>>> A GLOBALIST IS A PERSON THAT WANTS THE GLOBE TO DO WELL.
FRANKLY NOT CARING ABOUT OUR
COUNTRY SO MUCH.
YOU KNOW WHAT, WE CAN’T HAVE
THAT.
THAT. YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A WORD.
IT SORT OF BECAME OLD-FASHIONED.
IT’S CALLED A NATIONALIST.
AND I SAY, REALLY, WE’RE NOT
SUPPOSED TO USE THAT WORD.
YOU KNOW WHAT I AM, I’M A
NATIONALIST, OKAY, I’M A
NATIONALIST.
NATIONALIST. NATIONALIST.
NATIONALIST. USE THAT WORD.
>> OKAY.
>> OKAY. SO PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS US ALL
TO CALL HIM A NATIONALIST.
AND NOT A GLOBALIST.
I WANT TO BREAK THIS DOWN FOR
YOU.
YOU. DEFINES GLOBALISM AS A NATIONAL
POLICY OF TREATING THE WHOLE
WORLD AS A PROPER SPHERE FOR
POLITICAL INFLUENCE.
POLITICAL INFLUENCE. MANY TRUMP BACKERS THINK
GLOBALISM IS A BAD THING.
A NATIONALIST BELIEVES IN
NATIONALISM.
NATIONALISM. DEFINING IT AS THE IDEA THAT IS
BASED ON THE PROMISE THAT THE
INDIVIDUAL’S LOYALTY AND THE
DEVOTION TO THE NATIONAL STATE.
WHITE NATIONALIST, THAT’S A VERY
DIFFERENT THING.
DIFFERENT THING. THE DEFINITION DEFINES A WHITE
NATIONALIST AS ONE OF A GROUP OF
MILITANT WHITES WHO ESPOUSE
WHITE SUPREMACY AND ADVOCATE
ENFORCED RACIAL SEGREGATION.
ALSO KNOWN AS RACIST.
I THINK DONALD TRUMP KNOWS THAT.
IT’S A BIT OF A DOG WHISTLE OR
MAYBE A SINGLE TO WHITE
NATIONALISTS THAT HE SUPPORTS
THEIR GOALS OR WAS IT SIMPLY
HE’S CONFUSING NATIONALISM WITH
PATRIOTISM
PATRIOTISM PATRIOTISM.
PATRIOTISM. SIMPLY PUT, IS THIS, LOVE FOR OR
DEVOTION TO ONE’S COUNTRY.
THAT’S AN ADMIRABLE GOAL.
MAYBE WE JUST TAKE THE PRESIDENT
AT HIS WORD.
HE BELIEVES NATIONALISM IS BASED
ON THE PROMISE THAT THE
INDIVIDUAL’S LOYALTY AND
DEVOTION TO THE NATION STATE
SURPASSES OTHER INDIVIDUAL OR
GROUP INTERESTS.
GROUP INTERESTS. THAT, IF YOU TAKE THE PRESIDENT
AT HIS WORD WOULD EXPLAIN HIS
TRADE WAR, HIS SENSE THAT THE
U.S. SHOULDN’T POLICE THE WORLD
AND HIS CALL TO SEAL OFF THE
SOUTHERN BORDER.
SOUTHERN BORDER. HIS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT LIMITING
LEGAL IMMIGRATION INTO THE
UNITED STATES.
UNITED STATES. I WANT TO DISCUSS THIS.
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE
PRESIDENT MEANS.
PRESIDENT MEANS. I WOULD THINK TWICE BEFORE
CALLING MYSELF A NATIONALIST,
PARTICULARLY IN THIS POLITICAL
ENVIRONMENT.
ENVIRONMENT. OUR GUEST IS A FORMER U.S. AM
ALWAYS ABOUT DOOR
AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA.
WHO UNDERSTANDS THE PLACES IN
WHICH NATIONALISM CAN BE
DANGEROUS.
DANGEROUS. IT’S A DIFFERENT THING THAN
PATRIOTISM, AMBASSADOR.
PATRIOTISM, AMBASSADOR. >> IT IS.
>> IT IS. JUST A SIMPLE TEST.
JUST WHEN YOU SAY "THAT PERSON
IS A NATIONALIST."
WHAT ARE THE HISTORIC FIGURINGS
THAT POP INTO YOUR HEAD?
YOU DON’T HAVE TO ANSWER RIGHT
NOW BUT TO YOUR VIEWERS, JUST
THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT WORD DOES.
YOUR NOTION OF A DOG WHISTLE.
WHO POPS IN YOUR MIND WHEN YOU
HEAR THE WORD "NATIONALIST"?
AND I THINK IT’S VERY IMPORTANT,
THE DISTINCTION YOU JUST MADE
BETWEEN PAT THROWRIOTPATRIOTISM.
WE TEACH THE DIFFERENCE.
PATRIOTISM IS ABOUT CIVIC
NATIONALISM.
NATIONALISM. I HAVE A FLAG IN FRONT OF MY
HOUSE.
HOUSE. I’M A PROUD AMERICAN.
I WANT TO SEE AMERICA PERFORM
WELL.
