIT OF ALIEN
ALIENANI
ALIENANION THAT PEOPLE RELATE
TO.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE WAY
WE’RE ALL LIVING IN THAT NOW?
>> WELL, LOOK, AT THE TIME, I
MEAN, WHEN I WAS WRITING
"AMERICAN PSYCHO," THIS WAS THE
HYPE OF WHAT WAS YUPPIE CULTURE.
AND PART OF THE THING THAT
BOTHERED ME ABOUT BEING A YOUNG
MAN MYSELF IN THAT ENVIRONMENT
WAS THAT I RESENTED IT.
I RESENTED THE IDEA THEY HAD TO
LIVE IN THIS SOCIETY, AND YET, THERE WAS NOWHERE ELSE TO GO.
THERE WAS NOWHERE ELSE TO GO.
SO IT DULLED MY ALIENATION AT
THE MOMENT.
AND THE REASON IT LASTED AS LONG
AS IT IS, AND THE BOOK IS STILL
IN PRINT, AND PEOPLE WATCH THE
MOVIE.
THEY HAVE TO IDENTIFY WITH
PATRICK BATEMAN.
HE MIGHT PRESENT HIMSELF AS A
SERIAL KILLER AND HE IS RACE ICK
AND HOMOPHOBIC, BUT THERE IS
SOMETHING ABOUT HIM, THAT IS
ULTIMATELY THE REASON WHY HE
HAS -- HE HAS SUCH STAYING
POWER.
IS SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.
YOU ARE TRAPPED IN A SOCIETY YOU
DON’T BELIEVE IN, AND YOU HAVE
NOWHERE ELSE TO GO, AND YOU WANT
TO FIT IN, AND AS IT HAPPENS,
YOU GO INSANE.
>> I KEPT UP WITH YOUR RECENT
WRITING.
YOU ARE CONCERNED THAT AMERICA IS BECOMING MORE CLOSE MINDED
IS BECOMING MORE CLOSE MINDED
EVEN OR ESPECIALLY ON THE LEFT.
EXPLAIN.
>> I THINK WHAT IS MISSING, WE
HAVE LOST TRACK OF MET APHOR.
WE ONLY SEE THE SURFACE OF
THINGS.
I DON’T KNOW IF IT’S NECESSARILY
JUST ON THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT.
I TRY TO BE NONPARTISAN ABOUT
THIS.
I’M A WRITER, AN AUTHOR, AND
NOVELIST AND I DON’T WANT TO
TAKE POLITICAL SCIENCE ON THAT
LEVEL.
BUT THERE IS SOMETHING GOING ON
NOW THAT IS VERY IDEOLOGICAL AND
IT SEEMS TO ME AGAINST
AESTHETICS.
SO I THINK THE IDEA NOW THAT ART
HAS TO BE CREATED TO SMOOTH
PEOPLE’S SENSITIVITIES OR MAKE
THEM FEEL BETTER ABOUT
THEMSELVES OR SOMETHING THEY CAN
RELATE TO OR IDENTIFY WITH IS A
REAL PROBLEM.
IN CREATION OF ART OR JUST BEING
AN ARTIST AND HOW YOU WANT TO
REPRESENT YOURSELF.
THAT DOES CONCERN ME.
>> IS IT THE WRONG QUESTION WHEN
PEOPLE ASK TODAY, DOES THIS
ARTIST HAVE THE RIGHT POINT OF
VIEW?
IN OTHER WORDS, I WILL PAK JICK
JEWISH EXAMPLE.
THE ARTIST IS GIVEN MORE ROOM ON
A WRONG VIEW.
IS THAT AN INCORRECT THRESHOLD
TEST FOR THE ART WE RECEIVE?
>> WELL, WHAT IS THE WRONG VIEW?
WHAT IS THE RIGHT VIEW.
THERE ARE PLENTY OF JEWISH
PEOPLE I KNOW THAT HAD MASSIVE
PROBLEMS WITH SCHINDLER’S LIST,
THE STEVEN SPIELBERG MOVIE.
AND YOU THINK THAT ANY ART IN
THAT PERIOD IS A TERRIBLE THING
TO REENACT AND FILM.
I DON’T THINK THAT ART SHOULD
WORK AT THAT LEVEL.
SHUT ALL BE ABOUT AESTHETICS,
AND IT’S REALLY WHAT SHOULD YOU
RESPOND TO.
THE STYLE OF SOMETHING, HOW IT’S
SHOT OR HOW IT’S WRITTEN, AND
NOT NECESSARILY AUTOMATICALLY
RESPOND TO IT ON THE IDEOLOGICAL
OR POLITICAL LEVEL.
BUT THAT IS HAPPENING NOW.
I JUST DON’T BELIEVE THERE ARE
CERTAIN THINGS YOU CAN SAY AND
YOU CAN’T SAY.
AND THAT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING
THAT IS COMING FROM THE LEFT
UNFORTUNATELY UNTIL THE LAST
THREE OR FOUR YEARS.
MAYBE THAT WILL CHANGE.
MAYBE THERE WILL BE A SWITCH
FROM THAT.
BUT ALL THE DOS AND DON’TS, AND
SO ON AND SO FORTH THERE ARE
REAL LIMITATIONS TO AN ARTIST,
AND I AM SOMETIMES BAUF THEED
THAT
THAT ARTISTS GO ALONG WITH IT.
>> DO YOU WANT POLITICS TO BE IN
CONTROL OF ART BECAUSE POLITICS
MAKES A LOT OF MISTAKES?
I ONLY HAVE A MINUTE LEFT.
THE LAST THING I HAVE TO ASK YOU
ABOUT.
YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS?
>> NO, I DON’T.
WHAT IS IT?
>> IT’S KANYE, YOUR KINDRED
SPIRIT.
TELL US ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP?
AND WILL YOU GUYS EVER MAKE ANY
NEW PROJECT OR ART TOGETHER?
HE HAS SPOKEN OUT AS A FAN OF
YOUR ART?
>> I HAVE WORKED WITH KANYE ON A
NUMBER OF PROJECTS THAT DIDN’T
HAPPEN.
THE
THE LAST CHAPTER IS ABOUT MY
RELATIONSHIP WITH KANYE.
I DON’T REGRET A SING THE MOMENT
HAVE SPEND WITH KANYE.
I SAID, YOU KNOW, I’M GOING TO
SEE WHERE THE RIDE TAKES ME AND
IT TOOK ME TO VERY INTERESTING
PLACES.
>> I LOVE THAT, AND I THINK YOU
LOVE OLD KANYE, NEW KANYE.
YOU’RE NOT ONE OF THE PEOPLE
DEMANDING ONLY A CALM YE.