WELL. BUT AN ETHNIC NATIONALISM
DIVIDES OUR COUNTRY.
WHEN I WAS LISTENING TO THE
PRESIDENT, I HEARD HIM SPEAKING
IN ETHNIC TERMS.
THERE’S ONE OTHER THING ABOUT
GLOBALISM.
GLOBALISM. HE SOMEHOW HAS A THEORY THAT ANY
TIME WE ENTER INTO AN
INTERNATIONAL TREATY OR
COOPERATE WITH ANOTHER COUNTRY,
IT’S AGAINST AMERICA.
AND THAT’S JUST NOT HISTORICALLY
TRUE.
TRUE. WE DON’T SIGN UP FOR TREATIES TO
HELP THE GLOBE.
WE SIGN UP TO TREATIES AND
COOPERATE WITH OTHER NATIONS TO
ADVANCE AMERICAN NATIONAL
INTERESTS THROUGH COOPERATION
RATHER THAN THROUGH
CONFRONTATION.
CONFRONTATION. SO HE’S JUST DEAD WRONG ABOUT
HIS THEORY OF GLOBALISM VERSUS
NATIONALISM.
NATIONALISM. >> YOU COULD ACTUALLY BE A CIVIC
NATIONALIST, A PATRIOT AND A
GLOBALIST ALL AT THE SAME TIME?
>> OF COURSE.
OF COURSE.
OF COURSE. DID RONALD REAGAN SIGN THE IMF
TREATY BECAUSE HE WAS A
GLOBALIST?
GLOBALIST? DID TRUMAN AND HIS COLLEAGUES
SIGN UP FOR NATO AND THE IMF AND
WORLD BANK BECAUSE THEY WANTED
TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER
PLACE?
PLACE? NO.
NO. DID OBAMA SIGN THE PARIS CLIMATE
ACCORDS BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO
HELP OUT THE FRENCH OR THE
CHINESE?
CHINESE? NO.
NO. THEY WERE ALL DOING IT TO
ADVANCE AMERICAN NATIONAL
INTERESTS.
INTERESTS. THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT ALL THOSE
LEADERS AND THROUGHOUT DECADES
OF OUR HISTORY, WE THOUGHT WE
COULD GET AHEAD BY COOPERATION.
AS OPPOSED TO GOING OUR OWN WAY.
LET ME USE A SIMPLE ANALOGY THAT
DEMONSTRATES HOW RULES CAN HELP
US.
US. THINK ABOUT THIS.
WHAT IF IN THE NAME OF
NATIONALISM AND GOING OUR OWN
WAY IF ALL AMERICANS DECIDED,
I’M JUST GOING TO DRIVE ON
WHATEVER SIDE OF THE ROAD I WANT
BECAUSE I WANT TO BE INDEPENDENT
OF THE RULES.
HOW ABSURD WOULD THAT BE?
BY SIMPLY SAYING WE’RE ALL GOING
TO DRIVE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF
THE ROAD, IT MAKES YOU BETTER
OFF AND CITIZENS BETTER OFF.
THAT’S THE BASIC CONCEPT.
COOPERATION TO MAKE US WIN
OUTCOMES THAT EVERYBODY WHO
SIGNS UP IS BETTER OFF.
>> THERE’S A MOVEMENT AROUND THE
WORLD WHICH HAS REPEATED ITSELF
BECAUSE WE’VE SEEN MOVEMENTS IN
THE 20s, IN THE ’30s IN EUROPE,
WE SAW THEM IN RWANDA, WE SAW
THEM IN THE BALKANS, WE’VE SEEN
THEM ALL OVER.
IN WHICH NATIONALISM IS EQUATED
WITH A NATIVISM OR A POPULISM
THAT IS ANTI-OTHER,
ANTI-IMMIGRANT, THAT FOCUSES ON
ECONOMIC TRIBULATIONS AND MAKES
PEOPLE THINK IF YOU DON’T LOOK
AFTER YOURSELF AND CLOSE OUT THE
HOUSE, OTHERS WILL TAKE YOUR
PROSPERITY FROM YOU.
>> THAT’S RIGHT, OF COURSE, AND
REMEMBER HOW ALL THAT -- THE 20s
AND 30s ENDED, VERY TRAGICALLY.
REMEMBER TWO THINGS ABOUT THAT.
ONE, IT WAS A PERIOD OF
ISOLATION, RIGHT, PULLING IN,
DISENGAGING, AND THAT WAS
HORRIBLE IN TERMS OF LEADING TO
WORLD WAR II.
REMEMBER, ALSO, WHEN YOU TALK IN
ETHNIC NATIONALIST TERMS IN MOST
PLACES IN THE WORLD, INCLUDING
IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
YOU’RE NOT UNITING THE NATION,
YOU’RE ACTUALLY DIVIDING THE
NATION.
NATION. AND IN THOSE OTHER HISTORIC
EXAMPLES THAT YOU JUST TALKED
ABOUT, PROMOTING NATIONALISM LED
TO CIVIL WAR AND SOMETIMES
GENOCIDAL CIVIL WAR.
>> THAT IS RIGHT.
>> THAT IS NOT A PATRIOTIC WAY